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Operation Tool's Road

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  • Operation Tool's Road

    After joining a little late to find the Brits down to two flags (one on our side of the river and village) entrenched in a losing battle over train depot, I decided to step up to command.

    Soon enough I was able to determine that the cause of all our problems lie in the village, where a ruthless ambush was taking place. Immediately I ordered the deployment of a CSB as an alternate route, but this proved to be a long and painful process that ultimately took to long to be effective.

    After watching the tickets drop from failed assaults on train depot, I made the decision to pull everyone back to either defend our objective or clear village. One full infantry squad, and a recon light inf squad were down shortly after crossing the river. At one point i was standing outside the HESCO at the main entrance looking at my map and someone shot me with an AR or coax from the hill west of village.

    With no CSB I ordered our two tanks up to the river to provide fire support for the infantry squads but not to cross the river because it was too risky without the infantry clearing it out first. The assault team now consisted of two tanks, two full infantry squads, and a 3 or 4 man recon squad. One squad assaulted from the west, while the recon squad had infiltrated the eastern border of the village and another approached from the river south.

    One of our tanks get kicked for firing out of main, followed by me for ordering it. (lol, sorry tankers i owe you a beer)

    Ok, my question is this:

    What do we do in this situation? Once again Fool's Road bridge becomes an object of debate on what is too close to main and what is not. I'm sure everybody knows i'm no enemy of the ambush, but when it comes to breaking this particular one... what can we do?

    If the tanks can't get across the bridge, the only place to fire from is our side of the river... do we move them out west where they can't hit the guys on the other side of the hill, or drive them to their death by IED? Do we just park them, and send infantry around the problem to come in and flank... without armor support because they can't fire from main?

    Is this a situation where the map suddenly revolves around a flag that isn't really in play that often? The only solution I can come up with is to roll out at the start of the map and have a team to actively defend village. Maybe this is intended, or maybe I'm missing something.

    What other options are out there? This would seem to make it more of a coordinated effort by the british, where the militia could choose where to make life hard on them but village would be under constant assault.

  • #2
    Re: Operation Tool's Road

    It seems to me that the heart of the problem is that the ambushers are allowed by the rules to essentially block the tanks from doing anything from the very beginning of the map. The village is apparently a legitimate place for the ambushers to be, even though the flag isn't in play. It's considered "strategic" to mine the main supply line the british have. I'm fine with this, but it makes no sense that retaliation is futile.
    Semper Fi, Marines.

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    • #3
      Re: Operation Tool's Road

      Originally posted by Daishi2442 View Post
      It seems to me that the heart of the problem is that the ambushers are allowed by the rules to essentially block the tanks from doing anything from the very beginning of the map. The village is apparently a legitimate place for the ambushers to be, even though the flag isn't in play. It's considered "strategic" to mine the main supply line the british have. I'm fine with this, but it makes no sense that retaliation is futile.
      I wouldn't say futile, but it does make it considerably harder without the armor. I'm thinking the only two solutions here would be CSB, or a persistent defense on village. At least a small unit to monitor and watch for things like spandrels and ammo drops, or report infantry movements.

      *Edited to add*

      Of course another solution that comes to mind would be to extend the distance between the bridge and the "main" so that the armor can fire on enemy ambushers without having to cross the bridge first.

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      • #4
        Re: Operation Tool's Road

        I have no clue about this map, but to me it seems that this "bridge" is a strategic spot via the main supply route.

        Again, this is coming a little from my Arma playing so it might not work but what about utilizing counter ambushes, possibly using two or three 1-2 man squads for recon, para-dropping back into enemy lins for one group and have the others along the supply rout whos main goal is feeding info to you as the CO and defusing mines or ides that are placed by the counter insurgents?

        Again, my not work but it seems maybe focus your fight at points that are important to you and then attack....maybe in this case the good ole rush tactic may not be feasable and you have to take it a bit more slower and set up proper defenses that can be maned by the recon elements?

        I'm a little rusty on my PvP, so again this may not work! :)






        "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

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        • #5
          Re: Operation Tool's Road

          Originally posted by Jack Bauer View Post
          I have no clue about this map, but to me it seems that this "bridge" is a strategic spot via the main supply route.

