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Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

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  • Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

    Thanks for leading last night mate. It felt like you were pulling teeth out at times trying to get people organised and I feel your frustration. Having a server open to the public does have its problems - I think some gyuys jump on and don't expect organised gameplay and maybe feel out of water - I don't know but being a SL is great when we're all working together.

    We also need more people to step up and do it and appreciate those that do. I think people think that if it goes badly for them, people will think poorly of them and puts them off SL'ing.

    This is not the case. There are enough regulars here that will appreciate your efforts even if the mission goes fubar. As a SL, you are not responsible for people not following your orders. You cannot stop people from running off on their own. The basics of SL'ing are come up with a plan, tell everyone what to do and then execute it.

    There are people who are prepared to do it but unfortunately not that many. For those of us that do step up, we don't always want to. SL'ing every mission can become tiresome because regular SL'ers do like to just play sometimes.

    SL'ing isn't that hard and it's not going to kill you if the mission fails (just blame your fire team leaders anyway lol ;)). When it goes right though, it's very rewarding. It's also something you learn as the more you do it. You don't jump in a helo and expect to fly it straight away, it takes practice to gain a proficiency - same goes with SL'ing, you'll learn more the more you do it.


    Fire Team Leaders

    FTL's report to the squad leader. If you're in the FTL position then you are responsible for your part of the squad. All your team should be following you, and you are following the orders of the Squad Leader. Right off the bat, as soon as the mission starts the FTL should have his team with him and organised. Arma has group VON which will talk to your group only (i.e. your Fire Team). This allows for much better organisation as the SL only has to talk to his FTL'ers and then the FTL'ers makes sure his FT executes the orders given by the SL'er - this is simple - it was designed to be simple so orders can be executed with the minimum of fuss.

    Taking the FTL slot is a good start to becomming a Squad Leader. When you spawn in, you shouldn't have to organise your FT - they should find you and be waiting for your orders as pased down by the Squad Leader. The SL orders might be to move to point A - your task is to organise your FT to get there so you might want to think about formation, who to put on point, etc. If someone decides to run off on their own, shoot them! (well it did used to happen here at TG in the Ghost Recon days from time to time ;)).


    I hope that clarifies things a little. The whole process has been designed by the army to be simple and this is a simplified overview. It would be great to see more Squad Leaders stepping up and less of seeing people jumping out of FTL slots because they don't wish to lead. Of course I appreciate that a lot of people say they don't have mics and if you don't have one (I mean really don't ;)), then you cannot really take an SL or FTL position. BTW, That isn't an endorsement to not by a mic for $/4.99 :)

    Right, I'm off to jump back on the server.
    Jex.


  • #2
    Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

    thanx to Bob (and EVERYONE) for putting up with a noob like myself. yesterday was my first time playing arma, and i was/am still figuring it all out.

    i look forward to getting on with you guys again soon. :D

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    • #3
      Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

      Great post Jex.
      Thanks to everyone that makes the effort to get us organised. There is many people I should thank, but the first name that came to my mind is Grunt. I'm pretty sure he would like to take a break from SL'ing but does it anyway. thanks man!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

        It's extremely frustrating and jading to try and lead a squad that doesn't follow orders. I had a pretty terrible experience when I tried to lead one the other night with a 30-second attention span. Before I could even make a plan they were running off in every direction, deleting my markers, then complaining they had no leader and no direction.

        For me, the most frustrating factor is that no one ever wants to lead. And then when you step up to take responsibility, they don't want to listen to you or they second guess what you're saying. I'm sorry to sound crass, but if you want to run the operation, step up and do it. We could use more leaders. Otherwise STFU, sit tight for 30-seconds, and follow the plan. If that's not the type of gameplay you like then find a new server.

        I think we should password the server everyday too. Because it's the most popular public server, everyone is joining it w/o even knowing what TG is about. I feel like it's greatly dissolving our gameplay and ideals.

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        • #5
          Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

          Administrating the servers similar to how the PR ones have been done in the past would go a long way towards encouraging teamwork. Basically, if someone is not following orders, they get a warning, maybe a second warning, and then they can go find another server to play on. The times that I have been on, this has seemingly been only occasionally enforced, which causes problems for those who are playing for the team aspect of it.

