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WarFare .... for idiots!

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  • WarFare .... for idiots!

    WARFARE EVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARHRGRHGRHGGRHGRHGRHGHGHRGHRGHG!

    I just played a Warfare game on Hells Kitchen's server and yet again I came to realise what a different and unique server we have. I was commander of the West and had more idiots running around not doing what was asked and oh yes...the next greatest thing in warfare play my kiddies, is "Secret Intelligence" where you place a player on their team and use TS to inform your mates on Opfor wher the enemy base is!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My god...what a challenge. I must have moved the MHQ 4 times and each time straight away, bang, hit by Arty.

    So..... some lssos were learned.

    1: Team switching in my opinion mid game should warrant an instant ban.

    2: Arty should be banned from warfare as it really just encourages people to race/flay around the island, find the base and arty the crap out of it. Oooooooooh goody, what fun! Muppets.

    3: Kick and ban anyone found to be using TS to alert the other team of positions.

    Without arty, warfare can be good, if played in the spirit it was meant which means:
    Set up a base,
    Get supply lines running,
    Establish cash through supply runs,
    Take nearby towns but dont tard rush across the map,
    Build solid defences and then once a region is established then begin recce/attack missions to expand territory.

    That.....becomes a good game.

    Not the crap I just played where I might as well have driven the MHQ into the ocean and gone park on a deserted island!

    God I miss our servers, I do not want to play anywhere else!
    BlackDog1




    "What we do in life... echoes in eternity!"

  • #2
    Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

    My biggest tiff is nobody uses AI. It would be an epicly large scale combat if players all used squads. Unfortunatly, most of the game you just end up trying to "clear" a town by trying to stop one lousy player who spawns at a camp runs off and caps another. It's like a merry go round of frustration.

    Oh and yes, ARMA outside of TG is not very fun at all =)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

      Warfare is a good base to start a good mission with, If someone with skills could take it, they could change it to something really great to play on TG

      My name: Adept a skilled or proficient person Abyss a deep, immeasurable space, gulf, or cavity
      So I'm a very skilled deep hole :D

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

        I think defense is the biggest piece of Warfare overlooked. Setting sound defensive positions makes for some epic battles. I agree with Zaboo, while I like having teamwork with human players, Warfare really calls for a larger scale game than just spec ops teams moving around. You can still use teamwork with other players it's just not he same "cover me while I peak over the ridge" kind of tactics in other coops. Following commander orders too are a must.

        The version 1.1 or whatever with the Arty being significantly more expensive should be a bigger deterrent to Base hunting followed by a barrage. If we had a dedicated warfare server I'd recommend either Arty off at pub times or instant ban for Arty on enemy base. The mission is not meant to be a hide and seek game with Arty Batteries and bases.
        |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

        XBL GT: Khan58

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

          I think what misses in warfare, are objectives, something more then just find the other base, or conquering towns.
          sigpic

          PR BF2 Alias: NewOrder_JoyDivision

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

            Originally posted by Blackdog1-22 Reg.SAS View Post
            I must have moved the MHQ 4 times and each time straight away, bang, hit by Arty.
            This was compounded due to the fact that particular server was running only South Sahrani, not the entire north/south. A lot less real estate for you to put the MHQ on, which makes it a major cluster**** of a battlefield.

            Additionally, have you considered trying to place the MHQ in areas that offer visual concealment? I mean, like tall buildings or heavily urbanized areas (ergo, cities).

            Originally posted by Blackdog1-22 Reg.SAS View Post
            Oooooooooh goody, what fun! Muppets.
            So I'm a muppet? Thanks. *hikes up pants and runs around waving his arms around like a blithering git*

            Not the crap I just played where I might as well have driven the MHQ into the ocean and gone park on a deserted island!
            Maybe this is what should have been done in the first place? A map like South Sahrani (without the north) tends to be very limited...

            But honestly, since I was the one who brought over 11 artillery guns to bear on your base in some of these matches, I do have to agree. There is an intense overemphasis on Artillery in Warfare games with just South Sahrani as the playing field. If anything, arty should be banned on that particular type of map.

            For regular north/south island Warfare gameplay, artillery can be an option since there are a lot of places to hide in North Sahrani that can be an effective shield against artillery.

            I have a suggestion, though.

            Build two bases, one in a city that will have a very low probability of being captured that will supply aircraft, heavy armor and everything else. Then move the MHQ somewhere where you can conceal it and have only a barracks up, reducing your "visible" footprint from the air. Also, try to build assets at various locations so you can create "faux bases" to confuse the enemy.

            For example, let's say your MHQ spawns in the northwest of South Sahrani. You could go to the town north of the airfield and establish a forward base after capturing it by building a light factory and barracks. Once that's done, run, run, run run down the west coast, set up another base in Chantico (or outside chantico in the desert field) and build multiple factories and assets.

