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  • veteran, or regular?

    first off, let me say, i dont want to start a flame war, but rather a discussion on veteran or regular.

    I prefer regular, and here is why:

    while veteran is cool, and imersive, there are just situational awareness factors you would have in real life that you dont get on a computer screen.
    -you would know who is talking to you. you could see them, and know their faces. you would know your platoon leaders voice, and likely many others in your company. this is my biggest problem with veteran mode.
    -you are a well trained fighting machine. you know how to read a map, and 95% of the time, you know where you are on that map. (i was never in the military, but i spend alot of time in the back country...i know how to read a map and compass, and i know how to get around on a map)
    - you would know who the soldiers around you are. again, by knowing their faces but also their mannerisms...the way they walk, and the things you would expect them to do.



    i only started this topic because of the rounds i have had in the last couple of days. we had an awesome round on regular the other day. well organized, and well executed. yesterday i played a round on veteran, and while it was fun...it was unorganized, half the platoon was lost for half the round, and you couldn't tell when you were getting orders from your platoon leader and CO, and when you were hearing grumbling from "backseat team leaders".


    so...bottom line: i prefer regular.

    discuss. :)

  • #2
    Re: veteran, or regular?

    Alot of that sounds like problems with the people in charge not identifying themselves when they talk. If Vetran mode is being played you need to know what your callsign or unit number is and use it would make some things easier.

    As for backseat leaders if you don't step up and lead when they ask for leaders don't whine thats all I have to say about that.
    "Gentlemen you can't fight in here this is the war room!"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: veteran, or regular?

      -you are a well trained fighting machine. you know how to read a map, and 95% of the time, you know where you are on that map. (i was never in the military, but i spend alot of time in the back country...i know how to read a map and compass, and i know how to get around on a map)
      This is unreasonable IMO.

      As far as I can tell, there is no way to show only friendly players on the map ... so, if you want to see yourself on the map, you also get to see that random infantry you autospotted through a bush 500m away on the map too.

      Put simply, being able to see an accurate position of the enemy down to the meter on a map is ridiculous. It makes TvT very frustrating and removes a HUGE factor from the immersion in the game, thus making TvT more frustrating.

      When you are always looking at your map to check where you are and where the enemies are, you aren't really looking in the game world. This leads to a very distinct case of tunnel vision.

      We played a round where the ACE maps were enabled and all but the team leaders had a black screen for the map. No, the world didn't come to an end, yes there were multiple cases of friendly fire, but, there was really only one (well ... two :P ) where it was easily prevented. The rest were because players were doing something unintelligent like running around the defensive line where the enemy was expected to be.


      There are still massive problems when trying to play in Veteran mode. I 110% agree that the VON tags should NOT be off, that is needlessly limiting as you get random people spamming the side channel by accident and no one knows what is going on. Also, it is VERY hard to tell what channel is being talked on, especially when things get a bit "heated" and people start using side channel.

      If VON tags were switched back on, and the damn kill messages switched OFF, Veteran would be MUCH more playable, and it wouldn't be so difficult to get used to it.

      Personally, I think that Crosshairs and Friendly Nametags should also be switched on (Crosshairs only because Friendly Nametags requires it). This prevents griefers from remaining anonymous and makes leading new people 100x easier.



      So, hopefully these things can get changed in the server config, as right now Veteran mode IS broken and unplayable.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: veteran, or regular?

        Originally posted by beita View Post
        This is unreasonable IMO.

        As far as I can tell, there is no way to show only friendly players on the map ... so, if you want to see yourself on the map, you also get to see that random infantry you autospotted through a bush 500m away on the map too.

        Put simply, being able to see an accurate position of the enemy down to the meter on a map is ridiculous. It makes TvT very frustrating and removes a HUGE factor from the immersion in the game, thus making TvT more frustrating.

        When you are always looking at your map to check where you are and where the enemies are, you aren't really looking in the game world. This leads to a very distinct case of tunnel vision.

        We played a round where the ACE maps were enabled and all but the team leaders had a black screen for the map. No, the world didn't come to an end, yes there were multiple cases of friendly fire, but, there was really only one (well ... two :P ) where it was easily prevented. The rest were because players were doing something unintelligent like running around the defensive line where the enemy was expected to be.


