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  • To train or not to train

    Since seeing the post "Armed Assault League" it occured to me that if we will be partisipating how will we preform? Specifilly against the realisim based squads using actaua tactics, command structure, and just generally doing the super realisim thing that tend to be common in these types of events.

    I've had some limited experiance operating with realisim squads in this game. They take it to the most realistic extreme you can, they operate as if it using real world tactics communication procedures ect. They have their stuff together but I'm 100% convinced we have more fun on our server.

    This brings up the problem I don't want us to switch to something like this and I doubt anyone else does either, we have fun, please don't get me wrong its not about that at all. However I don't want the TG team to get their butts handed to them either in any type of squad vrs squad play. Thats not very fun either. I'd put the guys I've been in game with up against anyone man vs man but its not really that type of game as you all know.

    My question to all the Arma players is is there a way we can get up to speed without turning it into a bootcamp mentality and still have a good time?

    Anyway what do you guys think should we work on things or just go in guns blazing? I'm with ya either way.

    Adv

  • #2
    Re: To train or not to train

    Honestly, I don't think milsim necessarily makes the squad more effective. A lot of it is just fluff to add to the "experience".

    Yes, we should practice things that make us better IN THE GAME though. These include having group leaders, fireteams, and designated player roles (AT guy, grenadier, SAW gunner, etc).

    Attempting relatively complex military maneuvers isn't going to help us as much as just having good structured leadership and practice with the different weapons, in my opinion.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: To train or not to train

      Do you guys need a designated seagull pilot? I can be the 'eyes in the sky'.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: To train or not to train

        If you are going to join a league then practice is essential. In fact, I'd get someone to design a training map to cover these essentials. I don't know what the league play so I'll just shoot off some ideas.

        - Map use: If it's playing on veteran then an orienteering course is a must for people to know where to go, where they are and how to get there.

        - Shooting: Practice shooting at extreme ranges. 200-400m would be good against moving targets. If in match you catch someone in the open at 400m, you'll want to know you can hit them

        - Recon: effective use of recon and spotting targets at long range.

        - Using armour effectively. Learning how to get Hull Down quickly, using bounding overwatch methods (tank a covers from a hill whilst tank b moves to next hill - repeat).

        - Aircraft: This, like armour can get quite in depth but if AC are going to be used, then tactics need to be praticed.

        - Tactics on the ground: Doesn't have to be military but you do need a plan and you need to know how to do it. This must be practiced.

        - Team work: The most important in my opinion. A solid team that works well together can beat opponents with a better strategy. However a solid team with a solid strategy is going to be hard to beat. Practicing together and seeing what works and what doesn't and finding the best ways to do things all helps to gel the team together. One thing team members really need to to is commit to the team and should meet at least once a week to practice. Buddy up as well and work in two's - keep swapping the buddies around so you all get a good idea of how your team mates play.

        - OPFOR: Get a post in the forums and ask for players to show up so you can pratcice against them as a team.

        - AAR: After Action Report - go through each practice and match to review what happened. Discuss what worked well and what didn't work. Apply this knowledge to future practice and matches.

        AA is a much slower game than say BF2 and you cannot rely on sidestepping quickly to get out of trouble.

        Hope this helps some :)
        Jex.

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        • #5
          Re: To train or not to train

          Great post, jex.

          Like jex said, these are the sorts of things that would need to happen in order for a TG squad to be competetive in a tournament like this. Right now, there doesn't seem to be much interest in this (Veteran Mode) style of play on our server. So far there have been plenty of easygoing, enjoyable games, but they haven not been tournament-style or tournament-level play.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: To train or not to train

            I think the reason for this Strag is because a lot of us are treating the Cz or Ge download as a full size demo/training aid.

            The majority of us who play on a Sunday evening, CTD regularly. Not what you want during a critical phase of a mission. Especially when the team have spent the best part of an hour (and more) getting in position, only to crash out. It's not a case of "if I CTD" but "when will I CTD". Its a kind of "suck it, and see" attitude from the regulars at the moment.

            Once the UK / US (and patch 1.03 - with better MP stability (I hope)) is released, people will probably start to take the missions (and subsequently the Sim) more seriously. I hope so. I loved OFP even though I never played MP on-line.

            I sincerely hope this coming "big release", has ironed out a lot of the annoying (MP CTD) bugs out. Smally anomalies (AI behavior) I can live with. Random CTD's wear ones patience down.

