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  • What?! You mean I'M in command?

    Thread Concept: To create an open discussion of tactics and approaches to given missions. Some of these missions may be real, some may be made up entirely. Criticism of ideas is not only permitted but requested. There may not be one right way to do it, but there are a whole lot of wrong ways. When developing your approach, discuss obstacles, possible problems, contingencies, formations used, terrain, weather conditions, overwatch used, orders of march, positioning of assets (weapons det, bradleys, etc), fire conditions, and everything else under the sun.

    Thread Goals: To let us air our ideas/general strats and get critical feedback on them. To create better commanders through the study and discussion of common and not-so-common situations.

    Thread Rules: Keep it civil, keep it respectful, keep it critical. Start your post with the following: "RE [insert scenario name]". If responding to another post, quote it or at least state the name of the other poster. There will be multiple scenarios as the thread progresses, but don't feel shy to revisit an earlier one even if the conversation has moved on. This may get a bit confusing, but... that's war for ya. A good commander needs to be able to maintain focus and shift from one problem to the next seamlessly. Consider this good practice ;)

    Thread Flow: I will post a situation with as much background knowledge as I can give. If it is a regular TG mission, I'll say which one. I will post a shot of the briefing map, and may during the course of discussion post in-game footage to clarify the situation at key points in the mission.

  • #2
    SCENARIO 1: Balota at Dusk

    Friendly Forces:
    Command {1xCO w/LR, 1xPlatoon Medic, 1xDMR w/binocs, all ironsights, no NVG}
    Alpha Squad {1xSL w/LR, 2xFTL, 2xM203, 2xM249, 2xM16, all ironsights, no NVG}
    Bravo Squad {1xSL w/LR, 2xFTL, 2xM203, 2xM249, 2xM16, all ironsights, no NVG}

    Supply, notes, etc:
    No respawn, no ammo, no resupply, 1xArty firemission

    Enemy Forces:
    50x Infantry in Balota entrenched and well positioned, 5-15x Infantry in squads patrolling to the north. Suspected mortar support. No vehicles. Suspected MG emplacements near the MSR. Likely standard army, no optics, no NVGs, moderate morale and competency.

    Conditions:
    Clear, sunset, 1-1.5hr until dark.

    Objectives:
    Clear the small settlement 600m to the NE of Balota. Take Balota and destroy a weapons cache at the docks.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

      PHASE 1 -- MOVE
      Move Alpha squad to recce northern field from 045-122.
      Move Bravo squad along dirt road to occupy dirt road - ASR intersection at 045-126.
      Move Alpha squad to recce settlement NE of Balota from 047-124.
      Move Bravo squad along ASR to staging area at 047-125.

      PHASE 2 -- ASSAULT
      Alpha squad provides suppression fire from overwatch position.
      Bravo squad assaults into the settlement after initial resistance has been eliminated from their staging position.
      Bravo squad secures the settlement.
      Alpha squad moves to watch the ASR for counter-attack from 048-126.

      PHASE 3 -- MOVE
      Alpha squad moves to the dirt road - ASR intersection at 045-126.
      Bravo squad flanks the city of Balota to the west, and approaches the dock from the coast.

      PHASE 4 -- ASSAULT
      Alpha squad begins probing attacks into Balota, using the forest as cover.
      Bravo squad follows the coast and assaults the dock position.
      Bravo squad secures the dock position.
      Bravo squad advances to assault Balota, using the dock as a staging area.
      Alpha squad begins pushing to Balota.
      Squads consolidate in Balota, mission complete.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

        My initial thought? Not going to happen. 21 BLUFOR vs 55~65 OPFOR with no support. Already its lost.


        Will post more later...back to work
        Last edited by LowSpeedHighDrag; 04-21-2010, 06:53 AM.

        TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

        Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

        "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

          This is very similar to one of the WAC's, but with way more inf, and most notably, no respawns. Without DM's, 240's, or even binocs for SL's or assist gunners I simply have too few tools in the belt to make this interesting and probably "fun".

          But anyways,

          SAD enemy squad in hills.

          Bravo sets up overwatch on town and locates inf concentrations and mortar team. (use a recon pair if needed)
          Alpha proceeds to hangars with caution and discretion.

          Once mortars located, bravo engages with small arms if practical, calls in arty if not. Hopefully arty nails nearby inf also.
          Bravo engages targets of opportunity in town at will, concentrate on North town ASR and defenders there. Conserve ammo.

          Alpha proceeds down ASR east side with caution as bravo helps clear their advance.
          Once alpha gains buildings, they set up defensive stance and wait for action to die down.