          Again, this is coming a little from my Arma playing so it might not work but what about utilizing counter ambushes, possibly using two or three 1-2 man squads for recon, para-dropping back into enemy lins for one group and have the others along the supply rout whos main goal is feeding info to you as the CO and defusing mines or ides that are placed by the counter insurgents?

          Again, my not work but it seems maybe focus your fight at points that are important to you and then attack....maybe in this case the good ole rush tactic may not be feasable and you have to take it a bit more slower and set up proper defenses that can be maned by the recon elements?

          I'm a little rusty on my PvP, so again this may not work! :)
          I think the big problem is the placement of the bridge, and what appears to have been some debate by the devs over having the only bridge leaving main in or out of play. It's right on the dome of death, close enough that the enemy can run up and drop an ied and run back out. That IED has a 85m blast radius I believe, and it's right on the other end of the bridge.

          If it was just a bridge, and you could engage from either side it wouldn't be as big of a deal. As it is, it's so close to main that one side of it is actually IN the main base, from which we are not allowed to fire. If it were far enough away from the main we could move up and engage targets with armor while crossing the river with infantry and it would be less of a problem.

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          • #6
            Re: Operation Tool's Road

            Very good point, and please remember this is from a third party point of view, but why is it that the OpFOR deems it a nessacery to plant it right their so close to the main is there not other spots along the MSR that they can not plant and maybe have a bigger kill zone? One more question, how fast is this done? Is it a main objective to do when on the OpFOR?

            Next thing I can say is, this is simulated war environment, so once you leave main, maybe it means you might have start to take it more carefully when leaving the main, after all your in a hot zone once you leave the safety confines of your main. :)

            What about putting a MG or some sort of pill box contraption at the far end of the said bride to be maned by one of the recon teams I suggested in my first post?

            I can probably think about what the admins are thinking when the extension of the boundary for main comes up. :) but I also believe that more rules just cause more confusion :)






            "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Operation Tool's Road

              Yea, I salute you Alpha for going CO and trying to get the team operating effectively. I also salute you for not getting really pissed when those kicks came down... I have nothing else to say on the matter as it will serve no constructive purpose.
              Thanks again Alpha.
              Q: How many members of Congress does it take to change a light bulb?
              A: None. There is nothing wrong with the light bulb; its conditions are improving every day. Any reports of its lack of incandescence are delusional spin from the liberal media. That light bulb has served honorably, and anything you say undermines the lighting effort. Why do you hate freedom?!?

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              • #8
                Re: Operation Tool's Road

                This has been a problem with fools road since its birth. Btw i was the one ambushing and you did a pretty good job clearing village.
                -oG.WarrioR-


                |?|

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                • #9
                  Re: Operation Tool's Road

                  ive never been a fan of ambushing the villahe itself, if i ambush it i will block the paths out of the village, but not ied the only road over the bridge. i think that it is unfair to the other team. but you did a very good job CO ing. unfortunetly, our morters were on the ball that round.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Operation Tool's Road

                    There are three sides to this arguement.

                    1) Understanding and Upholding TG values.

                    We all know the rules and sometimes have to make crucial choices in game whether we uphold them and break the immersion of the game experience. Or hope our points of contention are valid enough to bend the rules. This usually ends up in one teams favor as since the OPFOR on this map did not get punished for firing into the blufor main before the flag was even in play. One could argue it was because no one reported the activity.

                    2) Commander Logic and Battle Strategy.

                    This was described in the OP and I think it's valid that the MAP has caused constant debate within this community. Time and Time again.

                    3) The Maps layout vs. Said Values, Logic and Execution of Strategy.

                    As a result of this maps layout, we constantly revisit the rules as if people don't understand them. Yet the rules themselves are constantly redefined. A SUB RULE actually had to be created BECAUSE OF THIS MAP! Both teams had people in the wrong. Yet only the Blufor was punished because they did NOT use the report function.

                    ______________________

                    OVERVIEW.

                    Why are we still playing this map?