          Back when 1.11 had first come out for the public, I spent a few hours on the TG server, with a lot of that being as a squad or section leader, and there were a few instances of people hopping onto the server who had no intentions of playing as a team. Unfortunately, the admin at the time was AFK and nothing could be done about it. I simply told my squads that the lone-wolves were not our concern, and if our ordnance happened to hit them, that was their own fault for not working with us. ;)

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          • #6
            Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

            I feel the lack of organizational and disciplinary tools in ArmA has always been a factor in preventing from more public servers to play organized and tactical (fortunately good in game VON is now available).

            Even if there is an admin around it can be a pretty daunting task to keep a whole public server population in check. Would be nice if trusted players could be given the ability as a SL to discipline people in their squad not following orders (make them sit, send them a personal text warning in the middle of the screen, what ever works best). Of course you want to try to avoid abuse so the admin can set which players can have this ability.

            This would be just one of many things that could make playing organized more logical and workable on public servers.
            Last edited by Taxi; 04-07-2008, 11:31 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

              Originally posted by vanity11 View Post
              It's extremely frustrating and jading to try and lead a squad that doesn't follow orders. I had a pretty terrible experience when I tried to lead one the other night with a 30-second attention span. Before I could even make a plan they were running off in every direction, deleting my markers, then complaining they had no leader and no direction.

              For me, the most frustrating factor is that no one ever wants to lead. And then when you step up to take responsibility, they don't want to listen to you or they second guess what you're saying. I'm sorry to sound crass, but if you want to run the operation, step up and do it. We could use more leaders. Otherwise STFU, sit tight for 30-seconds, and follow the plan. If that's not the type of gameplay you like then find a new server.

              I think we should password the server everyday too. Because it's the most popular public server, everyone is joining it w/o even knowing what TG is about. I feel like it's greatly dissolving our gameplay and ideals.
              i agree, in my humble opinion i think you should have designated public nights (maybe one a week) and clearly advertise the fact that if people are interested then they should visit your website.

              if someone cant take a few minutes to check what you guys are all about then in the long run they are unlikely to be the kind of person you want around anyway

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

                Originally posted by Dslyecxi View Post
                Administrating the servers similar to how the PR ones have been there were a few instances of people hopping onto the server who had no intentions of playing as a team.
                i think there is a distinction between playing as a team and using tactics (ideally based on reallife tactics) and discipline to complete your mission

                the type of "winging it" teamwork style of people who have probably watched to many band of brothers episodes is only marginally better than rambo play and a long way of a well drilled, well disciplined infantry unit that is needed if you want to play this game seriously

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                • #9
                  Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

                  Good Post Jex--and Kudo's to both Bob Dob and you for leading so much over the past few days.

                  I believe as we continue to play together each night the lone wolfers and those not wanting to play in an organized fashion will slowly get weeded out. Perhaps some admin action will help on this end too. It's up to us to report problem players if there are no admins about.

                  You guys who are new get some experience leading those FT's and eventually you'll feel comfortable taking on a bigger assignment.

                  Platoon leaders - You should be the last one greening up...Take a few extra minutes at mission start to review the fire teams and how you want to use them in the upcoming mission. Make sure the Fire Team leaders know they are the Fire team leaders and every Fire team leader has a mic. Designate assignments for each fire team. Be clear, concise and above all patient...Though something may seem clear as a bell to you, and you've explained it six times, someone else may not have got it (...which explains why the second Stryker isn't manned and ready when everyone is loaded into the first....(just a random example) Be firm but fair. This is hard to do if you are new to commanding...and if you are...just shout it out...you'll get plenty of help from the TG'ers if that's the case, I'm sure.

                  As more players get used to listening to and following orders some of these problems will go away. We'll have a confident and able player base. But as an open server we'll still get random players not interested in our style of play.

                  I've had some great ARMA sessions over the last few days...Thanks to everyone !!
                  Last edited by Grunt 70; 04-07-2008, 03:30 PM.
                  sigpic
                  |TG-1st|Grunt
                  ARMA Admin (retired)
                  Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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                  • #10
                    Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

                    I'm thinking that since I wrote this post, public executions of those who don't listen is granted ;)

                    Actually I have a couple of points that I'd like to reinforce from some posts above.

                    Fire Team Leaders.