          Once action dies down, bravo bounds up around hangars to alpha.
          All units SLOWLY clear north town to MSR, alpha west, bravo east of ASR.

          Clear south of MSR and finish off remaining units.



          With AI, this is sadly all possible if everyone takes it slow and doesn't waste ammo. Just not very exciting or fun for the amount of time and risk involved.
          IMO getting in the buildings affords the best survivability, as the approaches are all quite open and the enemy is entrenched. The longer this mission goes on, the worse your odds of living are. Dying or not dying will be mostly luck if basic tactics are adhered too. Hopefully your men are lucky.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

            Here's my admittedly noob response :)

            Phase 1

            All units move down the dirt road to the intersection at 043 121
            Alpha and CO break left and follow the spur to the forest edge at 045 122 where they will provide overwatch for Bravo's move
            Bravo proceeds right down the road to the forest edge at 042 122 and holds until Alpha is in position, then proceeds along the road into the woods near 044 124. Bravo now overwatches the field for Alpha.
            Alpha crosses the field to the SW and rejoins Bravo in the woods.

            Phase 2

            Alpha proceeds SE along the eastern edge of the woods, reconnoitering the field and providing mutual support for Bravo as Bravo moves down the dirt road to secure the intersection at 045 126.
            Alpha continues skirting the woods until they reach the ASR around 047 126 then continues to rejoin Bravo at the intersection.
            Alpha positions at the woods edge in 047 127 while Bravo positions at the woods edge at 046 127.
            Alpha provides overwatch and fire support while Bravo now assaults the settlement.

            Phase 3

            Once secure, Alpha moves to join Bravo and both squads proceed South across the airfield, securing it in the process of moving to the woods in 046 129.
            Bravo continues South while Alpha overwatches West into the woods at 046 130.
            Bravo assaults the dock while Alpha provides overwatch for any counter-attack from the town.

            Phase 4

            Both squads now assault the village from the South and Southeast, using a bounding overwatch approach. CO will call his artillery support as he deems most effective.
            |TG-18th| Cutter

            Long-time Gamer - ArmA 2 Noob - Certified Old Fart

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

              Phase one:


              Pull units back outside if 5km of Target.




              Phase Two:

              Call ICBM on grid ref 044129


              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

                First, NOTE TO MISSION MAKERS: IF YOU WANT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO SURPRISE A CO, CHALLENGE AN OPERATION, OR MAKE YOUR MISSIONS MORE INTERESTING, PAY ATTENTION TO THE RESPONSES IN THIS THREAD, AND SEE HOW PEOPLE CONSTRUCT AN APPROACH GIVEN THE INFO IN YOUR BRIEFINGS ;) ;)

                That said, I love the responses so far! Lots to discuss here on what is a fairly simple, 3 objective mission.
                Originally posted by Sc[ + ]pe View Post
                PHASE 1 -- MOVE
                Move Alpha squad to recce northern field from 045-122.
                Move Bravo squad along dirt road to occupy dirt road - ASR intersection at 045-126.
                Move Alpha squad to recce settlement NE of Balota from 047-124.
                Move Bravo squad along ASR to staging area at 047-125.
                Are you moving Alpha and Bravo at the same time, or waiting for Alpha's recce report? Taking it from a SL perspective, what formations are you running with for each, and are you breaking them into FTs for any intra-squad overwatch? I assume Alpha is covering Bravo for its initial push down the road, but they're effectively disconnected once Bravo gets south of the (!) marker. Do you think it's okay to divide your forces since resistance is potentially light? What if there are 3 FTs in this area, and you have all 3 coming down on one of your elements with flanking maneuvers? I would expect the roads to be patrolled more than a field.

                145-126 is close enough to the city to get picked up by the platoon there, and could easily find itself in the sights of one if not both of the MG emplacements, perhaps getting flanked by one of the alerted patrols at the same time. 200-250m away from the primary force isn't much distance, especially when it's flat and open terrain. How is your final approach to this RP going to be? Do you need the full squad on location, or could you perhaps recce the main city with just a two-man team? Is recce even a priority for this portion?
                PHASE 2 -- ASSAULT
                Alpha squad provides suppression fire from overwatch position.
                Bravo squad assaults into the settlement after initial resistance has been eliminated from their staging position.
                Bravo squad secures the settlement.
                Alpha squad moves to watch the ASR for counter-attack from 048-126.
                Where is command during this phase? Would it be better to have Bravo assault through the south woods instead of over 100m+ of open ground? There is far more cover with a southernly approach.
                PHASE 3 -- MOVE
                Alpha squad moves to the dirt road - ASR intersection at 045-126.
                Bravo squad flanks the city of Balota to the west, and approaches the dock from the coast.
                Is that intersection really the best position to hold a base at for an extended period? There's an airbase to the east with a much better view of the town, better defensive positions within buildings, and that forces OPFOR to approach over 150m of open terrain instead of giving them the cover of buildings that the intersection does.

