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Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

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  • Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

    I have spoken of casually how great Combat Mission Shock Force (CMSF) for learning military tactics and thought I would make a post about it. CMSF is a Real Time or Turn Based Strategy Game by the developer Battlefront which is an extremely realistic simulation of the modern combat environment. The game is set upon a theoretical invasion of Syria and was the first and only game to date to model Stryker Brigades in action.

    The combat is tactical, and most maps (mission areas) are 3 KM or smaller in size, ranging in size from a platoon to a battalion. The whole gamut of potential engagements are covered, from conventional meeting engagements to battles between irregular forces and expeditionary advisers. The expansion modules focus on rendering alternative invasion routes and focus on the British and US marine forces. The attention to detail and historical realism is unprecedented in a game.

    The great thing about CMSF is that its so realistic that it can easily translate into ARMA2, especially when combined with an historical study of military doctrine. You will observe yourself taking heavy casualties and losing missions over and over again until you start to take into consideration bases of fire, slopes, line of sight, suppression fires, proper use of assets, bounding over watch, disengagement by bounding over watch etc. You give the same orders to your units in CMSF that you would be giving to player SLs or FTLs in ARMA2, and there is nothing that cannot be simulated. The C2 system even takes into account being out of radio contact, disruptions due to not being in sight with higher, bluforce tracker (aka magic map in ARMA2), morale, buttoning/opening vehicle fighting positions etc.

    CMSF is also a great tool for coming up with new missions - it's an imagination amplifier for mission makers. My ultimate dream is to convert several CMSF missions to ARMA 2. The cool thing about the CMSF missions is that they are feasible and have a high degree of realism, but are still fun.

    Anyway what is the purpose this long winded post? IF you want to seriously excel as a TG commander, check out CMSF. It's a laboratory for tactical gaming that translates directly to ARMA 2.

    Some videos of gameplay:

    http://www.battlefront.com/community....php?p=1175817

  • #2
    Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

    Yet another reason for why I should never be put in command of a mission: although I own CM:SF and I've played it quite a bit, I still have a lot of problems completing missions without having half of my force horribly killed (except, oddly enough, when I'm using Recce platoons, but I think it's because I don't have too many units to micromanage, and the scenario is balanced for that). Still, my failures aside, it is a game of wich I would recommend playing the demo (training missions plus 2 missions (1 US Army, 1 USMC)), also because it is a good simulation on how the US Army Heavy Cavalry Battalion and Stryker Battalion works (and with the USMC expansion, how the Marine Corps work as well).
    Maybe, after some people have played the demo, we won't see Strykers and LAV-25s used as tanks so often :p
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    • #3
      Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

      Originally posted by Merula View Post
      ...Maybe, after some people have played the demo, we won't see Strykers and LAV-25s used as tanks so often :p
      Give OPFORs Konkurs, Mines, and Artillery support. Hmm...actually, this would be fun to build/make. *opens editor*

      TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

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      • #4
        Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

        Originally posted by LowSpeedHighDrag View Post
        Give OPFORs Konkurs, Mines, and Artillery support. Hmm...actually, this would be fun to build/make. *opens editor*
        Nah, just lots of .50cal nests should be enough.
        I still don't understand how, after oh so many times a LAV/Stryker/Bradley has been destroyed by a single DSHKM, people still insists on using these vehicles as short-range tanks.
        And don't get me started on some things I've heard being said about "the armor on a BMP-3 is the same as that on a tank".
        Yeah, because 35mm of aluminum armor gives it a "tank-rated protection level". :row__642:
        Last edited by Merula; 03-10-2010, 08:02 AM.
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        • #5
          Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

          In game, the armor on the BMP 3 is actually the same, not in real life though.
          |TG|Ghost02
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          "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

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          • #6
            Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

            Originally posted by Ghost02 View Post
            In game, the armor on the BMP 3 is actually the same, not in real life though.
            In ACE2 or regular ArmA2? From what I've read on Devnet, it seems that the BMP-3 is rather vulnerable to most weapons: there's an open ticket about it being easily destroyable with a .50cal/12,7mm MG
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            • #7
              Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