                    It has changed the very basis of the rules we abide by and caused confusion, contention and debate over and over again.

                    My thoughts are. DROP THE MAP.

                    The 189th Infantry Brigade: Taking the 'the' out of psychotherapist since 2010.

                    XFire: mrthomasking

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                    • #11
                      Re: Operation Tool's Road

                      I do not usually do armor but squad kind of got hauled into it. We were going to follow out in a Warrior when the Tank Squad CTD'd and so did part of my squad, so I bailed from the Warrior as SL and ran to the tank which was sitting on the north end of bridge. I ordered my Squad member who was driving the Warrior back to main and I drove the tank back to main. I had my sm join me in the tank and we went west out of our main to over look Hill 91. We then went back to main and Alpha said there was enemy in Dylym and it needed to be cleaned. We moved to the south end of the bridge and my gunner took a shot and then we started to make our way cross the bridge. We were then kicked...
                      So I guess we're just supposed to cross without firing at all from the bridge? A bit ridiculous. It happened to the squad that I rescued the tank from before they CTD'd, they crossed all the way and got taken out on the Northend earlier in the round The bridge is now in play so if we're entering it we should be able to fire.
                      sigpic

                      OLD GUYS RULE!!!!

                      Humor is something that thrives between man's aspirations and his limitations. There is more logic in humor than in anything else. Because, you see, humor is truth. Victor Borge


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                      • #12
                        Re: Operation Tool's Road

                        Originally posted by TomKing View Post
                        OVERVIEW.

                        Why are we still playing this map?

                        It has changed the very basis of the rules we abide by and caused confusion, contention and debate over and over again.

                        My thoughts are. DROP THE MAP.
                        While I agree with much of your assessment I want to state that the map is hardly unfair to the british forces if their offensive power is strong enough or if the militia team isn't successful in this one strategic exploit (I do not mean exploit as in against the game but as just what I said, a powerful strategic plan). I do think that as a map it is very short sighted to allow just one exit from a water locked location only to be fed into one of two very easily exploited choke points, but thats just the imbalance required in such an asymetrical map.

                        I still think the map should be played, and that people should learn how to adapt strategies around this. Of course this means an organized Brit team from the start, but that doesn't require a commander, that only requires the squad leaders properly assessing the meaningful points of the battle. If that means a squad must play as a sweeper then they must play as a sweeper.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Operation Tool's Road

                          In my personal view the bridge and immediate exits from it should be off limits. If there is an IED at the bridge it's impossible to disarm and very easy for the trigger man to elude death and still get the kill. If the bridge is left alone there are still many points for the militia to ambush both village and routes out of village. Although I don't really like ambushing, for this particular map as long as you can cross the bridge safely and then from there use multiple sometimes difficult routes to the main battle area. Using the bridge and immediate exits are just easy kills with no real way to combat it. You can search for that sneaky CE but he can be near impossible to kill like I said early and can even use a spotter who's death won't remove the threat.
                          |TG-69th|chrisweb89


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                          • #14
                            Re: Operation Tool's Road

                            Well to be fair i must say your gunner took atleast 10 shots.
                            -oG.WarrioR-


                            |?|

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                            • #15
                              Re: Operation Tool's Road

                              Let's reverse this scenario.

                              Tank is RTBing through Village for ammo after having a great run with support from infantry and other squads. He gets on the bridge and crosses it to the British Main side. As soon as he crosses it, a Spandrel sitting in the water on the Northwest side of bridge hits him in the rear and kills him.

                              Is that fair to you? Would I not be hearing the angry tank gunner/driver and rest of British team complaining to admins about how ridiculous that was? You were across the bridge RTBing, in a doom of death, and still got killed when you weren't firing back at them.

                              It's easy to check for an IED at the end of the bridge. Roll up to the end of the bridge and check. If the bridge is blown, CSB it. If there is an IED, send infantry in to kill the CE guy and THEN move across the bridge to engage them. There is no excuse to fire from main MINUTES after being warned not to.
                              "If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the people to gather wood, divide the work, and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea."
                              -Antoine De Saint-Exupery

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