        There are still massive problems when trying to play in Veteran mode. I 110% agree that the VON tags should NOT be off, that is needlessly limiting as you get random people spamming the side channel by accident and no one knows what is going on. Also, it is VERY hard to tell what channel is being talked on, especially when things get a bit "heated" and people start using side channel.

        If VON tags were switched back on, and the damn kill messages switched OFF, Veteran would be MUCH more playable, and it wouldn't be so difficult to get used to it.

        Personally, I think that Crosshairs and Friendly Nametags should also be switched on (Crosshairs only because Friendly Nametags requires it). This prevents griefers from remaining anonymous and makes leading new people 100x easier.



        So, hopefully these things can get changed in the server config, as right now Veteran mode IS broken and unplayable.
        Is it not possible to tweak Regular mode? I know the clients can configure what they want turned on and off in regular mode. On the Zeus server we run without friendly tags, map markers and crosshairs and third person off, but we do have name tags for VOIP/VON, and the killboard disabled.

        I really like the name tags as it's really helpful, and you don't see enemy tags anyway. If this requires crosshairs to be enabled, so be it. This takes care of all the "hey, you guy, follow me" and "who is this? who is your leader? What what?". It might be a tiny bit unrealistic, but gameplay > realism in this regard.

        However, I just cannot agree with the map markers. It's not only unrealistic to pinpoint every single soldier in the vicinity on your map AND have it update it realtime, it also takes a lot of challenge out of the game and ruins TVT (and coop to an extend). We already have markers for Squad leaders, team leaders and special units on most (all ACE?) missions, so why do we need map markers? These are sufficient.

        And even though I like third person in singleplayer where I'm just about always driving vehicles, I think it should be turned off on the TG server. People abuse it to magically look over hills and around corners in coop and TvT. Since most missions are heavily infantry based with only one or two humvees in use at once, first person won't kill the vehicle driving. Besides, it's not that hard.

        Do what you want with the killboard, I don't really look at it until I want to know who the heck is still alive and who isn't. I do know that people 'abuse' it to see if what they shot was a kill, though. Shoot at target, bring up board, shoot more, bring up board.. even though he's down, unconscious and bleeding to death, he's not *dead* so people that use the killboard will fire at the target until the killboard says the target is dead. In any case, doesn't bother me all *that* much.

        VON/VOIP tags are a must and must be left on. I'm sure no one will disagree.

        My two cents, or was it three already?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: veteran, or regular?

          Originally posted by IceShade View Post
          Is it not possible to tweak Regular mode? I know the clients can configure what they want turned on and off in regular mode. On the Zeus server we run without friendly tags, map markers and crosshairs and third person off, but we do have name tags for VOIP/VON, and the killboard disabled.

          I really like the name tags as it's really helpful, and you don't see enemy tags anyway. If this requires crosshairs to be enabled, so be it. This takes care of all the "hey, you guy, follow me" and "who is this? who is your leader? What what?". It might be a tiny bit unrealistic, but gameplay > realism in this regard.

          However, I just cannot agree with the map markers. It's not only unrealistic to pinpoint every single soldier in the vicinity on your map AND have it update it realtime, it also takes a lot of challenge out of the game and ruins TVT (and coop to an extend). We already have markers for Squad leaders, team leaders and special units on most (all ACE?) missions, so why do we need map markers? These are sufficient.

          And even though I like third person in singleplayer where I'm just about always driving vehicles, I think it should be turned off on the TG server. People abuse it to magically look over hills and around corners in coop and TvT. Since most missions are heavily infantry based with only one or two humvees in use at once, first person won't kill the vehicle driving. Besides, it's not that hard.

          Do what you want with the killboard, I don't really look at it until I want to know who the heck is still alive and who isn't. I do know that people 'abuse' it to see if what they shot was a kill, though. Shoot at target, bring up board, shoot more, bring up board.. even though he's down, unconscious and bleeding to death, he's not *dead* so people that use the killboard will fire at the target until the killboard says the target is dead. In any case, doesn't bother me all *that* much.

          VON/VOIP tags are a must and must be left on. I'm sure no one will disagree.

          My two cents, or was it three already?
          Agree with all of that ...

