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  • BF3 vs. PR as we know it

    Hi,

    I tried BF3 a few times.

    I was wondering how the PR community feels about how it stacks up to PR as we know it / as we did know it and if you see it as a future replacement or potential mod-able game to replace the BF2 engine PR we know today.

    Would be an interesting conversation.

    T
    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

    BF3 has some nice new features and it looks good, but in the end it's 'vanilla', the reason I went from BF2 to PR in the first place. People having 10 rockets in their pockets, jumping out of moving vehicles etc. turns me off. Definatly gonna see how it plays out on TG though, but I doubt I will be playing it very long. Hopefully people will come back to PR if/when they get tired of BF3.

    And if people won't come back to PR, I'll go ArmA. But if BF3 becomes modable, then it's a completely different story.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

      I think BF3 is the best looking and best feeling shooter that I've ever played. I don't mean that it's the best game I've ever played, but running, jumping, diving, shooting; all of that "feels" better than every other game, and I really like it.

      It's an amazing looking and sounding game. The guns are awesome. The scopes, lasers, lights and all that are cool. The animations are great. It's just a great game.

      It's not PR though. If PR could use this engine, I think it would be the best game ever.

      We'll see what happens after BF3 has been out for awhile and people start playing one stupid map 24/7 and do the same old tired things. I don't think that BF3 will have the replayability of PR, but it will be a great game.

      Don't forget; PR would be absolutely nothing without BF2. It simply wouldn't exist. As Sir Isaac Newton said, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

      Let's hope that we all get to see a little bit further after the long awaited release of BF3.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

        PR is PR and BF3 is BF3. PR has been around going on 6 years now despite NUMEROUS titles (like 6 different CODs, and dozens of others) and despite all those...people still play it. There is no doubt in my mind that PR will still be there when the novelty of the new toy wears off. Sure its a HUGE title, been waiting for it for about as long as PR has been out. But I still don't doubt that people will time and time again come back to PR because it gives them something no other game can give...the median between run and gun and the extreme realism of games like ARMA2:ACE mod. We are all junkies that feed off of fun tactical play with our friends, both online and in person... that's why we're still here...still playing PR. Titles come and go, but PR is always there in the background tugging on our short leashes that it gives us.

        Just like Woody when the shiny "Buzz Lightyear" came on the scene! Sure Andy lost interest in Woody, but after some crazy adventures and lonely times for Woody...



        Andy came back to him and they all lived happily every after!



        Now isnt that nice? :D
        sigpic


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        • #5
          Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

          I got a Woody just thinking about it.

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          • #6
            Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

            Great analogy




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            • #7
              Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

              If we (they) get decent mod tools I see it as the future of PR. Doubt that'll happen though.

              After playing the beta, my initial opinion is pretty much unchanged - it will be awesome, but not as awesome as PR in it's vanilla state.

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              • #8
                Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

                Giving money to the very companies that are leading the competitive casualization of the gaming industry, leading to lack of innovation in gameplay, originality in story, and emphasis on GOOD GRAPHIX?

                Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
                hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
                hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
                nope.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

                  Originally posted by Celestial1 View Post
                  Giving money to the very companies that are leading the competitive casualization of the gaming industry, leading to lack of innovation in gameplay, originality in story, and emphasis on GOOD GRAPHIX?

                  Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
                  hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
                  hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
                  nope.
                  You cant blame the companies that people turn down involving games like ARMA2 to play BF3 instead. Also compaing BF3 and PR does not make sense, the 2 are trying to achieve different things. One is an arcady shooter, the other a shooter for the thinking man. I like Arcade games, but I prefer playing them at the Arcade with friends.

                  What I find far worse is people who want to play an arcady game playing PR. If they learn to embrace the gameplaystyle of PR good, but I am sooo happy those who did not switched over to BF3.

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                  • #10
                    Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

                    Originally posted by Celestial1 View Post
                    Giving money to the very companies that are leading the competitive casualization of the gaming industry, leading to lack of innovation in gameplay, originality in story, and emphasis on GOOD GRAPHIX?

