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  • TvT mission question

    I like Coop missions, but to me most fun is playing against humans in not too predictable settings.

    I really like to have a type of TvT mission where each team get's objectives dynamically from "their headquarters" depending on how the battle evolves. These "headquarters" is actually just the mission making sure that both side are send to the same and limited number of towns (2 to 3) from the mission pool (10 to all towns on the island) at (approximately) the same time.

    This way both teams will end up fighting each other, but when entering a objective town you never know for sure if, when or in what strength you will meet your opponent. Each team is free to choose which of the 2/3 towns to go to for first or for instance split up. Winning criteria could be several:

    1 More towns secured than opponent after a set time
    2 Having conquered all towns in the mission pool
    3 ???


    To me this is fun because:

    1 You fight humans
    2 It is VERY unpredictable
    3 Effective leadership is crucial

    Does this type of mission exist in ArmA, if so what's it called, if not would you guys like the concept and perhaps be interested in looking into making such a mission or have suggestions?

  • #2
    Re: TvT mission question

    This sounds like a variation on Capture the Island (CTI) to me, but with certain additional features. I'd love to see a CTI mod like this.

    EDIT: On a related note, I think it'd be pretty cool to see a TvT implementation of Evolution.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: TvT mission question

      I have a TvT RTS mission out there somewhere that is based on sector control. If we ever get the population up as it looks like we will, I would put it back into development. Right now development has stalled while I work on a co-op mission, but here is my TvT post:

      http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...th-shiner.html


      I actually would love to turn my Hold the Line Coop mission into TvT as it really hard to get the AI to assault in a "smart" manner.


      Edit: Strag, I have already requested this and the author is considering a TvT variation when he considers the current version stable.
      Last edited by Shiner; 05-16-2007, 04:06 PM.


      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TvT mission question

        Originally posted by Strag View Post
        This sounds like a variation on Capture the Island (CTI) to me, but with certain additional features. I'd love to see a CTI mod like this.
        CTI does involve 3rd party troops right? I admire the AI level in ArmA, but it is just not the same challenge as fighting other humans, so I would prefer no 3rd party AI. Other than than it could be quite similar to either CTI or evolution. The number objectives each team gets at a given time is just limited. So the total set of towns set as objectives is 3, with 2 of those for each team. So of the 2 objectives each side has there might 1 or 2 objectives similar to the other team's adding to the unpredictability. But it would require 20 players to be fun.

        BTW, isn't this more like the Capture and Hold gametype? Anyone have a link that explains the current gametypes?


        Originally posted by Shiner View Post
        I have a TvT RTS mission out there somewhere that is based on sector control. If we ever get the population up as it looks like we will, I would put it back into development. Right now development has stalled while I work on a co-op mission, but here is my TvT post:

        http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...th-shiner.html

        I actually would love to turn my Hold the Line Coop mission into TvT as it really hard to get the AI to assault in a "smart" manner.
        Gonna read up on that.

        Originally posted by Strag View Post
        EDIT: On a related note, I think it'd be pretty cool to see a TvT implementation of Evolution.
        Originally posted by Shiner View Post
        Edit: Strag, I have already requested this and the author is considering a TvT variation when he considers the current version stable.
        Sounds good, but for me ultimately it is most fun when the likeliness of meeting a human opponent is significant and when I encounter enemies that I know that each of them is human or AI. I wonder how this would be handled in a TvT variant, cause with so many possible objectives the percentage of time in game being in contact with human enemies would be rather small. I wonder how much he will change the TvT variation. If for instance the objectives of both sides are limited to the same 2 or 3 towns at the time that would already make it much more enjoyable.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: TvT mission question

          Not to change the Topic... but there was a "We Were Soldiers " ofp map.. You and a couple Blackhawks fly in and drop you off to defend against an onslaught of Enemy... ( I flashed back to this when Shiner mentioned the "hold The Line" type game/map).. It was kinda Cool and intense... It was a nice, thoughtless, but again..Intense change of pace...
          Shiner..your Mission..should you choose to accept it... "WWS -ARMA edition"

          ;-)
          |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
          ..now where did I put my keys?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TvT mission question

            I really like that idea peardog. Hold the Line was really conceived after playing evolution for weeks and realizing that 90% of the missions out (besides evo) are assault in nature and not defensive.


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            • #7
              Re: TvT mission question

              I find defensive missions much more intense since, if the AI is decent and the map is coded for it, it can be unpredictable. Just Dig in..Grab some ammo and Cover your but.. You cover my 6 and I got yours...
              |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
              ..now where did I put my keys?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TvT mission question

                Taxi, I hope you can make this Saturday's sessions!

                http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...ic-server.html


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: TvT mission question

                  Originally posted by Shiner View Post
                  I really like that idea peardog. Hold the Line was really conceived after playing evolution for weeks and realizing that 90% of the missions out (besides evo) are assault in nature and not defensive.
                  Originally posted by peardog View Post
                  I find defensive missions much more intense since, if the AI is decent and the map is coded for it, it can be unpredictable. Just Dig in..Grab some ammo and Cover your but.. You cover my 6 and I got yours...
                  That's one of the things I like about my mission proposal, you never know what you might get into. Perhaps you just started clearing a town all goes sweet and well, but you get spotted by the other sides reconnaissance element. They fly in two full loaded blackhawks and all of a sudden you're in the biggest of ****, trying to hold the city or even just a block to save your ass. Things like 360 degree awareness and use of reconnaissance teams really starts to become important when doing a such an unpredictable set up Humans vs. humans.

