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TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

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  • TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

    A long time ago, when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I had a conversation with BigC about BAS f (yes, MSM has been around that long). Like F2 now, BAS f contained a mission.sqm file with the standard ST platoons and some pre-configured supporting scripts for markers, group IDs etc. Great for ST, but not necessarily ideal for some other groups. So we talked to other groups and eventually began to include alternative SQMs - the most notable of which was one for Kegetys' crowd, the illustrious LDDK. BigC and I planned to do something similar for TG, but somehow it all got lost in the mix. Was wondering if it would be useful to revive, and if so, can someone post a baseline TG ORBAT?

    Edit: This is a useful template to follow: http://ferstaberinde.com/f2/en/index...tical_Platoons

  • #2
    Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

    Although I can't post any official ORBAT, I've been using a modified version of the ST ORBAT that simply reduces the number of FTs in each squad by one, and the number of line companies down to 3, to look something like this:

    Platoon Commander
    Platoon 2IC
    Platoon 1Sgt
    Platoon Medic
    Platoon RTO


    Alpha Squad Leader
    Alpha Medic

    1 Fireteam Leader
    1 Automatic Rifleman
    1 Assistant Automatic Rifleman
    1 Rifleman (M136)

    2 Fireteam Leader
    2 Automatic Rifleman
    2 Assistant Automatic Rifleman
    2 Rifleman (M136)


    Bravo Squad Leader
    Bravo Medic

    1 Fireteam Leader
    1 Automatic Rifleman
    1 Assistant Automatic Rifleman
    1 Rifleman (M136)

    2 Fireteam Leader
    2 Automatic Rifleman
    2 Assistant Automatic Rifleman
    2 Rifleman (M136)


    Charlie Squad Leader
    Charlie Medic

    1 Fireteam Leader
    1 Automatic Rifleman
    1 Assistant Automatic Rifleman
    1 Rifleman (M136)

    2 Fireteam Leader
    2 Automatic Rifleman
    2 Assistant Automatic Rifleman
    2 Rifleman (M136)



    Rinse and repeat for other factions and for all platoon-level or squad-level attachments. I've found TG is better-structured to favor smaller squads with fireteam leaders acting as a complementary element to the squad leader. This is, of course, privy to change now that VON seems to work.

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    • #3
      Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

      Isn't the Staff Sergeant and 2IC actually the same person most of the time in our missions?



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

        Really depends on the mission. I like having the additional XO around for asset-heavy missions, where I usually use this role to coordinate aircraft and transport. On lighter missions, you could definitely drop the extra slot.

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        • #5
          Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

          Thanks Sk[ + ]pe, that's really useful. Before I set off on the actual build of the SQM file and associated scripts, a few thoughts/requests:

          1. Could someone from the current admin team chime in with their thoughts? Since part of the intent of F2 is to help mission makers increase their output, I'd like to ensure the TG SQM is 'on message'.

          2. WRT loadouts, ST has a custom loadout for every position in the platoon - something which we effect using a script within F2. Should the units in the TG platoon(s) use vanilla ArmA2 loadouts, or do you want to do some tweaking using a similar method?

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          • #6
            Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

            As far as I know, there isn't really a specific official TG ORBAT. It has pretty much been what the mission designer has felt would work well.

            It might be a good idea to get a standardized platoon for missions, so everyone knows what to expect in the various roles.

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            • #7
              Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

              This one is a good one guys!!! Might want to jump in and layout how it would make it easier for TG to have a template of how to organize.

              For those of you who don't know, BASf is the standard and Fer is the man, if you didn't know that go beat you faces!!!! Now getting in on the template creation phase has only up sides for mission makers and publicity for TG.
              "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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              • #8
                Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

                But where and how to set the standard? If we decide on a standard, which one do we want people to associate TG with? The one that was in the WAC missions for ACE, and now most notably in Falcon's missions and Blackhawk Down where we only get ironsight weapons to give the AI a competitive chance (Okay, in BHD it is because that is what was used in 1993) ?
                Or should we go by the modern day USMC equipment where every soldier is a marksman with an ACOG?



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                • #9
                  Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

                  The standard load outs is actually something you probably don't want to mess with, all the mission creators are very anal about that. The key thing to key in on is the structure for team organizations. That can be time consuming and a pain, but with a template it simplifies and standardizes it across missions.

                  Also think about when VOIP is working in the near future. How best would some type of command structure be? We saw from ArmA that having every person on one element made for a real mess with comms, they have to be broken out somehow...
                  "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

                    My suggestion would be as follows:

                    Rifle Squad:
                    Squad leader and eventual medic in one team, then every fire team in a separate squad. That gives every fire team a group chat of their own, and the whole squad can communite through one channel in TS.

                    Weapons Squads:
                    A bit of a wild card imo. Either one big squad, or separate weapon types into different squads. So that mortars goes in one squad, and machine guns in another, and SMAWs into another. Buddies within each weapon team can communicate through Direct most of the time.

                    Vehicle Squadron/Platoon:
                    Each vehicle and all its crew positions in one squad. All vehicles in the same TS channel.