                    Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
                    hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
                    hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
                    nope.
                    Respectfully, I disagree with your analysis. Video games are becoming more and more mainstream, which has good, bad and unintentional consequences, one of which is that our ranks are being doubled, tripled and quadrupled year over year. Sure, this means that a lot of new and inexperienced gamers will be taking to the battlefield, and so will people that have no interest in playing a game like PR. Conversely, we will also be getting a lot more people that ARE interested in playing PR and other games like it, thus providing us a more robust and well rounded player base to play with. BF3 will be a great venue to recruit gamers that didn't know a game like PR exists!

                    Having played BF games from their inception, PRBF2, PRArmaII and now the BF3 beta, I can see where ALL of them build on each iteration and borrow from each other. (squads and team play, suppression effects, disabling vehicles, and yes, better graphics, are awesome!) The stories are especially becoming more and more involved, if you play the single player missions.

                    To summarize, BF3 is not an evil thing, nor is it leading to anything destructive to our gaming environment, but I think just the opposite. Games like BF3 will bring in more people because it's a good game (not necessarily a better PR game), and that will be a better thing for all of us unless there is a different agenda that requires fewer people in our community.

                    In any case, to each their own.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

                      Excellent points CR8Z though I do understand the 'they are ruining all the games' argument as well.

                      At the end of the day as games like MW make more money in a day then Avatar does in a week this is, on the whole, a good thing. Games companies make more money and some of those companies are brave enough and shall we say proud enough of their art to try something with a bit more 'quality'. Tripwire springs to mind with their latest release RO2. There is a company that is taking on board PC customer feedback. Another is Bohemia. Now next year Bohemia are releasing Arma 3. I have seen rumblings, the usual, "Why are they churning out another game when I haven't finished Arma 2" or something ridiculous. Look at it this way. They need a release to earn money, they don't make money off people playing mods or playing the games for years. However Bohemia do work closely with modders and support their community, they just need to earn some bread while they do it.

                      Games being popular isn't the problem. I will buy BF3, I played both Alpha and Beta. It isn't PR, it isn't trying to be. It is a whole lot of fun and will be just one of many games I am looking forward to playing.

                      PR is a refined niche experience, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. It may be to our tastes, that does not mean it is to everyone else's, it's certainly not perfect like any game, however it is damn good. I never understand why people get some partisan about games. At one point I played PR near every day, I have also played BF2 Vanilla, 2142, Arma, Arma 2, BC2, BF3 etc. Enjoyed them all. None of them replaced each other, they couldn't, they are so different. I am just glad to have the choice.

                      Some days I like to play PR:BF, some days I find it quite gamey by comparison to say PR:ARMA. Other days I want to run around and play BC2. It's like different food, I don't want to eat the same food every day, however much I like it. I think that's half the problem, some people need a more varied diet. As long as you eat from the menu at the great multi platform restaurant that is TG, you always eat well, enjoy your meal in good company and want to come back again.


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                      • #12
                        Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

                        Good point about the Last Six Years of PR vs Numerous other other titles that have been released. The only problem is that BF2:PR won't really you know, grow, after BF3 comes out. It is my sole Opinion that the PR Devs should have waited until at least February of Next year (2012) to release ArmA:PR, as it stands, the BF2 community already has got cut down by a margin and will continue to do so until late Feb-March of next year. With games like BF3, MW3, Skyrim, RO2, SW:ToR, and others.

                        Feels sad man.

                        EDIT: Also, they have to kill the 128 player server! takes too many people away from other servers on the Weekends or, they need to make it only up for 6-12 hours instead of the current 24 hours.
                        Last edited by ComedyInK; 10-12-2011, 09:29 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

                          Originally posted by Wicks View Post
                          Excellent points CR8Z though I do understand the 'they are ruining all the games' argument as well.