            With that done, move the MHQ further south once more, establishing barracks at each city. Once that's done, and you reach a suitable location to tuck your MHQ away in, simply build barracks or a light factory, and use that as a respawn point. This way, you have factories in or nearby cities that can be fast-traveled to, and at the same time, misleading any air scouts into believing the MHQ is near those assets!

            Retroactively, if your MHQ is actually spotted, you can move it back to the other pre-established bases!

            Fast Travel is a valuable tool, especially if you want to remove the reliance on having all assets at the MHQ.

            Hope these suggestions are worth trying.

            -NK
            Hey guys, this is a public service announcement from NKato. I am Deaf, so when the helo goes down, you're best off typing "AAAAAAAAIIIEEEEE!!!" instead of attempting to scream it. Thanks!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

              By the way, I took command of a losing SLA team and turned the tide on the same server. I built artillery but didn't use it until after we had the majority of the cities captured. When the MHQ was located, the artillery was used only once to eliminate it and end the match.

              Bear in mind that they had three hours to move the MHQ to a more viable location instead of the freaking training grounds. And the base had been attacked previously, and the commander did not even have the presence of mind to move it.

              :\
              Hey guys, this is a public service announcement from NKato. I am Deaf, so when the helo goes down, you're best off typing "AAAAAAAAIIIEEEEE!!!" instead of attempting to scream it. Thanks!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

                NKato,

                Thanks for the advice, but I had done all of this, I set up first base in the Valley, spotted by SU within 20 minutes of the game start, started taking arty, so moved it. Placed it well out of possible eyeball contact at Tiberia, and suddenly we were getting targetted again, just after John switched sides. Moved just the MHQ to a nearby very small valley, instant arty again, managed to get it out and ran to Perato, got cornered by Kamov, game over.

                In the time it was in Tiberia, if people had done as was requested of them, which was to stop running around on lone wolf missions but help protect the base, we would have built up supplies at three close towns and then fought back.

                Artillery is a complete waste of time, it's like nade spamming.

                It does not matter if it is North and South, once artilley is homed on your factories, they are history.

                I would ban arty from Warfare and as you could do as an admin, as it takes no skill whatsover.

                So, had I had team members that listened to orders and not had a spy reporting everytime we moved the base, we would have had a much better battle. Instead we had Frickin Morons.
                BlackDog1




                "What we do in life... echoes in eternity!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

                  2 things people don't do:

                  1st is build the factories INSIDE the towns (you even don't have to move the HQ to them, there is already a option in the big bunker)! That away you can have the HQ isolated somewhere, and people can buy AI, vehicles, etc, without moving to base.

                  2nd commander can bulid defences inside towns, if the commander builds the defences inside the towns they will be already maned, no need to buy AI drive them to the towns and putting them in the defences.

                  Players should only attack and defend towns, all the logistics should be for the commander.
                  sigpic

                  PR BF2 Alias: NewOrder_JoyDivision

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

                    Originally posted by Jorge.PT View Post
                    I think what misses in warfare, are objectives, something more then just find the other base, or conquering towns.
                    The mission was intended for the Commander to give the micro objectives. The large objectives are teh same as every other mission, there is just not an order. However, the order should be very apparent as the towns closer to the HQ provide more cover for your HQ.

                    Great advice on building the majority of hte base into a city. The cover provided could really be a huge boost than the lone fortress in the desert. I would really like to see a competent commander building a solid base into a city.
                    |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                    XBL GT: Khan58

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

                      Originally posted by Blackdog1-22 Reg.SAS View Post
                      NKato, Thanks for the advice, but I had done all of this, I set up first base in the Valley, spotted by SU within 20 minutes of the game start, started taking arty, so moved it.
                      ....this is why aircraft of ANY sort should be incredibly, ridiculously expensive.

                      Placed it well out of possible eyeball contact at Tiberia, and suddenly we were getting targetted again, just after John switched sides.
                      I know why you don't like teamswitching (I don't either, especially when it involves "stealing" information), and I have a bad habit of teamswitching because I simply cannot stand being on a team that does not coordinate well at all. However, I try my best not to share the information I learned while on the other side - but when it's obvious that the current match is not fun for many people involved, I would try to use the information to end the match as quickly as possible. Mainly to save people from having heart attacks and high blood pressure. This was what I did last night on Hell's Kitchen with the overpriced gametype, everyone was having a hard time assembling AI teams because they cost up to $1,000 a pop! :P

                      Moved just the MHQ to a nearby very small valley, instant arty again, managed to get it out and ran to Perato, got cornered by Kamov, game over.
                      Man, that sucks. This is why I stopped playing at Hell's Kitchen because they always play South Sahrani, not the normal Sahrani map. Although last night, they had insane pricetags on everything on that server, I still managed to build arty and blow up the MHQ. Prices are NOT a deterrent at all to building artillery.

