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  • Fallout Mission Critiques

    Just wanted to make a dedicated thread for mikee so he can look at critiques of the mission. took some critiques other threads

    Thomas R Harper, Jr-
    Probably need to limit civilian use of communications unless they take if from the enemy caches. We used TS freely as there was not rule that said we couldn't (call it HAM radio).Since it is TvT, please make it playable only in veteran or expert so no map indicators help any faction see a full battle map ... I could see myself and blue force movements when I was independent suggesting a link between the two forces.Should civilians have maps? Would they in real life? Compass, Radio, GPS?.the briefing dies not suggest quite enough to give new players especially JIPs any idea of how they are to behave .. maybe that is appropriate, don't know. But the first time I played this I was totally lost as I joined after the briefing. Wandered around learning the map and factions .. next game was much better cause I now knew the map at least.

    Inq-
    Played it twice now, both for a couple of hours. I will make a list of the things I feel should be worked on or improved and well as suggestions. Please note I have never played Fallout so my ideas will be based purely on gameplay.
    * Get the civilian side sorted out - I suggest making them in groups of 10 and make them wasteland gangs. They would have a gang leader and if the leader sided with another faction they would all side with this faction. These gangs could also go renegade or be peace loving and join no faction. (This solves the problem of different sided civi's fighting each other at their spawn)
    * Sort the Ammo & Weapon issues - I would make the ammo boxes local and only accessible to the faction that owns them. Ofcourse you can keep some random caches global and avalible to everyone.
    * Quests - The fuel trucks... It seems like a good idea for a map like this but in the attempts ive played - the mission never ends because the fuel trucks get damaged or destroyed. I would make the trucks either respawn or make them indestructible just to keep gameplay flowing.
    * General tweaks - I would remove the ACE unit tracking markers, I would perhaps change the long music to a clip for the intro and then have some kind of ambience music track running through the mission while you play, Like desert winds or something.
    * The Future - There is a lot of scripted stuff you could do with this mission. Some I could help with and some I would know nothing about. Things like adding an action to the leaders of each faction (OP,BLU,IND) that let civilians activate a script that moves them into the group of that faction. Also other scripts like one for picking up spare parts that let you repair a vehicle etc

    Sc[ + ]pe-
    -remove everything but a map from all respawns, including compasses, watches, and radios
    -create random caches that include more diverse equipment, like claymores, smoke grenades, chemlights, batteries, or binoculars
    -introduce the ACE medical system, and add medical supplies to caches
    -remove the fuel truck objective and instead make something that's a little more passive -- ie. an objective in which there is no "set" way to accomplish it. I could recommend making each outpost/camp/city worth a certain number of points to the team holding it. To hold an objective, you need to approach X building and toggle its state from civilian to one of the three factions. Think of it like a big light switch. I would suggest this method so that civilians could choose to independently inhabit (and thus impede) faction progress, choose to surrender, or operate under any particular faction
    -remove looping audio
    -give us some way to repair vehicles, for the love of God
    If you wanna find me off TG
    Xbox live- fusionpo0
    Steam Username - 0hilla27/fusionpoo
    Xfire - fusionpoo

  • #2
    Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

    Aside from those mentioned, I want to keep fuel trucks but perhaps add a time limit? Add some mission parameters to choose time limit in 30 minute increments.
    |TG-73rd|Socomseal
    |TG-73rd Member| Former TG Irregular ArmA Platoon Leader| Former TG ArmA Admin XO| TG Pathfinder - Spartan 1 |TGU ArmA Instructor |Former TG-18th Member| |Former TG-1st Member|

    "Its easy to argue about issues from afar. But until you have experienced the issue first hand, you have not seen all the facts."

    Carver you will be cut off for a long time before reinforcements can reach you "I am the reinforcements the main force is only coming to bring me body bags and to clean up the mess Im about to make" - General Carver

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

      Thank you guys fall all feedback, still waiting for more. I'm already working on Version 2.0 :).

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

        Originally posted by socomseal93 View Post
        Aside from those mentioned, I want to keep fuel trucks but perhaps add a time limit? Add some mission parameters to choose time limit in 30 minute increments.
        I didn't really wanted to give time limit. When making this mission, I thought about free world, where you can organize in groups, look for medications, equipment etc... :).