                          Games companies make more money and some of those companies are brave enough and shall we say proud enough of their art to try something with a bit more 'quality'. Tripwire springs to mind with their latest release RO2. There is a company that is taking on board PC customer feedback. Another is Bohemia. Now next year Bohemia are releasing Arma 3. I have seen rumblings, the usual, "Why are they churning out another game when I haven't finished Arma 2" or something ridiculous. Look at it this way. They need a release to earn money, they don't make money off people playing mods or playing the games for years. However Bohemia do work closely with modders and support their community, they just need to earn some bread while they do it.

                          Games being popular isn't the problem. I will buy BF3, I played both Alpha and Beta. It isn't PR, it isn't trying to be. It is a whole lot of fun and will be just one of many games I am looking forward to playing.

                          PR is a refined niche experience, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. It may be to our tastes, that does not mean it is to everyone else's, it's certainly not perfect like any game, however it is damn good. I never understand why people get some partisan about games. At one point I played PR near every day, I have also played BF2 Vanilla, 2142, Arma, Arma 2, BC2, BF3 etc. Enjoyed them all. None of them replaced each other, they couldn't, they are so different. I am just glad to have the choice.

                          Some days I like to play PR:BF, some days I find it quite gamey by comparison to say PR:ARMA. Other days I want to run around and play BC2. It's like different food, I don't want to eat the same food every day, however much I like it. I think that's half the problem, some people need a more varied diet. As long as you eat from the menu at the great multi platform restaurant that is TG, you always eat well, enjoy your meal in good company and want to come back again.
                          RO2 quite original in many aspects, and has great potential, but it is very buggy and poorly implemented at the moment. IMO it isn't even a beta at this point, even with the latest patches, it is still much more of a mid alpha build. Tons of bugs still need to be fixed, (just look at the tripwire forums) but again, take a look at the suggestions for the game (again, tripwire forums), the community already knows what would make it brilliantly spectacular, and if modding and coding were easy, it would already be one of the best games you could have bought in years. Apart from the bugs, just like an alpha, game needs many tweaks (like the literally thousands implemented on each and every release of PR [you guys are so awesome]).

                          I was in bed trying to go to sleep last night after just playing RO2 and I realized, sadly, PR is one of the only games in recent times that actually truly 'realizes its vision', in that everything in the game is coherent, cogent, universal, the game has a logic and it does not break it (like if Gandalf were to suddenly start raising undead soldiers to fight orcs like an RPG necromancer) and feels like a complete and totally realized universe. So natural almost, that it feels real, even if, depending on the game, it is absolutely bonkers when compared to reality, Unreal tournament 2004, the MechWarrior Series, or top quality JRPGs for example.

                          And, as for BF3, DICE has with almost no ambiguity said that they will not be releasing mod tools for BF3 ever

                          http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/battlefield-3/1195224p1.html

                          "It's a huge investment for us to do something like that, and also a bit complicated, and to some degree there's also [a concern] security-wise. It's a bit scary to take an investment like Battlefield 3 and just let people dig into that [frostbite 2] engine and do whatever they want."

                          Which makes me LOVE how the editor at gamespy starts out the article:

                          "For a game that's supposedly PC first, Battlefield 3 will be noticeably lacking even the most basic mod tools, a fact that makes fans who are still designing modifications for Battlefield 2 wonder if DICE knows what PC first means."

                          Plus for the fact that according to recent data at least 20% of PC gamers are still on XP, or an operating system that is not capable of DX11, and at least 40% of PC gamers do not have a video card that is capable of supporting DX11. Kinda killing your "PC first" market share there buddy. Of course, we all know that no AAA title is PC first anymore. None. The very last was Crysis, Starcraft II if you want to count it (but as we all know you can't port starcraft or any RTS to a console for crap)

                          The only PC exclusive, or PC priority games anymore ARE RTS games, MMOs or SOME indie games (most find their way to XBLA or PSN)

                          so..... yeah.

                          </rant>
                          [sigpic]

                          sigpic

                          "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
                          -Mark Twain

                          In game: |TG| Maxwell_Q_Klinger

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                          • #14
                            Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

                            Originally posted by CR8Z View Post
                            Respectfully, I disagree with your analysis. Video games are becoming more and more mainstream, which has good, bad and unintentional consequences...
                            Nay, you miss my point. Video games becoming mainstream has only so much to do with the trend of casualization. My point by no means acts as a way for me to say "I liked video games before they were cool."