                      But earlier in the day, I had been playing at the 506th server! They had modified the gametype so that artillery actually had a range limitation of around 6 kilometers! This meant I could place artillery at Corazol and still not be able to reach Somato with my shells.

                      One downside with the 506th is that the server crashes occasionally - as it tends to do with nearly all Warfare servers (I noticed that servers running only South Sahrani do not crash as often).


                      A suggestion/request

                      I could try to take one of the most popular Warfare maps/setups and reconfigure the pricing and arty range limitations so that it is more reasonable and matches your concept of proper Warfare gameplay - this could then be used on TG as a test. Of course, AI and equipment would be default priced.

                      Here's my recommended pricelist. The goal is to increase the emphasis on leading AI squads, while minimizing the reliance on artillery and other heavy assets.

                      Personnel & Gear Pricelist
                      AI Infantry: $150-$300 (Crewmen, Pilots, AA Soldiers, and Snipers are most expensive)

                      Weapons & Gear: $90-$2,000 (Javelins and Stingers/Strelas would be the most expensive)

                      Light Vehicles: $500-$2,200 (Light Armored Vehicles are the most expensive)

                      Heavy Vehicles: $2,300-$5,500 (Anti-Air are the most expensive)

                      Air Vehicles: $8,000-$15,000 (Attack Helicopters are the most expensive)

                      Aircraft: $30,000 (All jets are priced at 30,000.)


                      Strategic Emplacement Pricelist
                      Camp price, MHQ price in parentheses
                      MG Nest: $300 ($600)

                      GL Emplacement: $500 ($1,000)

                      AT Emplacement: $600 ($1,200)

                      AA Emplacement: $2,100 ($4,200)

                      Artillery Emplacement: $6,000 ($12,000)

                      Fortifications: $120-$300 ($240-$600)


                      MHQ Pricing (In Supply Points)
                      MHQ setup/teardown: 50SP

                      Barracks: 100SP

                      Light Factory: 200SP

                      Heavy Factory: 4000SP

                      Air Factory: 10000SP


                      Other Notes
                      Artillery maximum range would be between 10 and 15 kilometers, increasing the strategic value of Corazol in a full Sahrani map. For South Sahrani only, Artillery would have a maximum range of 4 to 5 kilometers, increasing the strategic value of Somato and Gulan.

                      Also, I might consider finding a way to add in a new feature to Warfare that will automatically "seed" an area with landmines with selectable variables of saturation, minefield size and density, and spread.
                      End of Warfare concept.

                      My goal with this general concept is to achieve a balance in order to achieve a greater emphasis on logistics and supply infrastructure to ensure that the players will focus on the following:

                      1) Lead full-blown AI squads of 12 infantrymen.
                      2) Increased Emphasis on Capturing Towns.
                      3) Increased Emphasis on Defending Strategic Targets (Corazol, for instance).
                      4) Increased Emphasis on Area-Denial Techniques late in the game.
                      5) Increased Emphasis on Establishing Continuous Supply Lines.


                      What do you think? Did I miss anything that should be addressed?
                      Hey guys, this is a public service announcement from NKato. I am Deaf, so when the helo goes down, you're best off typing "AAAAAAAAIIIEEEEE!!!" instead of attempting to scream it. Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

                        One thing I was thinking about (which is highly impossible?) would be allowing users to switch to an AI unit under their ownership on death. Like in some SP missions. This would really encourage people to hire AI as the battle wouldn't be "lost" after they get the infamous headshot.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

                          Originally posted by ZaBoo View Post
                          One thing I was thinking about (which is highly impossible?) would be allowing users to switch to an AI unit under their ownership on death. Like in some SP missions. This would really encourage people to hire AI as the battle wouldn't be "lost" after they get the infamous headshot.
                          Not impossible - I've played missions where I spawn into my AI squad mates.
                          Jex.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

                            Originally posted by ZaBoo View Post
                            One thing I was thinking about (which is highly impossible?) would be allowing users to switch to an AI unit under their ownership on death. Like in some SP missions. This would really encourage people to hire AI as the battle wouldn't be "lost" after they get the infamous headshot.
                            Originally posted by jex View Post
                            Not impossible - I've played missions where I spawn into my AI squad mates.
                            I think this might help get the view of Warfare to the right scale. Right now you either have the RTS players that build their own little units and don't communication or you have the COOP/Domination players that communicate but don't build any units on Warfare servers. Warfare is a much larger scale than any other mission, including Evolution. Only the other CTI's and some of the RTS come close. With a small number of players, full A.I. compliments are needed. If you have a full server, then I could see some player only spec op units. I think adding a "Join Squad" option would be huge.
                            |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                            XBL GT: Khan58

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: WarFare .... for idiots!

                              Not impossible - I've played missions where I spawn into my AI squad mates.
                              Yep, it IS possible, however ... if all the units in your group are killed, you respawn as a seagull. No option to "respawn at base" or anything. You could still make it work, but there would be a LOT of room for problems and bugs.

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