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  • On Useless Chatter

    I just finished PLing a map, some recon thing. Started out as a mild-manner squad leader but saw that with two squads and more incoming we would need a PL so I stepped up. I was not at my best by any measure but managed to keep the men alive and moving forward as we cleared two towns.

    As we bagan our assualt on the second town I positioned the squad on a ridge with excellent overview, enemy contact reports started coming in, but we were not yet in an optimal postion -- I prefer to engage the enemy on my terms, not theirs.

    Now I am faced with processing multiple contact reports, confirming the position and readiness of three squads, and mostly what I hear is some dipstick (can I say that?) in direct comms whinning, 'come on man, hurry, common, its now or never' and so forth.

    Had it been RL I would have walk over and kick him in the butt (as I once saw a Mil training officer do on a rifle range).

    Next time I am faced with this I will halt all comms, and give the individual a proper dressing down in front of the entire PL. I deeply regret not doing it at the time, and will not let this sort of thing pass again.

    This is not the place to name names, and I am not entirely certain who it was, but if I ever see that type of behaviour again I will make an object lesson out of the individual in front of all.
    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: On Useless Chatter

    e-male...sounds good. Maybe they will get the hint.



    I need to play this game......
    that sounds like a good idea trooper.
    -Vulcan

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    • #3
      Re: On Useless Chatter

      Message to all:

      We are currently trying to "ENCOURAGE" more people to take PL roles and SL roles and as such some people possibly give up more of their own enjoyment to take on and learn a new role and because no one else has stepped up.

      As such many people have many different styles as to how they lead, there is no "correct" manner and if a PL wants to take his time before launching an assault all who did not bother to volunteer to be PL or those looking for a trigger happy fix, NEED to step inline and follow the PL's requests.

      THATS HOW WE DO IT HERE, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT, CLEAR OFF AND PLAY SOMEWHERE ELSE.

      TG is about mature gaming and a respect for your fellow competitors and appreciation that everyone's styles are different and this must be accepted.

      I know that many of the other admins will agree, that if asked by a PL to deal with an unruly or disruptive player, they will be warned once and only once. Thereafter do not come crying back when you get kicked from the server and possibly banned. We are simply not gong to tolerate immature play here!

      We all know when to have a bit of fun and goof off every once in a while, but not during a mission.

      None of the admins have any wish or desire to kick people off the server but I warn thee now, dont think for one second that we wont if you are spoiling the experience of others.

      BD1
      BlackDog1




      "What we do in life... echoes in eternity!"

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      • #4
        Re: On Useless Chatter

        In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti.

        Well said, E-Male, Blackdog.

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        • #5
          Re: On Useless Chatter

          There are a handfull of people at TG who are willing to step up to PL. I for one have never done it and struggle to even be a moderately half sucky SL at times. Being a leader in ArmA is not as glamorous as the front line jobs, your time on the trigger is reduced and as a PL I would argue eliminated?

          People need to pay due respect to all the people who choose to step up and lead. It is sorely missed when we don't have leaders on so don't muck it up by complaining when we do have leaders! Keep your mouth shut and next time the opportunity arrises to be PL step up and do better if your such an expert.

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          • #6
            Re: On Useless Chatter

            IT sounds like it is time to issue a Merit system for all players ingame. Not to sure how to acheive this but its seems tobe a ongoing issue. I know that I stumble across the TG sever and have never went back to another since. I enjoy playing with mature folks that take the game seriously, form of weekend warrior for myself etc... I have been off the rador for a bit due to the Wife-E being Prego and a slew of home improvement projects.

            All TG players have always seemed to step up to the plate when issues arise. E-Male I understand that playing as PL is not a easy task. You always do a fine job at PL. Next time give him a verbal warning, then a shift kick to the rump.

            Have a Rocking Day and Hope to see you guys soon online,
            Static\_jack

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            • #7
              Re: On Useless Chatter

              The person saying the "useless chatter" was using Direct VON and was merely saying, "come on, come on" while aiming at enemy soldiers walking down the road. We all get antsy when we see enemy soldiers, and are poised to strike. He was, in my opinion, adding to the immersion by saying what any soldier would say in that situation. It was over direct VON, so only those around him heard it. I think this was a case of hearing something, and taking it as as him feeling you were being too slow, rather than just being excited.


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              • #8
                Re: On Useless Chatter

                ...
                in direct comms whinning, 'come on man, hurry, common, its now or never' and so forth.
                ...
                From your description (on a ridge overlooking a town, I am assuming Ixel?), sounds like me in that quote.

                I indeed was saying "hurry hurry" etc., mostly to my fireteam leader to let him know I am soon going to lose sight of the target.



                I understand fully that everyone has their own style of leadership and that since it is just a game, no one is "right" or "wrong". I also understand (made a few threads about it ..) the distinct lack of leadership currently.



                Had it been RL I would have walk over and kick him in the butt (as I once saw a Mil training officer do on a rifle range).
                I didn't think that these contacts reports (admittedly, very informal) were interfering with platoon comms. From my point of view, there was no way I could have known.

                I might suggest next time, instead of letting it "slide" when you can't hear anything, either try to find a "quiet" spot (behind a house/bush/etc.) or simply tell the fireteam leaders to get everyone to quiet down.

                Communication is important here. I realize that as a commander you have a lot on your plate.



                Could be time to dig up an old thread, or make a new one, and go over some hints and tips on large scale leading. I know I would like some.

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                • #9
                  Re: On Useless Chatter

                  Originally posted by beita View Post
                  From your description (on a ridge overlooking a town, I am assuming Ixel?), sounds like me in that quote.

                  I indeed was saying "hurry hurry" etc., mostly to my fireteam leader to let him know I am soon going to lose sight of the target.



