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  • Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

    I think we should remove the waypoint marker feature from our server, US137. It's not a light statement to make, as this feature makes a lot of things easier in DayZ. However ... it makes for a less fun game, and it does not fit in with the TG Primer.

    For reference, this is how waypoint markers work in the ARMA2 engine right now: press M to bring up the map, hold left-shift and left-click once with the mouse to place a marker on the map. This marker is only visible to the player that places it. Once the map is removed, there is an arrow that shows the direction of that marker in the 3D world, and the distance between the player's current position and the marker. This feature has been "used" for a wide variety of of purposes: from meeting up as a group, finding out where your player is currently, to ranging a sniper rifle.

    I'm making the argument that this feature makes the game both less fun, and it does not comply with our primer. Here's why.

    DayZ is a survival game, and survival is based on scavenging and using the tools we find to survive. By using the waypoint markers, we obsolete some of the rarest and most important items that can be scavenged: the GPS, the rangefinder, and the compass. The waypoint marker can be "used" to achieve the same goal as those tools, and I believe that makes a survival game less fun. I think it would be more fun if we relied on the tools that can be found in the game instead of artificial, 4th-wall-breaking technology to survive.

    In addition to making the ingame tools more valuable, I think removing this tool forces us to play smarter. A vehicle will need a dedicated navigator. The players will become more attuned to giving accurate current location information. It will force us to be more institutionally aware by paying attention to landmarks instead of chasing a green arrow for minutes at a time, without looking at the surroundings. It will make sniper teams actual teams - one with a rangefinder for to identify locations of targets quickly, and a shooter that ranges the rifle based on that info.

    It's not lightly that I write the above, and I'll freely admit I use waypoint markers right now for all of the terrible things listed above. In addition to that damning statement, I come from BF2142/BC2 - not exactly realism or authenticity grounded games - so the above is probably even more candid.

    Let's get a constructive conversation going. Maybe there's middle ground to be found, maybe this would be terrible newbie-unfriendly. Right now, I'm resigned this is the right call to make: it would make the game more interesting, and it is more intune with our gameplay philosophy.

  • #2
    Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

    I agree.

    This feature can actually render some of the other gear less useful.

    Compass -- Don't need a compass if I can just set waypoints to where I want to go.
    GPS -- Just continue setting waypoints until you figure out your coordinates.
    Range Finder -- Just use the map to get a range.

    However... I'm currently without a compass, GPS, or range finder... so until I can secure this loot let's hold off on the change. :icon_lol:
    |TG-12th| asch
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    • #3
      Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

      I was oppossed to its inclusion in the server and try to not use it.

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      • #4
        Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

        Id be down with that. im all for more immersion (as W6 calls it).

        I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

        Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
        J.F.C. Fuller

        Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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        • #5
          Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

          Works for me.

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          • #6
            Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

            This is a very interesting concept you are proposing and I am sure the objections will be many and I will miss it dearly. The only advantage I see to learning to traverse around the map without it is purely a defensive reason as to hamper outside groups the advantage of using it against us on our server. If they enter our server and are totally disoriented because that feature is not there I know they would probably retreat without us firing a shot.

            We will have to learn to move and navigate by the seat of our pants and get use to it.

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            • #7
              Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

              The waypoints are one of those things where I'll use them if they're in place but I don't particularly care if they're there or not. I'd be okay with their removal.

              "Over the din of battle could be heard Lancerís maniacal laughter and it spurned us on to stay the course, not to give up, and enjoy." - Grimmfist

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              • #8
                Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

                This suggestion in my opinion looks like it might be more TG style as we collectivly are more aware on the whole. I have to agree it was nice to use this feature to do pickup/rescue missions as the person who was in trouble could give a landmark, I could ping it and get to the person to extract him back to his corpse in a very timely manner. But as of late I use my GPS more and more and just go off map grids to facilitate my location direction and destination. Mind you not everyone had a GPS either this would make life hard for those individuals who only have a map and nothing else to go by other than landmarks and forced to trek the edge of roads to get where they intend to go, which again is more of the "immersion" of the survivor game play.

                only my 2bits

                Volchok 1stMIP Private
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                • #9
                  Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

                  I think a vote would work as it was originally justified to me as a way to ease players into the game.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

                    37 days of surviving and I have never even had a map before, so removing it seems fine with me.



                    Former TG-21st
                    Swift Mobile On Target

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                    • #11
                      Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

                      I am geographically stupid in game and in real life (despite having taught map and compass several times to the cub scouts as well as astronomy). This would hurt me pretty bad. Just my two cents :)
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                      • #12
                        Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

                        Fyi we dont generally do anything based off votes alone, we simply don't run our titles like that. That is not to say that a vote would not be helpful in gauging some peoples opinions. Trouble is it won't be everyone's opinions. I think the idea has merit, certainly from a 'realism & immersion' perspective.

                        However as regards potential impacts it will of course make the game harder initially (no bad thing) and will potentially temporarily degrade play as people literally get their bearings. When I say degrade play I of course mean it will hinder the completion of some tasks that require nav skills.

                        However, over time it should improve the depth of gameplay and the immersion as some people progress their nav skills and carve out point man/path finder roles for themselves due to an aptitude for this kind of thing.

                        Ultimately this title is under Apophis' jurisdiction at this point so he has the ear you need to bend lol.


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                        • #13
                          Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

                          As a player who wasn't informed about the 3D marker until I had been playing for many dayz, I think that experience of navigating an unfamiliar location using just a map was tremendous fun, and very good for immersion.

                          Finding the north star at night, using the position of the sun during the day, picking out landmarks... these are all great skills for us to learn (and teach) at TG.

                          Once I found the 3D markers it... felt like cheating.

                          Instead of
                          1) Ascertain location based on local landmarks
                          2) Find cardinal direction using sun / stars / relative landmarks
                          3) Start walking, taking periodic breaks to affirm progress

                          It became place marker, walk.

                          In regards to server protection... this might make it harder for enemies to find our tents in obscure locations.
                          Teamwork and Tactics are OP


                          Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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                          • #14
                            Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

                            Whats worse is using the out of game map while in game.

                            I deserve a ribbon for Mortar Specialist

                            Artillery conquers and infantry occupies.
                            J.F.C. Fuller

                            Proud to have been a member of the 5th, 71st and my beloved 19th

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                            • #15
                              Re: Regarding the 3D HUD waypoint markers

                              This idea has merit. At first I never knew about the marker and thought it was kinda iffy. Then I thought about it once I found my first GPS and came to the conclusion that it in fact is somewhat realistic if you have a GPS. It seems realistic to me because any hand held GPS unit can give you the exact direction to walk and the exact distant you have to go nowadays. So if there is a way to disable if only for people that don't have GPSs then I say do it but if not I say leave it because most players have GPSs anyways.
                              I do not have any ribbons because the TG Ribbons department has not created one for being a boss.

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