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  • How do you fly?

    I hooked up my joystick last night, and was playing with the editor to see how easy it was to fly, but I'm struggling with combinations. I've tried:
    - fixed view, flying with mouse, control throttle etc with keys
    - fixed view, flying with stick
    - free view, flying with stick, control throttle etc with stick (would be my preference)

    I'm interested in how other people fly, because I have a few problems whichever combo I use. I would prefer to fly free view, with the stick, so that I can look around with the mouse. But my Saitek joystick throttle (it has throttle +/- buttons on the top of the stick) doesn't seem to work very well. It should be a gradual increase from 0% to 100%, but ArmA only seems to accept "on" or "off". So I need to use the keyboard for throttle, which makes this idea useless.

    Also, can I disable the mouse for flight control if I'm using fixed view?

    Oh - I have one of these.

    For those who have seperate throttles - how do you look around?

    I guess TrakIR, plus joystic with seperate throttle would be the way to go, but it's more than I'm willing to spend...

    7Shades
    7Shades

    How sweet, thought lifeless, yet with life to lie,
    And, without dying, O how sweet to die!
    - from Thomas Warton's "Ode to Sleep"

  • #2
    Re: How do you fly?

    I guess TrakIR, plus joystic with seperate throttle would be the way to go, but it's more than I'm willing to spend...

    Therein lies the problem. If you really want to look around TIR is the way to go. ArmA supports TIR anyway. Whether it be flying, or yomping your way to victory!

    Have you tried Cam2pan or Freelook (also known as mouselook)? I think these are free alternatives to TrackIR using a Webcam as the tracking device (you still need to wear a reflective dot). At least you could try it just for flying?

    You can have a read about Freelook HERE 7.
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    TG ArmA Pathfinder
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    • #3
      Re: How do you fly?

      I use your "ideal" setup, with the X52, and TIR. If your willing to go from brand new to used. Check out Saitek's Refurbed area. I did, they sent me a refurbished X52 and it looked brand new, havn't had a problem wiht it yet. Heres the link theres a X52 for ya at 69 bucks US:P

      http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/recprod.html

      Agnew

      oh and for TIR, use Dsylecix's 35$ coupon, gets rid of alot of your shipping costs. but hey its still a deal right?

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      • #4
        Re: How do you fly?


        For those who have seperate throttles - how do you look around?
        I don't have a separate throttle setup, I have a Saitek Cyborg with a built in throttle axis, however I use the HAT switch as a free look, which is pretty effective.

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        • #5
          Re: How do you fly?

          I have a full flight gear setup with HOTAS, pedals and trackir.. But I use mouse, keyboard and trackIR... ArmA's control setup doesnt suit HOTAS controllers very well.
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          • #6
            Re: How do you fly?

            Originally posted by Evil Koala View Post
            ................ ArmA's control setup doesnt suit HOTAS controllers very well.
            Huh? what? do what?

            2 shocking things here......

            #1.

            The best Heli Pilot on TG ArmA owns HOTAS but doesn't use it ? Doh!

            #2

            The Best Heli Pilot on TG ArmA thinks HOTAS is not well suited for Flying Heli's in ArmA. Doh!

            Evil,

            I fly Heli's in ArmA using my X-52 Pro. I used to fly the bejeezuz out of Longbow2 with a seperate Throttle and Stick (Thrustmaster HOTAS) back in the day as well. Why do you feel HOTAS does not well support the Heli's? If it weren't for my X-52 Pro, I don't think I would have nearly as much control and fun with the heli's in armA

            Please explain!

            Also, to the original poster.

            I would recommene NOT buying TRackIR (or at least not flying with it) until you are comfortable with the rest of the controls. I recommend a joystick with a 4 way hat switch (for qiuck views) and throttle in any combination you can afford or prefer. But get used to looking around with a hat or a key press first. Keep your view static while you are learning to fly (except for occasional glances using the hat), or it will be harder to get comfortable.

            Once you feel you have it down for the most part, then adding the variable look of TRACKIR won't disorient you. While you are first learning, it might. Once your used to flying, TRACKIR is awesome. but not while first learning. IMHO
            Sleepdoc

            My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

            (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

            I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

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            • #7
              Re: How do you fly?

              Hah. Thank you for your kind words, but with talk like that, my head might not fot in the cockpit soon :D

              Anyway.. I say HOTAS controls aren't suited well for ArmA because of how ArmA handles collective inputs. Regardless of what input device you use, ArmA only recongnizes 3 levels of input; Climb, Neutral, and Decent. So that entire range of anolog movement in a HOTAS throttle goes to waste. Instead of having the usual 100-1000 steps (depending on the resolution of your controller), in ArmA you only have 3 steps.

              So since the controls are pretty much digital, using a digital controller such as a keyboard makes sense and offers faster response as I dont have to move a throttle several inches to make collective changes.

              For example: During an approach, to make a smooth decent, I tap the decend button close to 3-4 times per second.. To do the same with a throttle, I'd have to move it up and down from the neutral area to the decent area 3-4 times a second, which would be much more difficult.


              And the last reason I dont use a HOTAS setup, is ArmA's lack of support for more than one input device. When using my HOTAS controller, ArmA still doesnt see my pedals.
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              • #8
                Re: How do you fly?

                Originally posted by Evil Koala View Post
                ArmA only recongnizes 3 levels of input; Climb, Neutral, and Decent. So that entire range of anolog movement in a HOTAS throttle goes to waste. .
                What? Do what?

                one of 2 things must be true.

                1. I am delusional (possible ... highly possible)

                2. you are wrong. (also possible)

                I fly with my X-52 PRO and I most certainly **DO NOT** get the sense that my collective is only being recognized at 3 positions. I can make fine increase and decrease collective movements that make refined climb and drop reactions. or so it seems. I admit that I have a wonderful imagination though....