                What is the route Bravo is taking? Is it best to divide your forces by this much given the relative strength of the city forces? Formations/intra-squad overwatch for the maneuver of Bravo?
                PHASE 4 -- ASSAULT
                Alpha squad begins probing attacks into Balota, using the forest as cover.
                Bravo squad follows the coast and assaults the dock position.
                Bravo squad secures the dock position.
                Bravo squad advances to assault Balota, using the dock as a staging area.
                Alpha squad begins pushing to Balota.
                Squads consolidate in Balota, mission complete.
                You have Alpha and Bravo advancing in a straight line towards each other. Do you suppose this may cause blue on blue issues given the lack of optics and the setting sun?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

                  Originally posted by ForGlory&Pain View Post
                  This is very similar to one of the WAC's, but with way more inf, and most notably, no respawns. Without DM's, 240's, or even binocs for SL's or assist gunners I simply have too few tools in the belt to make this interesting and probably "fun".

                  But anyways,
                  You DO have 1x DMR. SLs/FTLs will have binocs, my bad in giving the starting conditions there, I forget about binocs when discussing "optics". Silly me. And getting slaughtered can be a lot of fun imo

                  SAD enemy squad in hills.

                  Bravo sets up overwatch on town and locates inf concentrations and mortar team. (use a recon pair if needed)
                  Alpha proceeds to hangars with caution and discretion.
                  Where is Bravo's overwatch? I like the hangar approach and caution. Yes, it would make perfect sense for that air base to be guarded, even though the briefing said nothing about it.... perfect sense, really. I mean, who wouldn't defend that base if they held the town?

                  Anyway, where is your command element during all this? Remember, it has the DMR and medic. What formations are you using for the approach of Alpha? Break it into 2 FTs and use bounding/moving overwatch?

                  The rest of the assault seems plausible and likely, and I always am hesitant to give too much command for MOUT since it's a very fluid and fast-paced situation where FTLs and even regular squad members are better at handling the situation. But, it brings up a question: what will command do during this phase, and is there a fallback plan, and when will it be executed?



                  IMO getting in the buildings affords the best survivability, as the approaches are all quite open and the enemy is entrenched. The longer this mission goes on, the worse your odds of living are. Dying or not dying will be mostly luck if basic tactics are adhered too. Hopefully your men are lucky.
                  Yes.

                  Sadly, this should be totally doable, and in under an hour imo, but it requires good marksmen with irons, and we don't seem to do so well with those as a whole. Maybe we need marksmanship training every week?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

                    Originally posted by Toyguy View Post
                    Here's my admittedly noob response :)

                    Phase 1

                    All units move down the dirt road to the intersection at 043 121
                    Alpha and CO break left and follow the spur to the forest edge at 045 122 where they will provide overwatch for Bravo's move
                    Bravo proceeds right down the road to the forest edge at 042 122 and holds until Alpha is in position, then proceeds along the road into the woods near 044 124. Bravo now overwatches the field for Alpha.
                    Alpha crosses the field to the SW and rejoins Bravo in the woods.
                    First off, thanks for jumping in. A key to good leadership is challenging yourself and opening yourself up to criticism.

                    Formations? Intra-squad overwatch? Using 8-digit grid refs would be useful here (divide each grid by a virtual ten units on each side and tack on the extra digit at the end of each segment of the grid ref, example: 0431 - 1211; or, in a far less technical way, add an extra digit at the end that would divide the grid into 9 sections like a telephone, example: 043-121, sector 1 (make sure everyone understands this easy system first)).