        However, I will make trucks either indestructible or respawn, so mission can actually be ended. Also, I will add few more smaller objectives for each of the sides.

        I used F2 template for briefing, and JIP's couldn't see it. Can you help me guys out with JIP briefing?

        --------------

        I also thought about making INSTANT respawn, but extend time to 3 min. This way we will keep people in groups together.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

          Originally posted by Mikee View Post
          I didn't really wanted to give time limit. When making this mission, I thought about free world, where you can organize in groups, look for medications, equipment etc... :).

          However, I will make trucks either indestructible or respawn, so mission can actually be ended. Also, I will add few more smaller objectives for each of the sides.

          I used F2 template for briefing, and JIP's couldn't see it. Can you help me guys out with JIP briefing?

          --------------

          I also thought about making INSTANT respawn, but extend time to 3 min. This way we will keep people in groups together.
          As far as im aware Mikee to fix the briefing add this to the top of the init:


          if (!isDedicated && (player != player)) then
          {
          waitUntil {player == player};
          waitUntil {time > 10};
          };

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

            Originally posted by Inq View Post
            As far as im aware Mikee to fix the briefing add this to the top of the init:


            if (!isDedicated && (player != player)) then
            {
            waitUntil {player == player};
            waitUntil {time > 10};
            };
            Thx Inq :).

            After reading other thread, I thought that civilians start in groups, add punishment system for teamkilling and give them clear tasks. Gameplay would change for better.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

              Originally posted by Mikee View Post
              Thx Inq :).

              After reading other thread, I thought that civilians start in groups, add punishment system for teamkilling and give them clear tasks. Gameplay would change for better.
              Well actually it was nice that the civilians or the wasteland wanderers could do what ever the liked including attacking each other. If you want to avoid the TK messeges I think you can set them to renegade mode by giving them negative rating.

              This meens the civilians would be everyones enemy including each other but since there is no AI it would not matter so much and it would be up to the players of the other factions to befriend them or kill them.

              Did you think anymore about adding the civilians as gangs? (AKA small groups with a leader)

              Edit: Also if you want to remove ACE player tracking markers add this to the Init:


              ace_sys_tracking_markers_enabled = false;

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

                Originally posted by Inq View Post
                [b]
                if (!isDedicated && (player != player)) then
                {
                waitUntil {player == player};
                waitUntil {time > 10};
                };
                This would make briefing show up 10 seconds into the mission, while I assume it's preferred that briefing shows up during briefing. Try putting this to the beginning of init.sqf(assuming you run briefing from there):

                Code:
                finishMissionInit;
                if (not isDedicated) then
                {
                	waitUntil{(not isNull player) and (player == player)};
                };

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

                  Originally posted by Inq View Post
                  Well actually it was nice that the civilians or the wasteland wanderers could do what ever the liked including attacking each other. If you want to avoid the TK messeges I think you can set them to renegade mode by giving them negative rating.

                  This meens the civilians would be everyones enemy including each other but since there is no AI it would not matter so much and it would be up to the players of the other factions to befriend them or kill them.

                  Did you think anymore about adding the civilians as gangs? (AKA small groups with a leader)

                  Edit: Also if you want to remove ACE player tracking markers add this to the Init:


                  ace_sys_tracking_markers_enabled = false;
                  Thx. Do you know how to set automatically mission in veteran mode?

                  Yes, I will have civilians start in small 3 or 4 people groups. This way we will have them cooperating with eachother :).


                  Originally posted by Fincuan View Post
                  This would make briefing show up 10 seconds into the mission, while I assume it's preferred that briefing shows up during briefing. Try putting this to the beginning of init.sqf(assuming you run briefing from there):

                  Code:
                  finishMissionInit;
                  if (not isDedicated) then
                  {
                  	waitUntil{(not isNull player) and (player == player)};
                  };
                  Thanks, hopefull it it will work :).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

                    Originally posted by Fincuan View Post
                    This would make briefing show up 10 seconds into the mission, while I assume it's preferred that briefing shows up during briefing. Try putting this to the beginning of init.sqf(assuming you run briefing from there)
                    Have you tested it because thats not what it does... I use it in my missions. Its used in Xeno missions like this.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

                      Im no good at mission editing but maybe have ACE medical system with limited medical supplies which would force bartering ammo and vehicles for fuel and medicence (which people end up doing sometimes) and with limited supplies the groups with supplies would be dominant.

