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Can you survive these TE's?

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  • Can you survive these TE's?

    Looking for an A-A challenge? Try these:

    1) Try to survive the AIM120 training mission. You'll need to fire on all four bogeys lightning-fast as soon as they get in range, or you're toast. I don't think you get any 9M's or guns either, so if one AIM120 misses, you're toast! The trick is knowing when to fire. If they're too far out, you'll most likely miss. Wait too long and they'll be on your six before you can say Jack Robinson.

    2) Try to survive the A-A Radar Modes training mission. This one's even tougher, if you ask me. You'll have multiple Mig's (not the guy from Silence Of The Lambs) closing on you immediately, high aspect and very close and fast.

    These TE's were designed for learning how to use the weapons/radar and not for surviving the engagement, but it's fun to try. I've never successful defeated all the bogey's in either one, but I have come pretty close. Then again, I will not be accused any time soon of being an A-A wiz, either.
    [volun]

  • #2
    Re: Can you survive these TE's?

    Heh, I tried to "beat" the AA radar modes training mission like 15 times before I gave up. If anyone is able to splash all the Mig's in that mission they would indeed be an Ace. Maybe one of these days i'll be that good. I need practice, practice, practice.

    -Aces&Eights

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    • #3
      Re: Can you survive these TE's?

      I guess the gauntlet has been thrown. I've gotten 3 or four of them but always get shot down with two on my six by the time I get that far.
      New to TG?

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      • #4
        Re: Can you survive these TE's?

        Got all 4 on the 3rd try. Further along though there's another pair (and maybe another pair after that). Thought I'd try guns but there missiles got me.

        Remember to use the Jammer. I fired the missile off on the first lot so close they went 'pitbull', I used TWS and the zoom view, as well as using the padlock. When I got in close i pressed D for dogfight mode. I tried to record a track but the recorder kept turning itself off for some reason.
        Jex.

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        • #5
          Re: Can you survive these TE's?

          Ok, now I have to go look up "pitbull", heh.

          and this is probably a stupid question but, what is Padlock view?? I have heard that mentioned before.

          -Aces&Eights

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          • #6
            Re: Can you survive these TE's?

            Where can you download these TE's????

            Flint

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            • #7
              Re: Can you survive these TE's?

              Flint, they're under the Training tab in F4AF - numbers 13 and 16.
              [volun]

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              • #8
                Re: Can you survive these TE's?

                Thanks!

                Flint

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                • #9
                  Re: Can you survive these TE's?

                  Originally posted by Aces&Eights
                  Ok, now I have to go look up "pitbull", heh.

                  and this is probably a stupid question but, what is Padlock view?? I have heard that mentioned before.

                  -Aces&Eights
                  Pitbull
                  The "Pitbull" call is when your AIM120 has gone autonomous.

                  The Amraam is fired from the launching aircraft and initially, it requires the launch craft to keep the lock going. This is because the amraam's own radar is not powerful enough and only activate when it reaches a certain distance from the target, at which time "pitball" is called and you can then forget about your missile.

                  Now you can turn off your radar straight after launch. The amraam will then fly a straight course and when it gets to the predetermined point, it will "go active", switch on it's own seeker head and lock onto any target it sees in it's FOV. The trouble here is that 2 things can go wrong

                  1) The target aircraft is no longer where it should be because it changed course. The seeker head can find nothing if there is nothing there. This is why allowing the amraam to be guided by the F16 radar at the initial stages increase the PK (Probability of Kill I think that means)

                  2) A friendly aircraft happens to be in the area also. The amraam may lock onto this and you'll kill a friendly.

                  I think the call is "Maddog" for an amraam launched under no radar guidance.

                  Padlock

                  Real pilots don't have the limit of a monitor screen of pixel resolution when they fly. As a result they could probably tell you the difference between a Mig-29 and an Su-27 from miles away. Virtual pilots don't have this luxury but we do have padlock.

                  Padlock is activated by pressing the '4' key. In A-A mode it will switch to each air target within 8 miles, in A-G mode it will padlock ground targets.

                  Padlock switches you to the 3D cockpit and stays locked on the selected aircraft. A small square is place over the target (red=enemy, blue=friendly). An example works like this.

                  If I am flying level with you off your 3 o'clock and you have me padlocked, your view will be looking over your right shoulder. Now if I accelerate and turn across your nose, going high over you to saddle up on your 9 o'clock, Padlock view will track that move.

                  It basically allows you to keep you're eye on the target which is extremely important in a dogfght. Loose SA and you loose the fight - it's that simple.

                  Now the problem with padlock is that if the target is behind you, you're looking backwards. Many pilots have flown themselves into the ground this way.

                  '9' on the numpad allows you to glance forward. Hold it down to glance, release to snap back to the target.

                  Try it next time you're up
                  Last edited by jex; 02-02-2006, 02:10 PM.
                  Jex.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Can you survive these TE's?

