Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

TvT and Respawn

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • TvT and Respawn

    After putting quite a bit of thought into how respawn works in a TvT environment, I have come up with a respawn system that I would like you guys to critique.

    I've experimented with TONS of respawn systems in the past, with mixed results. Difficulties usually centre around: players too far from action, players too close to action, force some players to play boring roles, require specific assets (ie: helicopters), too complex to use properly, and plain old broken and buggy.

    One system I have been avoiding because of bad memories from BF2 is the squad leader spawning idea. Now, before you cringe in distaste, read the idea.


    Basically, the respawn system will rely upon the squad leader choosing when and where to respawn their squadmates - this is probably the main point of failure I can see to the system, more on that later though.

    The system works as such:

    You die or JIP, you wait your respawn timer (if you died), you respawn into a pen with other dead/JIP players. This could be segregated by team or not, probably a good idea to segregate in order to preserve the "serious mode". You wait in the pen with a hint (silent of course!) which explains why you are there: "You are waiting for your Squad Leader to respawn you" (or something similar). The squad leader will have an action in their action menu (bright green text with a title that appears when the action is available, so they know when they need to use it).

    The conditions for the respawn action to be present are simple:
    1. You have someone in your squad needing a respawn
    2. There is no enemy within x meters of your position (ie: 500 meters)

    If those conditions are satisfied, the action appears. When you press the action, your squadmates are teleported to your position.



    The goals of this system are as such:
    - Promote group cohesion
    - Easy to use
    - As non-exploitable as possible
    - As bug-free as possible
    - Does not delegate players to a "boring" job or require specific assets
    - Does not allow for players to be respawned into a heated firefight
    - Allows the enemy to effectively destroy a squad


    I think the above system reaches these goals. Does anybody see it differently? Or better yet, have other ideas for respawn systems that meet the above goals?

  • #2
    Re: TvT and Respawn

    I'm not a fan of this idea. If you have two groups fight it out at an objective and one sides soundly defeats the other with exception of the squad leader. He can retreat and have his team come back. Thats one of the main things I like about no respawn tvt when you win you win. I tend to like the idea of large maps were you respawn at a "main base". It keeps the feeling of norespawn tvt without the 30-60 minute planning stages everytime you want to start a new one. As far as boring roles, this is really up to the individual. There is usually someone willing to fill this role, and don't mind doing it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: TvT and Respawn

      Sometimes, but not always. That is the bad part.

      What if your driver/pilot/important role here disconnects, goes AFK, etc.? You are SOL and have to walk now. This has happened on numerous occasions in missions of the past. It has caused a mission to stagnate and fail and people lost interest and left.

      As for the sound defeat and the enemy coming back ... well, yes, that is kind of the point. You can soundly defeat an enemy, but if you are not in a position to complete the objective, the battle is indecisive and is fought again. Your reward is making the enemy retreat and re-group, not a win because there is no one left to fight.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TvT and Respawn

        500 meters though is nothing, you can hang back as an sl and be a spawn point, running wave after wave of troops in. It turns it into battlefield lite. Spawning then somewhere far away forces them to reform and regroup, and eliminates a lot of the tard rushing that is prevalent in re-spawn style game-play. If were going to do you idea I would boost it up to no enemy presence with say 1 klick. Generally though its just feels bad to me to have them magically appear next to a squad leader. Maybe have them paradrop in next to the squad leader at least.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: TvT and Respawn

          The distances would depend entirely on the terrain.

          500m in a city is far different than 500m in the desert. This can be tailored to each mission. And again, simply because they are far away doesn't mean they will act cohesively. Worst-case scenario: you have no method of getting to the front aside from walking (or even worse, 1 man vehicle train), you have a string of single players slowly walking to where their SL is. In most games, that is what usually happens, players simply don't wait around for their squad to die, they want to go and help them.

          Paradropping players leads to problems. Quite mission specific. What if the mission takes place around a lot of woods? 80% of your respawns will lead immediately to another one as you landed on a tree, fell out of your chute and died.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TvT and Respawn

            what if the SL dies?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: TvT and Respawn

              Originally posted by browna3 View Post
              what if the SL dies?
              I guess he could have a system where it detects the SL is present within the respawn holding pen and then teleports the whole squad back to the start location of the mission.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TvT and Respawn

                Ah, yeah, that part is also simple. If the SL dies, they respawn at a "main base" style area, where any mission assets would respawn (trucks, APCs, etc.).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: TvT and Respawn

                  No argument within a city, hell 200 meters might be a bit much in a city ,but more 90% of the maps and terrain on them 1 klick seems a good distance. You are right longer distance doesn't mean they will act cohesively, but I don't belive in lowering the bar to fix problems that should be fixed by players them selves. Yes spawning them off the SL does put them together, but also does not make them act cohesively. I'm not saying its a bad idea beta, I just perfer to make it harder on players not give them a crutch. My main goal in tvt missions I make is to get the feeling of a norespawn TVT without the pain of repeated 30-60 minute planning periods. It requires players to be patient and diciplined. I'm not sure if the playerbase we have here is up to that challenege but I would like to see them get there. Best thing to do is make the mission and get feedback from the playerbase, see what they think. I know your idea will work and should work well, its been repeated in the BF series and what your talking about almost exactly mimics the current ralley point system in pr.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TvT and Respawn

                    Originally posted by johnflenaly View Post
                    You are right longer distance doesn't mean they will act cohesively, but I don't belive in lowering the bar to fix problems that should be fixed by players them selves.
                    qft

                    TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

                    Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

                    "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TvT and Respawn

                      Will have to see it in action- appears sound in theory.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TvT and Respawn

                        I understand where you are coming from johnflenaly, but I think there is something wrong with TvT as it is now at TG. It isn't played. There are reasons for that, I think one of them is the general inaccessability and long periods of "hurry up and wait" involved in it.

                        Basically, it's cool to set the bar high, but if no one can reach it, they stop trying. Lower the bar, then when people crave something more complex or challenging, those more "difficult" missions can be designed and played the way they are meant.

                        All my opinion of course, but I am just trying to find ways to solve the current TvT conundrum. Not the first time it has "died" in the TG scene, and if something isn't changed in how it's done, it won't be the last.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: TvT and Respawn

                          The current TvT conundrum is not the actual games itself but rather the dislike towards TvT game type in general.
                          No matter which version of TvT is chosen (JIP, No-JIP, Respawn, No-Respawn, teleport to another map etc), most nay-sayers will disconnect only to reconnect as soon as it is over. Personally, I believe it has to do with players dislike towards playing against "better-AIs" and unwillingness to work as a team.

                          my 2 personal cents...

                          TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

                          Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

                          "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: TvT and Respawn

                            I'll concure with low speed here, I think a lot of it is the quickness of TVT. When things go back they go bad almost instantly as a human opfor reacts much quicker. A lot of time your left going WFT just happened.

                            Comment

                            Connect

                            Collapse

                            TeamSpeak 3 Server

                            Collapse

                            Advertisement

                            Collapse

                            Twitter Feed

                            Collapse

                            Working...
                            X