                      Also maybe add capturing places like the fort since we organised to take it once but thier was no real sign that we owned it which lead to tresspassing raiders who we thought were attacking and shot on sight.

                      Its still a great mission as it is
                      To talk to me or just hurl Abuse my way get me on Xfire:Hashass1n






                      I can't read, can't write, can't be an officer -NCO of the Vistula Uhlans Jan Pawlikowski

                      Mute since the universe began

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

                        Suggestions:

                        RESPAWNING

                        When respawning consider having player lose weapon loadout. Respawn at base and have to rearm. If base cache is destructable and I believe they are this will chorten game if someone manages to take out cache.

                        Perhaps, a limited number or respawns per team or for game total rather than a time limit. Is there way to set max respawns used as a loss/victory condition as in if you exceed x number of respawns per team mate on your team ... you lose.

                        FUEL TRUCKS

                        Not sure how to put this. They need to be destructible, so you can shoot out tires to keep otherfs from stealing them. But victory conditions need to allow for control of all remaining trucks to equal victory. That way if one gets accidently blown up, you can still win or lose the game.

                        CIVILIANS

                        Civilians need comms, so, let them have them ONLY if they have radios. Take from dead, take from faction caches. Make as least a policy where civilians may not use comms unless they possess a radio.

                        GLOBAL CHANNEL RADIO FREE WASTLANDIA)

                        The radio show propaganda thing was quite interesting. I think it needs to be allowed but maybe a time limit and fequency limit on how often a broadcast can be made.
                        Comms between factions worked well and should stay on GLOBAL.

                        BRIEFINGS for JIPs

                        I think you fixed this. They need a good briefing and should have to read it. Otherwise, they will be totally lost .. not sure this is bad but since they have no comms it becomes problematic for the JIP player who is new.

                        MAPS

                        Should all factions have MAPS. Should civilians ... can they communicate by map? If they have one. Should they have to capture a map from dead faction peson of cache? Compass and watch is cool but not sure every civilian would have a tactical map? Perhaps a map in their briefing but none in game unless they "find" one. And a note that they have to "memorize map" or sketch a simple copy since they wil nto have one in game .. not sure how to do this.

                        TANK (the elephant)

                        Is there a tank in this mission? I seem to remember an unfueled tank somewhere in a first days play that people were fight over and trying to get fuel to. My mind may be going here.

                        MEDICAL:

                        Frustrating. We did not have any apparant medics. Lots of supplies no one could figure out how to heal anyone. Distracting. Need medic type and I suggest a doctor for civilians since they get shot a lot. Is ACE 2 medical implemanted in your mission .. medic module?

                        COMMENTS:

                        Please read the after action report on [TG]B's post entitled "The best of games. The worst of games." This game plays hell with peoples decisions. It is a great map and I believe a great mission. I believe it will become and stay a classic. So, don't tinker with it too much. It is making the "run and gunners" who normally play TvT nuts. Tactics work on the map but it requires something more and I don't know how to describe that factor.

                        This is a thought provoking map and mission.

                        It impassions those who play it.
                        "The unexamined life is not worth living". Socrates. "The unlived life is not worth examining". |TG| tiggr

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

                          Thats how Fallout version 2.0 looks at the moment, more to be added:
                          RESPAWNING

                          Respawn time will be longer, so people will actually think if killing everyone around is worth it. Players will lose weapon loadout. They will have to rearm at base. Weapon crates are indestructible and local. Local? example -> only Raiders will have access to weapon crate at their base. (Thx for Inq) There is going to be few weapon crates around the wasteland that are accessable for everyone.

                          FUEL TRUCKS

                          Fuel Trucks will be indestructible. If dammaged more than 90%, they will be repaired in 45 sec.