            Most of us here, are paying twice for the game. The initial CZ/Ge download. And this month, the English release - now there's commitment (or stupidity) for you.
            sigpic
            | |
            TG ArmA Pathfinder
            One pass haul ass - Greed kills

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            • #7
              Re: To train or not to train

              Ditto on Strag--good post Jex.

              Did we actually get a firm number for who is interested in forming a team and competing. As for me, I'd happily welcome regular drills and practice but I'm not remotely interested in competing with other teams.
              sigpic
              |TG-1st|Grunt
              ARMA Admin (retired)
              Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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              • #8
                Re: To train or not to train

                No Grunt we never actaully did. And that would have to happen first your right. As Bucc. Stated the timing of this is kinda akward with the release also the CTD problem which I know very well unfortunatly. I'm going to assume the patch will fix the CTD problem otherwise I'm going to have a mental breakdown. lol

                Jex, Strag, Bhack all good points, I think we are all of the same basic mind on this. No need to emulate these realisim squads as long as we can preform as well or better in our own way whatever that turns out to be which is honestly all that matters to me, and that its a good time for all.

                Grunt I know this is not your thing, no problems there I respect that but heres a short list of people I think would be on board for this.

                Bhack
                Bucc.
                Strag
                Jex
                Big C (not sure of )
                Evil koala (not sure of )
                Jonan (Fearless seagull pilot)
                Myself Adv in game.

                Feel free to add or subtract your name based on your interest or lack there of.

                Will try to be in game more, the next several days will be rough for me working overtime but shuold calm down after a week or two. I miss the Co-Op's but my boss is unsimpathetic.

                Adv

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: To train or not to train

                  I am all for doing some training stuff so we can play a little more competitively. Jex pointed out earlier some of the more important points and roles that are required to make a good team. For those of you that are not regulars on the server yet, people have already started to find their niche and pick roles that they serve their team which they are best at. I don’t want to see people forced into roles that they are not comfortable with. As for the things he mentioned on things we need to be doing, I do not know if the regulars realize it or not bur we are already doing that extremely well, albeit in a more causal manner. We are assigning roles consistently to leaders that make the solid plans where the team follows.

                  Let me site you some examples of how we have organized consistently on allot of maps (I am not going to mention everybody, just a few):

                  Evil Koala/Bhack – They enjoy the flying aspect and do it extremely well. They know the limitations of their helos and are awesome pilots that do not minds being in a support role or they can easily transition to an attack mode when the missions require.

                  ADV/Chappie- The kings of the machine guns. They are deadly accurate with the SAW and can pick guys off from 500 meters while laying down some lead

                  Sting – The king of the battle when he is driving the tanks around cleaning up the battle field

                  Strag- The close quarters specialist that can easily lead a squad into a city or base and clear it methodically

                  Makarov- He seems to enjoy whatever role needs to be filled, especially a medic and can easily transition to any weapon.

                  Myself- Most know by now, if given the choice I am carrying the MK12 Sniper rifle doing the really long range engagements and spotting.


                  I am just giving the people of an understanding how we organize. We already have a small nucleus for a winning team and a great time no matter where we play. I am all for showcasing our teamwork to other servers to introduce our style of game play. I also think that any of the all the current players can shift to another role without hesitation and perform it flawlessly (ok, maybe not Strag flying:row__523:). The one thing I did not point out was the leaders. Every gamer on TG so far has the capability and proven it by taking charge during missions and succeeded. Some may enjoy being in command more than others, but that is what makes TG so great, people will step up. The tactics we use are evolving fast on TG. Believe it or not, they are pretty darn close to military tactics, probably one of the reasons we do so well on so many missions.

                  Long story short- Bring on the fine tuning sessions, we could easily compete with any team and perform well. Plus, we will have fun doing it!
                  "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: To train or not to train

                    Originally posted by Vitriol View Post

                    Grunt I know this is not your thing, no problems there I respect that but heres a short list of people I think would be on board for this.

                    Bhack
                    Bucc.
                    Strag
                    Jex
                    Big C (not sure of )
                    Evil koala (not sure of )
                    Jonan (Fearless seagull pilot)
                    Myself Adv in game.

                    Feel free to add or subtract your name based on your interest or lack there of.

                    Will try to be in game more, the next several days will be rough for me working overtime but shuold calm down after a week or two. I miss the Co-Op's but my boss is unsimpathetic.