          It IS possible to tweak regular mode, but there are a lot of people who are concerned that it will be too difficult for new people or just overly harsh to remove all the suggested things. This is why I'd like to have it for Veteran, so we can switch it to a more difficult mode when desired.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: veteran, or regular?

            Originally posted by beita View Post
            Agree with all of that ...

            It IS possible to tweak regular mode, but there are a lot of people who are concerned that it will be too difficult for new people or just overly harsh to remove all the suggested things. This is why I'd like to have it for Veteran, so we can switch it to a more difficult mode when desired.
            But you can tweak the veteran mode to have the Von and friendly Tags, leaving the regular mode for that occasions ;)
            sigpic

            PR BF2 Alias: NewOrder_JoyDivision

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: veteran, or regular?

              Originally posted by Jorge.PT View Post
              But you can tweak the veteran mode to have the Von and friendly Tags, leaving the regular mode for that occasions ;)
              Exactly what I meant.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: veteran, or regular?

                Sorry didn't understand the statement correctly then. My bad.
                sigpic

                PR BF2 Alias: NewOrder_JoyDivision

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: veteran, or regular?

                  I have a few suggestions that would improve the immersion and the game play.

                  Issue: Auto Report Enemy
                  Problem: Gives enemies exact position away
                  Solution: Disable Auto Report Enemy

                  Issue: Auto Report
                  Problem: Gives too much info, blocks view of Squad IDs
                  Solution: Disable Auto Report

                  Issue: Friendly Tags
                  Problem: Allows players to know where friendlies are. Disabling this requires more coordination
                  Solution: Disable friendly tags; Add SPON Map to all missions (or ACE :P)

                  Issue: Crosshairs
                  Problem: Very arcade like
                  Solution: Remove crosshairs, make sure ACE ACOGs with CQB sights are in missions

                  Issue: 3rd Person View
                  Problem: Can and is used to "cheat". Removes immersion
                  Solution: Remove 3rd Person View

                  ***Make sure extended armor is turned off per ACE Mod Team. This gives everyone too much health and makes armor too strong.***

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: veteran, or regular?

                    My only problem with veteran mode is that you cant see players name. And I dont mean VON.
                    When you put youre croshair on the person in regular you will see hes name, so you adres to him by name.
                    But in veteran you cant tell who is standing near you and this can lead to confusion.
                    Sorry for my English :)
                    Indirect Fire - Basic: Advanced:
                    Basic Forward Observer -

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: veteran, or regular?

                      I understand, and although there is still the argument about SPON Recognize (that no one knows how to use it) we need to install it to all missions. Default TEAMSWITCH!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: veteran, or regular?

                        SPON Recognise has limitations.

                        Can't see who's who inside a building, tent, near any large object. Also, it doesn't help that most people don't know how to use it, so the people who NEED to see who to follow (the new people to the game) CAN'T cause they don't know how.

                        As much as crosshairs/friendly tags are gamey, they are necessary or organization goes away fast.

                        The Auto Report and Auto Report Enemy REALLY need to go though, ESPECIALLY Auto Report Enemy. That one is basically the Lone-Wolf-Friendly-Map-System right there ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: veteran, or regular?

                          I know a solution for SPON Map. One is if they are in a building you can't see them because you need to be within distance (done on purpose). Also, to educate people we can:

                          1. Run ACE Training
                          2. At start of all of our new missions add the black screen stating how to use it real fast
                          3. Add it into the briefing
                          4. Tell everyone before the start of the mission. Ask them to pass the information on.

                          However, while we debate can we at least get 3rd person view turned OFF and auto report OFF PLEASE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: veteran, or regular?

                            Originally posted by TF5-SGM.Spyder View Post
                            I know a solution for SPON Map. One is if they are in a building you can't see them because you need to be within distance (done on purpose). Also, to educate people we can:

                            1. Run ACE Training
                            2. At start of all of our new missions add the black screen stating how to use it real fast
                            3. Add it into the briefing
                            4. Tell everyone before the start of the mission. Ask them to pass the information on.

                            However, while we debate can we at least get 3rd person view turned OFF and auto report OFF PLEASE!
                            Or just skip all those steps and leave friendly tags on as they are.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: veteran, or regular?

                              Or not, because friendly tags are arcade like. There is only so much that can be done with this, unless ArmA 2 allows you to have custom name tags, ranks, and unit patches (both arms).

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