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

                      Keep in mind that with the new Command (or Commander, I forget which one ... the yellow one!) channel, all GROUP leaders can talk to each other on one channel. So, if you do break a USMC Rifle Squad down into 3 fireteams plus the squad leader in their own group, that will be 4 more people on the radio net PER squad. For a platoon, that is 12 people on the net rather than 3 if you only had 1 squad for all the fireteams. There are pros and cons to having each fireteam in it's own group. If you are all in one larger group (the squad), you would need to use Direct as your main channel, if you were in smaller groups (the fireteam), group could be used as your main channel. However, if you are in smaller groups (fireteams) you now have intersquad comms cluttering up what is essentially the Platoon net (yellow Command channel).

                      Personally, I would like to see the Squad/Section all in one group, the fireteam/assault group leaders can talk on Group channel with the Squad/Section leader and then the remainder can talk on Direct.


                      Also, having a one size fits all ORBAT may not be the path to go down, different countries have different ORBATs, hell, different military groups in the same country have different ORBATs (reference USMC vs US Army). Maybe an ORBAT for each of these organizations would be beneficial. So, there would be one for USMC, one for US Army, one for CF, one for UKF, etc. This would fit in with the multi-national aspect that ArmA 2 is likely to bring in the future with addons.

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                      • #12
                        Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

                        Good point with the Command channel. That gives a dilemma. Should all command comms continue being on TS through Channel Commander, or should squads be one unit to avoid getting the fire team leaders onto the Command channel?

                        Command Channel has the obvious bonus of removing all the hassle with enabling/disabling Channel Commander, while it does mess up comms some for squads.



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

                          I can't fault any individual platoon layout, they all have positive points. And so far with the layout given in this thread, the only oversight I see is having M136 rifleman in place of Grenadiers.

                          In any event, just for the purposes of debate, here how I like to set it up

                          Platoon Lead
                          Marksman/FO/FAC (depends on mission)
                          Platoon Medic


                          Alpha Lead (functional 1st fireteam leader)
                          1 Automatic Rifleman
                          1 Rifleman
                          1 Grenadier
                          2 Fireteam Leader (carries M136 when applicable)
                          2 Automatic Rifleman
                          2 Rifleman
                          2 Grenadier



                          Bravo Lead (functional 1st fireteam leader)
                          1 Automatic Rifleman
                          1 Rifleman
                          1 Grenadier
                          2 Fireteam Leader (carries M136 when applicable)
                          2 Automatic Rifleman
                          2 Rifleman
                          2 Grenadier



                          Charlie Lead (functional 1st fireteam leader)
                          1 Automatic Rifleman
                          1 Rifleman
                          1 Grenadier
                          2 Fireteam Leader (carries M136 when applicable)
                          2 Automatic Rifleman
                          2 Rifleman
                          2 Grenadier

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

                            The difference is US Army or USMC. In your layout, Sam, then I assume the FTL is a regular rifleman, and the Grenadier is the sole user of an M203 in the fire team, and the whole fire team splits the load of extra M249 ammo.

                            The USMC fire team is made so that the FTL has the grenade launcher (since he has time to use it. He's usually not shooting much. USMC FTLs are to lead by directing the team, opposite to 'leading as an example' in the Army. He employs the M203 when needed, without the team losing the firepower of one rifle which happens when the US Army Grenadier needs to use it), while the AAR carries all extra M249 ammo, meaning the rifleman has only a plain M16 and no other purpose than using his rifle, which means he's a perfect candidate for the M136.

                            Simply different ways to organize a squad.



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                            • #15
                              Re: TG ORBAT mission.sqm for F2?

                              WRT Loadouts: Probably worth explaning how the ShackTactical Assign Gear Script component works. Essentially every (playable) unit's INIT calls a script, passing it a role type. The script contains a library of loadout defnitions and applies the relevant loadout based on the role. This means that a mission maker can change the default rifle throughout the platoon with one edit. What might be worth doing is having a TG Assign Gear Script that runs the same way, but in default form does not change the loadouts. That means the mission maker can choose to go with the BI loadouts, but if s/he wants to tweak them s/he has all the power of the script at her/his disposal - no need to go editing 50+ individual INIT lines.

                              WRT Squad-as-one-unit vs. Fireteams-as-distinct-units issue: It comes down to how TG wants to use VON/TS, and in particular it hinges on how you want to utilise the GROUP VON channel. If you plan to use this as an exclusive channel for SLs/FTLs to chat, then you really have no option but to lump all squad members into the same group. However, there are some disadvantages to this approach: FTLs cannot issue menu-driven commands to their FTs, FT-members will not see their FTL's position easily, and scripting markers for things like FT members and FT positions (both things supported by F2 currently) becomes tricky.

                              WRT Single ORBAT vs. multiple ORBATs: Totally possible - either as one super-massive SQM file, or having a selection of SQM files. Although one of the strengths of a baseline ORBAT is that provides consistency. You don't have to use it 100% of the time, mind.

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