                Is it possible that I am fooling myself about what I am feeling during refined collective inputs??? or is it possible that you did not discover the way to correctly setup your collective and your HOTAS in both the context of windows controller and in the game?

                For example, you also noted rudder pedals wont work? I can assure you that if I plugged in a saitek rudder set to my siatek pro, it would work. Period. How do i know this? Becuase my saitek pro rudder (the twist of the cyclic) works. It is a clearly defined axis in the windows control panel and it can be seen in the ArmA setup. If i bought Saitek rudder pedals, i would simply transfer the ownership of the defined axis and I know it would work....

                Please tell me what your hotas product and model and pedals are? what product exactly for each. I'm wondering if you have compatability issues. I'm also wondering if you are far more skilled at flying helicopters than you are at setting up multiple axis in HOTAS within windows and the game (not meant to be a rude statement ... im actually wondering this...)

                finally, I'm not so arrogant as to discredit the idea that I am completely wrong and you are completely right. But I fly almost every night. So I'm gonna stick with "your missing something" until i learn more......

                Would love to help you and prove you wrong ....
                Sleepdoc

                My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

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                • #9
                  Re: How do you fly?

                  You may be right.. I havent tried using a throttle since 1.02 and they've improved many things since then.. I'll have to try it again and see if its changed..

                  And my pedals dont work because its a completely separate input device that does not work under the same game controller ID. Your pedals are designed to work under the same ID as your HOTAS. I use a Saitek X45 USB and Gameport CH Rudder Pedals (the original, not the new USB pro pedals) with a gameport to USB adapter. ArmA only supports the use of the controller uding the first gameport ID, where my pedals use the second.
                  TG Regular
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                  TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
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                  • #10
                    Re: How do you fly?

                    Originally posted by Evil Koala View Post
                    You may be right.. I havent tried using a throttle since 1.02 and they've improved many things since then.. I'll have to try it again and see if its changed..

                    And my pedals dont work because its a completely separate input device that does not work under the same game controller ID. Your pedals are designed to work under the same ID as your HOTAS. I use a Saitek X45 USB and Gameport CH Rudder Pedals (the original, not the new USB pro pedals) with a gameport to USB adapter. ArmA only supports the use of the controller uding the first gameport ID, where my pedals use the second.
                    Did you try my trick, disconnecting one of them before launching the game and connecting it after game menu comes. This way I can use two different controllers (Nostromo and Joystick) at the same time. If only I could find a way to add my wheel into the equation. There seems to be a way using some software but I dont have time to work on it yet.

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                    • #11
                      Re: How do you fly?

                      I just tried it and you're right, they fixed the collective.. Now I REALLY wish they'd allow more than one controller :(
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                      • #12
                        Re: How do you fly?

                        Originally posted by John CANavar View Post
                        Did you try my trick, disconnecting one of them before launching the game and connecting it after game menu comes. This way I can use two different controllers (Nostromo and Joystick) at the same time. If only I could find a way to add my wheel into the equation. There seems to be a way using some software but I dont have time to work on it yet.
                        I just tried it and as expected, I got it to recognise the device thats was still plugged in, but after plugging in the other device, ArmA still only sees the first one.
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                        • #13
                          Re: How do you fly?

                          Originally posted by Evil Koala View Post
                          I just tried it and you're right, they fixed the collective..
                          Damn. I was really hoping I was delusional :)

                          Originally posted by Evil Koala View Post
                          Now I REALLY wish they'd allow more than one controller :(
                          Yea. The movement to USB over game port has costed me a small fortune. I don't care to publically admit how many full sets of Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS/TQS/ELite rudder pedals I have in my possession. But let's just say $1000 worth is an underestimate.

                          So with all this fabulously programmable and wonderful (and now totally useless) hardware in my possession, I finally broke down and bought a X-52 pro after a few weeks of dicking around with the old stuff and just generally pissing myself off.

                          Your screwed Evil. Technology has moved on. Accept it. I have. You will need to get a USB based rudder set to make integration effortless. Sorry. It sucks. As I said, it sucks for me to the tune of a number I would rather not specify....
                          Sleepdoc

                          My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                          (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                          I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

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                          • #14
                            Re: How do you fly?

                            Originally posted by Sleepdoc View Post
                            Your screwed Evil. Technology has moved on. Accept it. I have. You will need to get a USB based rudder set to make integration effortless. Sorry. It sucks. As I said, it sucks for me to the tune of a number I would rather not specify....
                            That may be true to ArmA, but any modern respectable simulation supports multiple input devices. Starting in the days of Falcon 4.0 SP3 and EECH 1.6, and onward into the future of Black Shark and Fighter Ops.. My aging 15 year old pedals will continue to work... Just not with ArmA :(
                            TG Regular
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                            TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
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                            • #15
                              Re: How do you fly?

                              Originally posted by Evil Koala View Post
                              That may be true to ArmA, but any modern respectable simulation supports multiple input devices. Starting in the days of Falcon 4.0 SP3 and EECH 1.6, and onward into the future of Black Shark and Fighter Ops.. My aging 15 year old pedals will continue to work... Just not with ArmA :(
                              I'm sure your right. It was actually ArmA that made me buy the X-52. and falcon really has little use ofr rudder pedals as the computer controls rudder inputs...theya re mostly for NWS.

                              But I hear you. that CH stuff is life long quality. i hope you are right. I hope only ArmA dead ends you. Black shark might be the one that makes me pull out my old sound card (for the game port) and pull out my elite peddals again.

                              Hey? where the hell is that blackshark anyways?
                              Sleepdoc

                              My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                              (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                              I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

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