                    Otherwise, I like this, although it makes me think if both squads kept to their respective tree lines, they could both be in contact and provide good bases of fire for each other if they were engaged. Having 50-100m between them will work well for creating more of a two-directional base of fire when engaging, while being together basically makes them one, big base of fire, more easily flanked than able to flank.
                    Phase 2

                    Alpha proceeds SE along the eastern edge of the woods, reconnoitering the field and providing mutual support for Bravo as Bravo moves down the dirt road to secure the intersection at 045 126.
                    Alpha continues skirting the woods until they reach the ASR around 047 126 then continues to rejoin Bravo at the intersection.
                    Alpha positions at the woods edge in 047 127 while Bravo positions at the woods edge at 046 127.
                    Alpha provides overwatch and fire support while Bravo now assaults the settlement.
                    Alright, the two elements aren't terribly separated here and could reinforce/flank if needed. What are your formations, fire conditions, etc?
                    Phase 3

                    Once secure, Alpha moves to join Bravo and both squads proceed South across the airfield, securing it in the process of moving to the woods in 046 129.
                    Bravo continues South while Alpha overwatches West into the woods at 046 130.
                    Bravo assaults the dock while Alpha provides overwatch for any counter-attack from the town.
                    I do not like this push into the woods: way too much open ground, almost certainly they will meet an MG, and the northern/NE approach seems far preferable. I see high casualties in this maneuver. And I do not think assaulting from the S/SE is better given that it's an uphill battle instead of a downhill one.

                    What are your retreat conditions, what is the CO doing, when do you call this one?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

                      I'd have to check lay of land at the forest edge to find overwatch 064124 looks good to start, maps don't show tree sightline or grass blockage well, SL's discretion here.

                      Command and DMR will be grouped with Bravo , Medic with Alpha.

                      As for airfield defense, plan for what you know. Semper gumby is all you can do for the rest once the boots hit the ground. With such limited assets, you have to lean heavily on leadership, individual awareness and skill.

                      I'm not going to hold up 22 guys in a mission briefing planing contingencies all night. :)

                      Fallback plan? uh. Live or die, but try to have fun. It's not a map any sane army would do IRL, so there is only so much real-world tactics it deserves.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

                        Ok jumping in here this scenario is exceptionally unrealistic there is zero way that two light infantry squads could attack an entrenched platoon in a superior position without sustaining unacceptable casualties. If I were leading this the best option would be not to attack at all.

                        That being said I like the idea behind this thread however I think it might be more beneficial to start with a more general discussion about squad and platoon level tactics.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

                          Sounds like an enjoyable vignette of a mission.

                          As to my own approach, avoid the hill patrol entirely - it's small enough to be dealt with later, and 'alerting' the AI in Balota so early will likely hurt more than the removal of the patrol would help. Move from the start position to the SW, around 040124, then continue SW along those trees until the main E/W road is reached. From there, move east while shadowing the road on the southern side. The hills on the SW/W side of Balota are small, but they're enough to significantly mask friendlies from observation and fire from the town. Movement intent would be stealth at this point, attempting to get as close to Balota as possible before making contact.

                          The DMR would be tasked to search for his own firing position, provided that he chooses something that the friendly force passes near en route to the objective. It looks like the bit in 042127 might make a solid firing position to weed out some enemies on the W and NW side of town, and from there, the wooded hill 11 to the south would probably give some complementary positions as well. ROE for him would be at his discretion, with the understanding that the rest of the unit is attempting stealth first - if he was skilled enough to be given the DMR slot, he should be skilled enough to know when to use it.

                          Arty would be saved for any unexpected resistance on the W/SW/S sides of town. If bunkers or somesuch, they'd get a firemission on them, with the intent being to clear a path for the squads to get into the town and take the fight right to the enemy.

                          The assault intent would be to close with the enemy via stealth, hit their hardpoints with arty or DMR fire, and then push one squad into the S, W, or SW side of the town while the other supported. Once that squad acquires a foothold, the other squad moves into a complementary position - perhaps following the first, perhaps coming in on a different part of town. Due to the proximity, smoke could be used to cover the movements well, and the AI would lose their numerical advantage once they find their own town infested with two squads of the enemy.

                          The key point would simply be leadership initiative and assessing the town's defensive disposition while moving towards it. Once in the proper positions, the rest would be a MOUT fight with individuals and small groups carrying the day through their own experience and skill.

                          Once Balota was secure, assuming that the norther patrol didn't simply move in to reinforce during the fighting, it'd be a simple matter of moving north to find and destroy that patrol.

                          Seems like it'd take 30, 35 minutes or so all told. 50-65 defending vs 20-something may not be "realistic" in actual combat, but in ArmA2, I'd think it would be completely feasible.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What?! You mean I'M in command?

                            There's of coarse multiple ways to approach this mission and I think in this situation, that keeping both squads near each other is best for dealing with a superior numerical foe spread out within an area.With both squads near each other, the same targets can be engaged using maximum fire power to put the foe down quickly without receiving much return fire.