                    Hey Jex,

                    Thanks for the info on the AIM120s and what PitBull means. It brings up another question in my mind: Is there a way to determine when the 120 has gone autonymous in the HUD? There have been several times when I have launched a 120 at a far off target and because of other priorities, I have immediately locked on to something else or even turned my radar off. I am sure this would explain why at least some of my 120s have missed in the past when I figured they were sure to hit.

                    Another question: Does this essentially mean that dogfighting with 120s is useless if your radar is off? (If you just let the 120 fly, is the time it takes to go autonomous short enough that you might somehow have a prayer of hitting a mig in a furball?)

                    Finally,for some reason I don't have nearly the hit-miss ratio I would like using AGM-88 Harms. I always thought that not only were they autonomous to start with, that they were also actually the source of your HTS data... I am wondering if I am wrong and need to stay locked onto the ground target longer then I have been doing.

                    Thanks,
                    Fuzzy

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                    • #11
                      Re: Can you survive these TE's?

                      Hey Fuzzy-

                      I think Jex might still be having computer problems, so I'll take a shot at your questions:

                      You should get a HUD indicator when you launch an AIM-120. It will consist of either an "A" or a "T" and a timer counting down. If you have an "A," the missile is relying on your aircraft radar and the countdown timer is telling you how long until the missile goes autonomous. If you break lock at this point, you stand a good chance of missing. When the "A" turns to a "T" (PITBULL), the missile has gone autonomous and the timer now indicates time to target. You are safe to break lock.

                      My understanding is that you can launch a AIM-120 at a close-in bandit with the radar snoozed and it will seek out the target on its own...however it could lock onto a friendly if one's in the same vicinity! So I'd be cautious about it...

                      HARM's are autonomous from launch so it's cool to break lock as soon as you fire. Make sure the target is radiating before you fire - the "S" symbol in the HTS will be bright if it's radiating. If it's dim and you launch, you stand a real good chance of missing. Also if the symbol goes dim while the missile is inbound (dude at the SAM site pulls the plug), you'll probably miss as well, and there's not much to be done about that.

                      Incidentally if the symbol has a diamond around it it's tracking you specifically, so get ready to dodge. The symbol blinks if the SAM site has launched and it's time to get low.

                      Pretty sure that's right, but it's all from memory. Hope this helps.
                      [volun]

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                      • #12
                        Re: Can you survive these TE's?

                        In fact the brevity for launching a AIM120 without the radar lock is "MADDOG"
                        Jex.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Can you survive these TE's?

                          I don't know if this is common knowlege or not, but when you are in te 3D pit adn padlocked, you can loose track or orientation and speed pretty quickly. in this case, hit shift 3 to get the SA bar up, which has an AH, AOA, ASI, Altimeter and a graphic showing where you are looking out of the pit, works really well.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Can you survive these TE's?

                            Originally posted by Ivan
                            I don't know if this is common knowlege or not, but when you are in te 3D pit adn padlocked, you can loose track or orientation and speed pretty quickly. in this case, hit shift 3 to get the SA bar up, which has an AH, AOA, ASI, Altimeter and a graphic showing where you are looking out of the pit, works really well.
                            Try using the glance forward key (NUM 9), it lets you snap back to the hud.
                            Jex.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Can you survive these TE's?

                              Originally posted by TG_PolishBoogieman
                              Looking for an A-A challenge? Try these:

                              1) Try to survive the AIM120 training mission. You'll need to fire on all four bogeys lightning-fast as soon as they get in range, or you're toast. I don't think you get any 9M's or guns either, so if one AIM120 misses, you're toast! The trick is knowing when to fire. If they're too far out, you'll most likely miss. Wait too long and they'll be on your six before you can say Jack Robinson.

                              These TE's were designed for learning how to use the weapons/radar and not for surviving the engagement, but it's fun to try. I've never successful defeated all the bogey's in either one, but I have come pretty close. Then again, I will not be accused any time soon of being an A-A wiz, either.
                              There seem to be 6 Migs in the AIM-120 mission and you only get 4 ammrams(Aim-120) and no guns. First two are Mig 25s at your 11.oclock and 10 miles behind them are two Mig 29s going head to head with you. 40 miles away are two more Mig 29s heading your way. Here are a couple of Acmi files of how I defeated all 6 Migs. Notice how I'm beaming the two 25s and only fire when they are at Pitbull range. The two 29s are trying to lock me up but I'm Jamming, climbing and beaming at the same time making them work there radars. As you can see not one of them fired a missile. The last two Migs also had a hard time finding me as you can see in the second tape. he he he.................. I'll be back flying as soon as I get my sound card fixed

                              Just extract the files in your Leadpursuit/battlefield operations/acmibin/Korea folder and replay in the ACMI Section of Falcon. Select Orbit view and lables for best viewing.
                              Last edited by Ridler; 04-03-2006, 12:44 PM.

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