                          CIVILIANS

                          There is going to be 5 groups of civilians, 4-5-6 people each. They are going to be families and every group will have leader. This will enforce civilians to listen their leader and they will not just run around and kill people. Civilians don't respawn at Church anymore. Now every group will respawn at their town. (again, thx for Inq). I don't know how get radios to work, but I can try it.

                          GLOBAL CHANNEL RADIO FREE WASTLANDIA

                          Global Channel is going to be used only for Radio show propaganda. Admins will need to enforce this rule, that nothing can be written or said on Global Channel except Radio informations.

                          BRIEFINGS for JIPs

                          Briefing for JIP's should work for now.

                          MAPS

                          I will let civilians to keep the Maps, but they will not see ACE Markers anymore. So, they will not be able to see their or other civilians position on map.

                          MEDICAL

                          Yes, there is going to be medical module. I'm just afraid that ACE Medical has bug. After long time of playing, you can die only from one shot. So, we should wait for ACE team to fix it. Unless, you guys don't care, then I will put Medical module in the mission.

                          OTHER

                          There is going to be more random caches with claymores, mines, etc...
                          Last edited by Mikee; 12-28-2009, 07:32 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

                            Originally posted by Inq View Post
                            Have you tested it because thats not what it does... I use it in my missions. Its used in Xeno missions like this.
                            No I didn't test it. It most likely works fine for JIP, but based on what I know not necessarily for players who are present at mission start: player != player is sometimes, very rarely but sometimes, true for "normal" players when init.sqf is run. More research is still needed on what exactly causes it, but it looks like desync at mission start contributes to this. If this is the case the script would enter the "if"-part. Since this is the beginning of the mission time is 0 until the mission is actually started, and thus the briefing appears 10 seconds after we're actually in the mission. JIP would go straight into the mission and time would be well past 10, so no problem there.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fallout Mission Critiques

                              Originally posted by Mikee View Post
                              RESPAWNING

                              Respawn time will be longer, so people will actually think if killing everyone around is worth it. Players will lose weapon loadout. They will have to rearm at base. Weapon crates are indestructible and local. Local? example -> only Raiders will have access to weapon crate at their base. (Thx for Inq) There is going to be few weapon crates around the wasteland that are accessable for everyone.

                              FUEL TRUCKS

                              Fuel Trucks will be indestructible. If dammaged more than 90%, they will be repaired in 45 sec.

                              CIVILIANS

                              There is going to be 5 groups of civilians, 4-5-6 people each. They are going to be families and every group will have leader. This will enforce civilians to listen their leader and they will not just run around and kill people. Civilians don't respawn at Church anymore. Now every group will respawn at their town. (again, thx for Inq). I don't know how get radios to work, but I can try it.

                              GLOBAL CHANNEL RADIO FREE WASTLANDIA

                              Global Channel is going to be used only for Radio show propaganda. Admins will need to enforce this rule, that nothing can be written or said on Global Channel except Radio informations.

                              BRIEFINGS for JIPs

                              Briefing for JIP's should work for now.

                              MAPS

                              I will let civilians to keep the Maps, but they will not see ACE Markers anymore. So, they will not be able to see their or other civilians position on map.

                              MEDICAL

                              Yes, there is going to be medical module. I'm just afraid that ACE Medical has bug. After long time of playing, you can die only from one shot. So, we should wait for ACE team to fix it. Unless, you guys don't care, then I will put Medical module in the mission.

                              OTHER

                              There is going to be more random caches with claymores, mines, etc...

                              Yes, there is an old T34 tank with limited amunition in Fort Bannister. It needs fuel.
                              Hah, everyone is going to run to Ft. Bannister now. :)

                              As for my input:

                              I liked the mission a lot. Was interesting for both civvie and opfor sides I played on. Running around gathering up all the weapons and vehicles you could, joining up with 1 force only to betray them to another as a civvie. And using good teamwork, finding where all the fuel trucks are to take back to your base while defending both your fuel trucks and base from the blufor and crazy civvies as opfor.

                              Really looking forward to more updates.

                              Comment

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