                  I understand fully that everyone has their own style of leadership and that since it is just a game, no one is "right" or "wrong". I also understand (made a few threads about it ..) the distinct lack of leadership currently.





                  I didn't think that these contacts reports (admittedly, very informal) were interfering with platoon comms. From my point of view, there was no way I could have known.

                  I might suggest next time, instead of letting it "slide" when you can't hear anything, either try to find a "quiet" spot (behind a house/bush/etc.) or simply tell the fireteam leaders to get everyone to quiet down.

                  Communication is important here. I realize that as a commander you have a lot on your plate.



                  Could be time to dig up an old thread, or make a new one, and go over some hints and tips on large scale leading. I know I would like some.
                  I admire your willingness to step up and admit it was probably you in this situation. I hope you aren't badly chewed out on this because it is just a game and players should be given an opportunity to improve.

                  When comms get cluttered, I don't think it's unreasonable to tell the comms to clear for what the lead thinks is a more important issue. Beita is right that communication is important and it includes communicating to others that you're having a hard time communicating.

                  I hope leaders will be careful not to severely scold others on comms. It makes the situation uncomfortable and can scare off players that have potential to learn. Plus, it can lead to a reputation that TG is unfriendly.

                  - It's who you game with.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: On Useless Chatter

                    Well after reading Beta's description (and taking into consideration Beta's contributions and level of play) it changes my opinion.

                    If a player is in side or group channel complaining, thats one thing. If it was a direct comms chat with his squad and was not questioning the PL then I have no problems with that. In fact if Beta was questioning the PL decisions in direct comms that would be fine as well, as long as in the end he follows orders.

                    I think this was a misunderstanding of sorts?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: On Useless Chatter

                      Originally posted by =Sarc= View Post
                      When comms get cluttered, I don't think it's unreasonable to tell the comms to clear for what the lead thinks is a more important issue. Beita is right that communication is important and it includes communicating to others that you're having a hard time communicating.

                      I hope leaders will be careful not to severely scold others on comms. It makes the situation uncomfortable and can scare off players that have potential to learn. Plus, it can lead to a reputation that TG is unfriendly.


                      You raise two very important points.
                      1. I could have simply requested that all comms clear, and thus made my job easier (mind you, there was a flurry of contact reports coming at at this time, not quite the moment to clear comms).

                      2. Also, as you note, publicly scolding a player can have negative consequences. But the same issue of a new player's perception makes public discipline at the moment of a serious infraction sometimes worth the risks, as the message is thus clearly sent to old and new players alike -- don't do such and such (and here let us leave off the moment in question within this thread and generalize the issue). So the issue of when and how to discipline is complex and not easily rule-bound.


                      Generally speaking, the best time to address an error or outright bad behaviour is right after it happens.

                      On smaller matters of errors in tactical movement and execution, I usually pull a soldier aside and address the issue in direct comms, or in group channel, depending on circumstances and the issue.

                      Beita's willingness to 'step up' and awknowledge the incident is indeed commendable, and I hold no ill will or bad feelings toward him. Let us collective leave this incident in the past and focus on the constant challenge to improve, individually and collectively.

                      The overall lessons to take away here are:
                      1. As PL I need to use my authority to control comms in such situations.

                      2. When contact is made, comm discipline ON ALL CHANNELS needs to be at their highest, with messages both concise and information rich.

                      3. The PL establishes target piorities and timing. This needs to be respected, even if it means an opportunity is lost. There are recognized exceptions, such as enemy contact at danger close which requires immediate response by the FT or FTM.

                      4. and this one is mosly my own lesson: I let this incident rattle my confidence. Reacting to a sense of impatience (whether or not that feeling was actually being communicated to me) I subsequently rushed the next stage of the attack, sent a squad forward to the intersection, and they were almost immediately wiped out. I had not properly used the second fire team, time, caution, and tactical movement to prevent this.



                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Re: On Useless Chatter

                        LMAO...Ironic!

                        Beta, you and I both know your the first to jump all over people on comms if you cannot hear or think properly, quite bizarre that this was you but also funny as well.

                        Ultimately as I said earlier, this is for a PL to decide how they want a situation dealt with. As Oakley mentioned, there is a difference between "excited" "I have a great shot from here and dont want to lose it" versus "this guy is an idiot and we are going to sit here all day at this rate", two very different forms of "Come on ...come on..."

                        Comms have become in my personal opinion, slightly "Too much" of an issue right now. There is only so much that can be achieved with the VON and TS and whilst we try to make the game as tactical as possible, we have to bear in mind the limitations of the comms.

                        In recent months we have had a number of outbursts with regards to comms and whilst we all understand the importance of comms, we also have to recognise the "fun" element of this game and if people get "chewed out" constantly over their comms use, they may very well just not bother anymore. Let's continue to encourage the correct manner of comms use for our style of play here at TG.

                        So we will find the happy medium, which is:
                        1: PL's keep a tight grip on your squad and run it the way YOU see fit in keeping with the values and principles of the TG way. Any admin will back you up if needed.
                        2: Everyone be aware of the limitations of comms with this game and ACT accordingly.
                        3: Let's continue to "ENCOURAGE" more leaders to step forward rather than moan about the lack of leadership in a personal opinion.
                        4: Have fun for crying out loud!

                        BD1
                        BlackDog1




                        "What we do in life... echoes in eternity!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: On Useless Chatter

                          If you insist on mindless chatter, make sure you sound cool while doing it! Cool and brief...

                          http://www.wikileaks.org/leak/us-mar...mcrp-3-25b.pdf
                          |TG|Switch

                          Better known as:
                          That noob who crashed the chopper.
                          That noob who ran over the mine.
                          That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                          That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

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