                  BTW, is it possible to set up a mission such that the requirement is not to clear towns, but to have control over for a certain time. Control could mean for instance outnumbering the enemy in that town with a certain ratio (1 to 5-10) something like that?

                  My criteria for the most fun type of mission are pretty straightforward:

                  - Human vs. Human (HvH), no AI
                  - High likeliness of contact (current objectives for both sides concentrated on a smal(ler) part of the island)
                  - High unpredictability
                  - Realistic/immersive setup, so not too gamey, the combat must evolve such that it has military plausibility/feel.
                  Last edited by Taxi; 05-19-2007, 10:01 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TvT mission question

                    I don't know if it's possible.. but a script which basically states if the HELO or Scout or something gets from Point A to Point B then reinforcement's will be sent in (Like Helo drops etc..) ..but if you take out the objective before they can Signal/message etc.. then you save your tail.. and no more baddies...
                    |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                    ..now where did I put my keys?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TvT mission question

                      Originally posted by peardog View Post
                      I don't know if it's possible.. but a script which basically states if the HELO or Scout or something gets from Point A to Point B then reinforcement's will be sent in (Like Helo drops etc..) ..but if you take out the objective before they can Signal/message etc.. then you save your tail.. and no more baddies...
                      Hmm, yeah that sounds possible, but I'm talking about HvH (human vs. human, so there are no AI or scripts involved with that). I was just giving an example of how this unpredictable but compact mission set up could force you from an assault into a defence because your human enemies reconnaissance team spotted you and called in reinforcements. Not only is it very unpredictable, but it also stresses the importance of accurate awareness of the battlefield, both locally as well as on a mission level.

                      Currently a sniper team, is more like a long range assault team, after playing a coop mission a few times most players already roughly know where the enemies are anyway, they don't really need a recon team for that. Furthermore you know that the AI won't spot you that easily from a distance as a human player could with binoculars. In the described compact HvH mission, you NEED a recon team IF you want to have accurate information on enemy movements throughout the mission area. They also need to worry much more about their stealth.

                      After getting this information, the leadership needs to figure out what the enemy objectives/intentions are, how he wants to balance the forces available between counteracting those plans and executing his own and how this should be executed.

                      It just sounds like more fun to me than coop missions, where you mostly know roughly what's gonna happen and you mostly die because you get sloppy. Not that coop ain't fun, but seems to me ArmA has so much more potential.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TvT mission question

                        Originally posted by Taxi View Post
                        It just sounds like more fun to me than coop missions, where you mostly know roughly what's gonna happen and you mostly die because you get sloppy. Not that coop ain't fun, but seems to me ArmA has so much more potential.
                        HvH (TvT) is something we'd like to see more of, but we need the players to make it happen. Coop is a nice alternative when we don't have a ton of players, which has been the case since December. Now that the final v1.07 patch is almost here, I hope we see enough of an increase in our playerbase to make TvT plausible.

                        I'll see if I can get something started with your mission idea in mind Taxi. What I'd strongly recommend, though, is that you start learning how to create missions for ArmA. We need folks like you to generate quality missions based on great ideas. We have plenty of resources available in the stickies at the top of this forum, so please, dig in and get started. :)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: TvT mission question

                          We played a little 5 on 5 "Berzerk" TvT today... That would be a good time with like the Shack folks v TG folks...or something like that.. 10 on 10 or something that large would work well...
                          |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                          ..now where did I put my keys?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: TvT mission question

                            Originally posted by Strag View Post
                            HvH (TvT) is something we'd like to see more of, but we need the players to make it happen. Coop is a nice alternative when we don't have a ton of players, which has been the case since December. Now that the final v1.07 patch is almost here, I hope we see enough of an increase in our playerbase to make TvT plausible.
                            Just to be clear, I was in no way criticizing the mission types run on the TG server. TvT indeed ain't much fun on large maps with few players, think for my kind of proposal one would need at least 20, but more is better.

                            Originally posted by Strag View Post
                            I'll see if I can get something started with your mission idea in mind Taxi. What I'd strongly recommend, though, is that you start learning how to create missions for ArmA. We need folks like you to generate quality missions based on great ideas. We have plenty of resources available in the stickies at the top of this forum, so please, dig in and get started. :)
                            Yeah, I downloaded the BAS f thing yesterday. Think I will be in over my head, but the manual seems to be comprehensive so.

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