              Originally posted by Merula View Post
              In ACE2 or regular ArmA2? From what I've read on Devnet, it seems that the BMP-3 is rather vulnerable to most weapons: there's an open ticket about it being easily destroyable with a .50cal/12,7mm MG
              Unless this was just fixed this week, our TG integration of CAA /w ACE breaks multiple BMP's. e.g. vanilla ace it is how they describe it, but integrated with CAA for our maps causes conflicts. one of these breakages is giving the BMP-3 godly tank-like health.

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              • #8
                Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

                Originally posted by jaynus View Post
                Unless this was just fixed this week, our TG integration of CAA /w ACE breaks multiple BMP's. e.g. vanilla ace it is how they describe it, but integrated with CAA for our maps causes conflicts. one of these breakages is giving the BMP-3 godly tank-like health.
                Oh, I see. It's the same problem that we have with the nigh-invulnerable BTR-90, then.
                Now I undesrtand why some claimed that the BMP-3 was broken: I thought they confused it with the BMP-2 that causes server crashes, rather than the above.
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                • #9
                  Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

                  Originally posted by Merula View Post
                  Oh, I see. It's the same problem that we have with the nigh-invulnerable BTR-90, then.
                  Now I undesrtand why some claimed that the BMP-3 was broken: I thought they confused it with the BMP-2 that causes server crashes, rather than the above.
                  Yup...and also...the BMP-2 server crash issue....is another CAA integration problem; one of those "multiple BMP's that are broken because of it" I mentioned :P

                  |TG-TFP|Jaynus
                  Task Force Proteus


                  The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but Im just not close enough to get the job done."

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                  • #10
                    Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

                    Odd. Never seen a BMP crash a mission before. Any missions where it is reproducible? I can not reproduce it on my end.
                    |TG|Ghost02
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                    "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

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                    • #11
                      Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

                      Can we not hijack my thread? Come on.

                      Re BMP vs .50 cal:

                      Thats realistic, the .50 should defeat BMP3s to the side and rear armor, its only rated against autocanon HEAT to the front (like most modern IFVs). Last generation IFVs (BMP-2s, m113, BMP-1s etc) can actually be defeated to the FRONT by .50.

                      Re BMP crashing arma 2:

                      Put down any empty BMP 2 besides the first one in the list and you'll get a CTD. Several manned variants of the BMP2 also cause CTDs.


                      Can we keep the rest of this thread to ways of improving your skills as a commander and platforms for battlefield simulation?
                      Last edited by tyrspawn; 03-10-2010, 11:40 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

                        Anyway, downloaded the demo and really like it except the sound does not work for me.

                        Very good recommendation though Krause.

                        If you guys want what the US Army uses for officer training, take a look at this. Defiantly not as 'fun' as what Krause recommended though.

                        http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/product...ve_action.html
                        |TG|Ghost02
                        TG Pathfinder



                        "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

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                        • #13
                          Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

                          Defeating armor on light-skinned vehicles like IFVs was the purpose of the 40mm HEDP round. The intention was for the first stage of the 40mm grenade to blow through the armor on the sides or rear, letting the person-killing second stage into the vehicle compartment to blow up.

                          Thought of that when we started talking about .50 cal rounds punching through armor and such.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

                            Originally posted by Ghost02 View Post
                            Anyway, downloaded the demo and really like it except the sound does not work for me.

                            Very good recommendation though Krause.

                            If you guys want what the US Army uses for officer training, take a look at this. Defiantly not as 'fun' as what Krause recommended though.

                            http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/product...ve_action.html
                            That sim doesn't translate well to ARMA though, if I Recall correctly the smallest unit is a battalion. Cool thing about CMSF is how well it translates to ARMA 2 commanding.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Combat Mission Shock Force as a simulator for commanders

                              You are correct Krause.
                              |TG|Ghost02
                              TG Pathfinder



                              "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

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