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P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

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  • P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

    I think for the midweek battle, we should put in a T v T event. We were playing it around 6v6 on the PW server about an hour ago, and i think i speak for everyone when i say that it was insanely fun. I personally like it alot better than Co-Op because the enemy actualy reacts, takes cover, and everything else a real human would do. So i'm just suggesting that we change the midweek to a T v T event, discuss.

  • #2
    Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

    I have no issues with it as long as everybody is game for it....
    "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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    • #3
      Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

      Id love to play more arma pvp so of course i agree...

      i could go into details on why i think pvp is much better than coop, but just gotta try it out for yourself.

      also i dont think there are that many pvp missions out there... really need to get some solid pvp missions on the TG server (although truthfully i dont think many have even been developed yet outside of the shacktac group)

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      • #4
        Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

        I with you on that Gen.Joe. But is there enough missions to keep it fresh?

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        • #5
          Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

          Originally posted by Krako View Post
          But is there enough missions to keep it fresh?
          I have about a dozen loaded now. As soon as some more are released, I will vet them and get them on there.
          "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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          • #6
            Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

            The missions on the server atm are all random, so i'm sure all theres plenty of replay out of them. If it becomes popular enough then maybe people can step up and start making pvp missions.

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            • #7
              Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

              I'd definitely be game for this. Well, as soon as I figure out why my PC had a "serious error" and rebooted while playing in the Sunday game today. But yeah, I'd love to play some PvP.

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              • #8
                Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

                To really make this work with TvT, you guys have to come up with a basic time line that you will play. I can set it up for a block to run, but it kinda sucks to have it running when there are only two people around. Before anyone blurts out a time, remember our European friends that play six hours earlier than us in the states.
                "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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                • #9
                  Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

                  Also what is important is that you have a few people around that are capable of getting the server population organised. Of course that is also important with Coop but with TvT/PvP it's crucial cause it's much more likely to become one big mess of sniping, lone wolfing and point whoring.


                  BTW, I kinda stopped working on my TvT mission, cause there didn't seem to be much interest in it. If people still want to give it a try I can at least update the briefings to make them more clear and after that perhaps look at a more elegant mission ending. If people didn't really found it very enjoyable then I'll let it die a silent death.

                  EDIT: just noticed 27 played the mission last night, so guess it might be worthwhile to update the briefings.
                  Last edited by Taxi; 04-14-2008, 02:53 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

                    The problem with the timeframe is that many people have jobs on weekdays. I personally get home at around 6 pm eastern. So i guess it's either the U.S. or Euro gets shafted, and in the end U.S. is greater that EVERYTHING (including Jesus).

                    And to Taxi, i think you may be referring the normal pub TvT that you see on the majority of servers where you can choose your load out and there are infinite respawns. I think the majority of the TvT maps that we play on have preselected load outs and no respawns. I try and avoid respawn maps like the Plage because they completely destroy any form of teamwork in a game, especially in a TvT enviornment

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                    • #11
                      Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

                      Originally posted by Gen.Joe View Post
                      The problem with the timeframe is that many people have jobs on weekdays. I personally get home at around 6 pm eastern. So i guess it's either the U.S. or Euro gets shafted, and in the end U.S. is greater that EVERYTHING (including Jesus).
                      *Quickly closes that can of worms*



                      Originally posted by Gen.Joe View Post
                      And to Taxi, i think you may be referring the normal pub TvT that you see on the majority of servers where you can choose your load out and there are infinite respawns. I think the majority of the TvT maps that we play on have preselected load outs and no respawns. I try and avoid respawn maps like the Plage because they completely destroy any form of teamwork in a game, especially in a TvT enviornment
                      Well I'm referring to the fact that large scale TvT is more demanding towards player organisation (and mission design) than COOP and you're right free load outs and infinite respawn will only add to that. With coop things are easier, on average the player side has the initiative, the number of surprises is limited and the urgency to counteract enemy manoeuvres is less. All this puts less stress on a sides organization. I wish it was easier to create group respawn that way respawns are easier to keep organized.

                      I do think in a limited number of TvT scenarios respawns can be good to have. For instance my TvT mission is on a somewhat larger scale, to make it unpredictable (and more replayable). Having no respawns would have some negative side effects:

                      First you run the risk that the fight just dries up, with such a large mission area and too few players left you'll probably get a too slow and boring mission end.

                      Second, if you make sure people don't respawn in the objective area but have to travel towards it (you can see respawn groups as reinforcements) and thus you stress the need to keep your situational awareness intact and also keep the mission end less predictable.


                      Just wanted to add that I'm all for more TvT so I'm glad you like that as well, just saying that large scale TvT puts more stress on the organizational side of things. I agree if you say this is harder to get working on the average pub server than on a private server that is used to playing organized.

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                      • #12
                        Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

                        I agree that TvT is much more demanding organizationally.

                        You REALLY need to have a leader with a plan. The usual tactic of moving around in a "tactical blob" formation will not work, it gets you quite quickly slaughtered, even by a few random rambos.

                        Coop is a good time to "practice" these organizational skills, get people into proper formations, have them approach the AI like they would players, that way when it is a player they are fighting against, they won't have to unlearn bad habits.


                        I also agree that respawn in TvT is a tough thing. Too close, and you have people who could care less if they die, you also can have spawn camping. Too far and you HAVE to have tons of vehicles, then you get one-man armies driving in maniacally with their jeeps.

                        Think of missions like Urban Engagements. You start way the hell up on the top of a mountain. Your ground transport doesn't respawn. You HAVE to use the choppers. So, you get players who act as dedicated transport pilots, ferrying reinforcements to various RPs. THIS is how respawn in PvP should work, NOT spawning on a point because you "captured" it.

                        The problem is: not every mission can have helicopters, and few people want to drive a truck all day (a chopper is a different story). I am hoping people will start to use APCs like they should be used; armoured infantry carriers, drive the troops to the front spam a whole hell of a lot of ammo at the enemy, and head back for the ones who weren't that lucky.

                        That's just my thoughts though ...

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                        • #13
                          Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

                          I would love to see TvT more often, it's a lot more fun and quicker. Coop is amazing too, but usually drags out and most missions seem easy to beat.

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                          • #14
                            Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

                            Originally posted by TactiKill Jay View Post
                            Coop is amazing too, but usually drags out and most missions seem easy to beat.
                            Infinite respawns tend to do that to a mission.

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                            • #15
                              Re: P v P Wensdays instead of the midweek?

                              Originally posted by Dslyecxi View Post
                              Infinite respawns tend to do that to a mission.
                              You talking about coop or missions in general?


                              On a side note I would say that in some cases no respawn with TvT can also be unrealistic in the sense that if you kill a certain number of opponents you'll know that the rest is all you have to deal with, while in real life you would have to have intelligence/observation of the surrounding area to have an idea if more forces are moving in or not.

                              Even more off-topic:
                              Anyone know of any "pool respawn" script. Such a script would require a certain number of dead players and a maximum wait time (which ever is reached first) before people are spawned back in. Dead players would respawn instantly if there are still players in the respawn area. That way people will spawn in groups rather than individually, thus using less vehicles and promoting teamwork.

                              Furthermore it would be nice to be able to choose between respawn or no respawn at mission start just like you can choose time and weather.

                              I looked for that stuff in the past, but could never find it.


                              I prefer no respawn 80% of the time myself, just think there is a place for it in certain cases if properly executed.
                              Last edited by Taxi; 04-16-2008, 10:35 AM.

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