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Why so little TvT missions?

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  • Why so little TvT missions?

    Why there are so little TvT missions (being played). To me TvT is much more fun than Coop:

    - Much less predictable
    - Stealth is way more important
    - Being behind cover is way more important
    - You can use tactics that do not work with AI
    - Adds an element of competition with the opponent
    - Sense of accomplishment when beating an equal opponent

    I really don't get it. I miss the thrill the adrenalin rush I would sometimes get when things got tight in other games which were human vs. human. Don't you guys miss that somehow?

  • #2
    Re: Why so little TvT missions?

    I'd say it boils down to number of players and familiarity with the game. Right now we're getting a greater number of players, but many of them are new to ArmA and are trying to learn the ropes; cooperative play against AI is a great way to do that. I think as we get more players and everyone learns the game, we'll probably want to take on more TvT missions.

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    • #3
      Re: Why so little TvT missions?

      As long as you do TvT in no respawn and predefined kits I'm game. But anything else is either musical flags or snipe fest. I heard of a good urban mission, Paradise lost I believe. That may eliminate the snipe fest problem.
      |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

      XBL GT: Khan58

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      • #4
        Re: Why so little TvT missions?

        Most TvT mission encourage fast action.. this works in opposition to the style of game that ArmA is optimized for. I think we will see more TvT play in the future as missions are adapted built that fit with ArmA's strengths and don't just replicate BF2 in a tactical environment.


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        • #5
          Re: Why so little TvT missions?

          I want anything other than evolution, of maybe server hopping as TG vs most of world but, I go where everyone is currently :)

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          • #6
            Re: Why so little TvT missions?

            We have several TvT missions already loaded on the public server. There is always a opportunity to join that server and simply play them. i also agree, that most of the ones out there are BF2 like. I am sure we can get a couple small unit versus missions created/loaded in the near future.
            "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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            • #7
              Re: Why so little TvT missions?

              Yea, perhaps small missions to start with, one life each, perhaps attack/defend base or city?

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              • #8
                Re: Why so little TvT missions?

                I'm still looking forward to a T vs T evo-style map, except on a smaller scale like Coop Aces.

                Shiner? Domination ;)

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                • #9
                  Re: Why so little TvT missions?

                  Think you all bring valid points to the table. I reckon many TvT currently run into snipe fests indeed because of the type of missions. The enemy more or less knows where you're coming from and the mission area is to small for teams to choose such a route to the objective that they are not as vulnerable to sniper fire. On a larger scale a sniper team also has more observer tasks than merely picking off easy targets.

                  Also sniping is fine as long as it is in coordination with for instance an actual assault on an objective. Personally I wouldn't mind respawns as long as there is a long enough wait/travel time involved (preferably group respawns in stead of individually). I fear that with a larger mission area with small teams and no respawns most missions will "run dry" of action, which wouldn't be much fun either. And yes, weapon loadout is critical.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Why so little TvT missions?

                    One of the new co-op missions we have loaded is a sniper mission. I honestly haven't gotten more than 10 minutes into it by myself, but I am excited to play with with some people. If you die, it actually makes you wait several minutes to respawn. THAT is awesome, and something I haven't seen yet.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Why so little TvT missions?

                      TheBigC speaks the truth -- we have TvT missions available on Server #1, ready to go. Folks are more than welcome to play them! I've got a 16-player TvT mission that I'd love to see get more playing time, and I can easily expand it to accomodate more players if desired (12 vs 12 or 16 vs 16). I never really finished tweaking it because we didn't have enough players to fill it up. Maybe now we could.


                      Originally posted by boudreux View Post
                      If you die, it actually makes you wait several minutes to respawn. THAT is awesome, and something I haven't seen yet.
                      This is a setting that can be adjusted very easily. I'd certainly be happy to add a several-minute respawn time to my missions, if desired.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Why so little TvT missions?

                        Originally posted by boudreux View Post
                        I'm still looking forward to a T vs T evo-style map, except on a smaller scale like Coop Aces.

                        Shiner? Domination ;)
                        There was a guy on forums creating a TVT Evo type map with both sides to play but evo3 came out so hes editing it now

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                        • #13
                          Re: Why so little TvT missions?

                          I think when you get two teams made up of people who understand the point and spirit of ArmA the BF2 issue will be resolved. Sure there may be some new people on but a good squad leader and experienced team members should be able to lead the mission ArmA style. With ArmA still being relatively new it would be nice to set the precedent for T-v-T play. (or at least on the |TG| servers) As tHa KhAn put it, predefined kits would help. Iím looking forward to what our programmers have made and what they can come up with.
                          |TG| Yanu - Bad handwriting since the 8th grade.


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                          • #14
                            Re: Why so little TvT missions?

                            Adversarial missions don't have to be all that fancy. Grab the BAS(f) mission framework, throw down two of the ShackTac-style platoons in it, cut out as many fireteams as are necessary to get the playercount you want, find a good slice of terrain to fight over, and you've got a fun adversarial mission that's extremely easy to put together (thanks to BAS(f)).

                            You can take it further from there if desired, but that's a really solid starting place and it has resulted in a slew of fun adversarial missions for us. If you wanted to try something different, you could leave the full platoons in and then have the players take fireteam and squad leader positions, so that you have a platoon-on-platoon meeting engagement where each player is controlling an AI team. You could even thrown group respawn in there to be a bit gentler to new players who might get picked off too early. BAS(f) has selectable AI difficulty and day/night/weather options, too, so there's a lot of replayability available right from the start.

                            BAS(f) can be found here.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Why so little TvT missions?

                              Originally posted by Strag View Post
                              I'd say it boils down to number of players and familiarity with the game. Right now we're getting a greater number of players, but many of them are new to ArmA and are trying to learn the ropes; cooperative play against AI is a great way to do that. I think as we get more players and everyone learns the game, we'll probably want to take on more TvT missions.
                              I hope this is the case. Every time I check the servers everyone is playing Evolution. I was ready to stop looking forward to TvT games with fellow Tactical Gamers. I would prefer that our server runs with no respawns. That is the key to setting the right pace.

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