                            "Casualization" is the process of taking a non-casual game and trying to make aspects of it appeal to casual gamers at the expense of other aspects of gameplay. Sure, making aspects of a game appeal to casual gamers can be a good thing when done properly as it may just make the game more accessible to newcomers, which is always something a company/developer should look towards. What I'm talking about, though, is when it is taken so far as to remove challenge from gameplay, and add things like trivial progression mechanics to the overall experience. If something seems to be too powerful, it is more likely for you to see players asking for a nerf of the weapon from the developers rather than trying to figure out why it's that way and finding ways to counter or protect themselves from it. Rather than a significant challenge that rewards you appropriately, instead we now have an excess of relatively trivial challenges (achievements, weapon unlock systems) that play on the psychology of players as an incentive to keep them coming back to the game day after day because they're just oh-so-close to that next unlock. Sometimes this unlock is not truly rewarding, perhaps even useless, and sometimes the unlocks don't even make sense (see: Red Orchestra 2. They implemented an unlock system, in which you start with a stick-mag and automatic-only fire for the PPSh-41 and later unlock drum mags. In reality, they were originally issued with drum mags and fire selectors, and as the war went on they began stripping features such as the fire selector and began issuing stick mags to speed up production. For a game that tries to accurately depict WWII, this is a pretty strange thing to do).

                            I'm also against the cookie-cutter trend. "But it's just a business how can you blame them"? How can someone blame their favorite artist for "selling out"? Sure, it's a business, and everyone wants to make money, that's a given, but cookie-cutter production isn't a money maker, it's more like a safe bet at best. CoD:WaW, CoD:MW2, CoD:BO, BF:BC2, BF3 are all examples of games that merely sustain the market. They hold minor variation between one another, one-upping eachother in small ways to try to muscle sales out of the other company. What really makes money is, for lack of a better term, disruptive innovation in gameplay. Modern Warfare (CoD4) was one such 'disruptive innovation'; it was one of the first shooters to be in a modern setting, on a console, with a weapon customization system, and competitive multiplayer. On their own those may not be original, but together it made for a shooter experience that wasn't quite met up until that point, especially considering popular games on the consoles at that time, it was a fresh and welcome change for console gamers. Now we're approaching MW3 and BF3. We've been through 2 Modern Warfare games by Activision/Infinity Ward, 2 games on the same engine from Activision/Treyarch, 2 Battlefield: Bad Company games from EA/DICE. The games have become stale even for some diehard franchise lovers, and gains from game to game in the series aren't exactly spectacular. Sure, it still sells well, but it's only doing a little bit better than it's predecessor. It's banking on a trend, not being innovative and setting the trend themselves.

                            As I see it, publishers and those who are behind the money don't really understand the games or the process behind it. Some don't seem to care about pushing forward, making something unique and breaking boundaries. I think the game industry needs to be pushed towards innovation-centric creation. Independent developers are forced to be stand out because they don't have a multimillion dollar publishing company to advertise their game. Certainly there's good reason for game developing companies to have that kind of service, but I just think there are ways that the industry and put emphasis on innovation in gameplay design and development, rather than pushing a game to follow market trends because it's known to be profitable.




                            tl;dr: It's not about games becoming mainstream, it's that current game publishing relies too much on following trends, not on innovation in the field, causing a stagnation of content. Something has to give, and I think that we should be looking at how independent game developers stand out and trying to replicate that creativity and innovation within the corporate game development environment.

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                            • #15
                              Re: BF3 vs. PR as we know it

                              I Agree with Celestial, there really is nothing to 'challange' the gamer anymore. BF2 you can talk with the Commander, and he can rely messages over to other squads, have a better team experience. BF3, err, good luck with that! Senseless killing and stupid bush wookies worried about their K/D ratio. (talking out Pub games of course!).


                              Futhermore: Lawl @ You for getting kicked last night during Basrah!

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