                            As for moving in and engaging with the enemy,strategically as the overall plan, i would attempt to recon from various spots in the North and then move both squads in along the East side of the specific AO,to take the small town North East of Balota, then move both squads South through the woods to take over the Hangers.From there both squads will move into the North of Balota and secure certain neighborhoods before proceeding to demo the ammo.

                            The plan execution would be something like this, The 2 squads at the start of the mission would move to the South East at grid reference 045 121.From there, 1 Squad or preferably a fire team from a squad, would be tasked with moving to the Tower area (I think its a tower) in grid reference 045 122, and do a quick recon of the area on wherever their eyes reach, while the remaining squads hold up positions and secure a small perimeter keeping eyes in all directions.

                            Depending on whats been seen and reported by the ones doing the recon the following actions will be taken, If enemy is seen and in engagement range both squads will line up and take up positions in grid 045 122 where the recon was sent, and then engage any enemy until they are all gone.When enemy is down or if no enemy is sighted or even out of engagement range, both squads will then proceed East to Grid 047 122.From there one Squad,Alpha for example, will break off and move to Grid 047 123 to the rocks for cover and concealment on the hill and recon from there, while the other Squad,Bravo, keeps moving East then shifts South to Grid 049 124 to get to the North of the small town,and recon from there, into the town and its surrounding area.

                            Depending on enemy strength and whats seen, the 2 Squads will be ordered to be weapons free at the same time and will engage any enemy in their range.

                            Bravo Squad that is located in Grid 049 124 North of the small town will then assault the town from their positions when the enemy in the area are shot down, and then take up positions in the Town and orient themselves to concentrate their fire arc to the South West watching the road and the surroundings from Grid 048 125.

                            Depending on enemy presence again, Alpha squad that is located at Grid 047 123, will then move if clear of enemy, to the East using the trees as concealment and into the Town Bravo is holding.Alpha will then continue as Bravo holds in place, to the wooded area South of the Town to Grid 048 126,and hold there as well as scan for any targets.

                            While Alpha holds its new position, Bravo will then move South into the wooded area also, and pass Alpha Squad and continue to move South in the wooded area and to the Hangers area in Grid 047 127.The hangers area or compound will be completely cleared out by Bravo without exposing themselves to the Southern enemy, and the Hangers will be used as a jump of point to get into Balota.

                            When Bravo clears any enemy loitering near the Hangers, Alpha squad will then rally up and take up positions with Bravo around the Hangers and fight off any enemy from that area that can be seen.

                            When there's no more enemy to engage from the Hanger area, one Squad, which ever one is closest to full strength,we will use Alpha as an example, will then move to the neighborhoods in the North end of Balota by traveling cover to cover along the roads.Alpha will fight its way to the main highway that goes through Balota, but will not cross it yet and will hold and defend the neighborhood in Grid 045 128 from within buildings or where ever there's good cover.

                            Bravo squad who is currently holding at the Hangers providing close over watch will then follow the same path Alpha squad took to get themselves into the North end of Balota, and Bravo will move to Alphas location, and when ready, Bravo will cross the main road and take up positions and hold in the neighborhood in Grid 045 129.Same thing with Bravo, they will look for good cover within buildings or any where else that is suitable.

                            When Bravo has that area secured, Alpha Squad will then make a push to Grid 044 129 and then hold and defend within buildings or where ever is a good position to preserve the soldier.

                            Both Squads will now be side by side with the objective pinned between them and the ocean in a short distance.From there which ever squad has better strength along with the explosives, will move in and secure the weapons cache area, and then rig it to blow sky high so everyone puts in their Oooo's and Awwwww's as they admire the bang :)

                            That's one of many plans that can be formed, and the West side of the AO also looks like a good route to take, and would challenge the enemy to move into the open to engage the Allied Squads.

                            As for formations,I would leave it to the Squad leads initiative on what formation to adopt in this mission, as long as the Squad lead can keep everyone on the same path and concealed as they move in a cohesive unit, and as long as when there's contacts, the Squad gets in some kind of firing line and is able to engage the enemy quickly with all their weapons when the time comes.Within urban areas, I would strongly advise moving cover to cover in some form of bounding over watch.

                            And as for the Artillery, it could be dropped onto Balota as the Squads make their move to clear out the Hangers.It could be used as a good distraction as well as deny enemy movements in Balota as the Allied Squads take the Hangers.Mostly, the Artillery will be called upon when a good moment presents itself, and Command will make the final decision to allow or deny certain Artillery opportunities.

                            Also I do not know what the terrain really looks like, but hopefully the Squads will have good lines of fire and will be able to see a good distance so to avoid any ambushes.

                            That's my 2 cents that bought me a plan I would try and execute :)

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