                    To me it is vitally important to have FTL's. If the mission has one big 10 man squad, get someone to volunteer to be your 2iC and split the squad. As the Squad Leader on a public server, you'll have a much better time of it if you can get reliable FTL's. That way you know you just have to organise the FTL's and they'll get their team to do what is needed.

                    SL's need to be clear on their orders. You can go into detail but I would always try and provide a short summary of what to do. People don't remember complicated orders and also not everyone's first language is English. If it's a big mission, it's probably best to plan for each objective individually. Plan the next one when the previous one is done.

                    Personally i'd like to see the SL as the admin. That way he has control over the mission. I've noticed an added bonus to this - because of the time it takes to get organised and vote a new admin, it tends to dissuade impatient players and they often leave. Those who really want to play an organised game tend to be patient enough to sit through a few bumps whilst we get organised.
                    Jex.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

                      agreed about splitting squads...

                      1 man should NEVER be responsible for more than 4 other guys... if the mission has everyone lumped into a big squad, its up to your leader to designate the fire teams...

                      yea i have noticed a very distinct lack of leadership on the server, and in ArmA public in general...

                      Everyone loves to comment how bad someone leads or how they made this and this mistake when they should of done this, but then when the time comes to step up to lead a mission, those same people dont speak a word.

                      Getting solid leadership on a routine basis is a vital step for getting the servers quality of play up IMO.

                      It took the TG PR server a loooong time to get this this type of leadership (and is still struggling) but its definitely paying off and the quality of play is much better off because of it.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

                        Originally posted by Grunt 70 View Post
                        Though something may seem clear as a bell to you, and you've explained it six times, someone else may not have got it (...which explains why the second Stryker isn't manned and ready when everyone is loaded into the first....(just a random example) Be firm but fair.
                        I take complete responsibility for that :row__628: I even looked at it and read the name and it just didn't dawn on me, I guess that's what I get for not playing for a few months.

                        I think the biggest factor in this is that some people just aren't at all comfortable with leading. Personally I prefer not to lead when possible because I'm not that well versed squad movement techniques and procedures so I'm constantly second guessing myself. On another note, in PR you have a rather quick respawn, most of the time in ArmA you only re-incarnate as a seagull which also adds to the pressure of making the right decision not only for yourself but also for those in your squad/fireteam.

                        In writing this I remembered that it has been a long time since I read through Dslyecxi's Guide, it may not be a bad idea to add that to the list SOP's forum as a highly suggested read for those who may be looking to SL/FL. Particularly the part the covers communications and movement. I've noticed the last couple days since I've been playing again that people have a tendancy to engage targets without reporting them leaving you diving for cover without a clue as to what is happening.

                        Just my $.02



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                        • #13
                          Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

                          yeah
                          thanks for doing such a great job leading us on sunday grunt. That was my first time playing arma for more than 30 minutes and I can honestly say I cant remember having that much fun with a computer game in ages.

                          I'm looking forward to playing again with you guys next weekend :)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

                            Originally posted by SethLive! View Post
                            yeah
                            thanks for doing such a great job leading us on sunday grunt. That was my first time playing arma for more than 30 minutes and I can honestly say I cant remember having that much fun with a computer game in ages.

                            I'm looking forward to playing again with you guys next weekend :)
                            It was great to have you in the squad. Welcome to TG...
                            sigpic
                            |TG-1st|Grunt
                            ARMA Admin (retired)
                            Pathfinder-Spartan 5

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Thanks BobDob - and to all Squad Leaders

                              @Fuzzhead - My favourite are the back seat squad leaders. Quite happy for someone else to do it but as soon as the SL starts issuing orders, they pipe up with "why don't you do it this way"

                              @Fiddlestix - it's only a game. If you mess it up so what. You just play another game and learn from your mistakes. One thing about being SL is that if nobody else wants it then they have no right to complain.

                              Sometimes you can do everything right and you still fail. And don't worry about knowing procedures. You can learn that stuff as you go and the more you lead the more comfortable you'll get with it. When there are a lot of TG regulars on the server would be a good time to step up as you'll get the support you need and they'll make sure their team members behave. We also won't think badly of you at all if a certain substance hits the fan - we generally have a lot of respect for people who can actually step up and take lead. So give it a go - after you've done a hundred you'll be sick of it ;)
                              Jex.

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