                    Adv
                    I am going to have to remove my name. I have the game but have not played it enough yet. I have a feeling Bhack my talk me into it eventually though. I do like the sound of "fearless seagull pilot" though.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: To train or not to train

                      Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
                      No Grunt we never actaully did. And that would have to happen first your right. As Bucc. Stated the timing of this is kinda akward with the release also the CTD problem which I know very well unfortunatly. I'm going to assume the patch will fix the CTD problem otherwise I'm going to have a mental breakdown. lol

                      Jex, Strag, Bhack all good points, I think we are all of the same basic mind on this. No need to emulate these realisim squads as long as we can preform as well or better in our own way whatever that turns out to be which is honestly all that matters to me, and that its a good time for all.

                      Grunt I know this is not your thing, no problems there I respect that but heres a short list of people I think would be on board for this.

                      Bhack
                      Bucc.
                      Strag
                      Jex
                      Big C (not sure of )
                      Evil koala (not sure of )
                      Jonan (Fearless seagull pilot)
                      Myself Adv in game.

                      Feel free to add or subtract your name based on your interest or lack there of.

                      Will try to be in game more, the next several days will be rough for me working overtime but shuold calm down after a week or two. I miss the Co-Op's but my boss is unsimpathetic.

                      Adv
                      You can count me in for sure. I don't really care much for competetive play, but I do enjoy PvP. As long as we dont get too serious with it, I'd love to be part of the team.
                      TG Regular
                      TGU Staff
                      ShackTac FNG





                      TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
                      Evil Koala
                      LeftSkidLow

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: To train or not to train

                        I'm like Koala,

                        I do enjoy PvP...but as far as competitive play against another team in a tournament setting...I'm not sure if I can commit to that. I just don't have the time to be ready for that sort of thing..

                        I wish I could...but our kids are too young and into too much stuff right now..

                        Chappie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: To train or not to train

                          Just to clarify.. I enjoy serious gameplay.. To a point.. Serious enough for organized gameplay; to include assigned roles, mission planning, use of procedures, and overall strategy and battlefield tactics. But not so serious to have an out of game command structure with people demanding my time.
                          TG Regular
                          TGU Staff
                          ShackTac FNG





                          TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
                          Evil Koala
                          LeftSkidLow

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: To train or not to train

                            Hi Evil Koala, I'm not sure what you mean by people demanding your time. I don't think anyone has or is planning to demand anything of anyone. Its probably just that I have not slept recently maybe my reading comprehension is off.

                            I assume there will be times for the events. If you consider that to be to demanding of your time then yeah I can see why you would not be into it. Personally I don't think its that big of a deal to say hey the match is sat on X day at 4:00 but thats just me. Or maybe I've just misunderstood your post.

                            If theres one thing we all seem to agree on in this thread its that there will be no changes in the way we operate hopefully only changes in how well we do so as we get practice. Hope ya can make it Evil k, could use a good pilot I'm sure.

                            Chappie the score should always be real life 1 game 0. I've never attempted anything like this either so hopefully the time issue will not be a problem for me either. The way I understand it it will not be really that much time in the actaul events at all compared to how much most of us already play it will be a small % of that hopefully, but Jammydodger would proably be the only one to know the details.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: To train or not to train

                              I wasnt tryin to be an ass, or say anything about anyone here. I was just stating my preferance in play style. Everyone here at TG has been great, and just wanted to make sure we werent talking about getting super serious about it. After all, we play games to have fun. I look forward to playing some matches with you all. :D

                              Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
                              Hi Evil Koala, I'm not sure what you mean by people demanding your time. I don't think anyone has or is planning to demand anything of anyone. Its probably just that I have not slept recently maybe my reading comprehension is off.

                              I assume there will be times for the events. If you consider that to be to demanding of your time then yeah I can see why you would not be into it. Personally I don't think its that big of a deal to say hey the match is sat on X day at 4:00 but thats just me. Or maybe I've just misunderstood your post.

                              If theres one thing we all seem to agree on in this thread its that there will be no changes in the way we operate hopefully only changes in how well we do so as we get practice. Hope ya can make it Evil k, could use a good pilot I'm sure.

                              Chappie the score should always be real life 1 game 0. I've never attempted anything like this either so hopefully the time issue will not be a problem for me either. The way I understand it it will not be really that much time in the actaul events at all compared to how much most of us already play it will be a small % of that hopefully, but Jammydodger would proably be the only one to know the details.
                              TG Regular
                              TGU Staff
                              ShackTac FNG





                              TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
                              Evil Koala
                              LeftSkidLow

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