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  • Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

    Almost everyone in the PR community uses it, except for the uninformed and the ones that just don't care, its mandatory in almost every server so why should TG be any different? It promotes teamwork too. Having scattered communications via squad talk, chat and mumble is counter productive. Even if you don't have a mic its good to listen to it so you know whats going on.
    There are many that agree, and "its too confusing" isn't a excuse anymore with the release of PR teams modified PR Mumble 1.0.

    Posted in rage from the constant "Do you have mumble" kick sorting while making a squad.

  • #2
    Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

    The standpoint on TG not having mumble in the past is because there were and are people to which mumble cannot run on their systems due to technological errors of some sort (at least this is the standpoint I have gathered from my time here) and that it can crash their games or computers. In addition, at any given time a vast majority of the people playing on the server is using mumble anyways and I'd wager at least 7 or 8 out of the 9 possible SLs are on mumble communicating on a bad day. Why make mumble mandatory when it disallows some people who simply cannot run it not to play when the vast majority (and certainly all the regulars) are using it anyway? TG also strongly encourages mumble-usage on its server and on many occasions I've seen TG regulars assisting those who have not used it before set it up and introducing them to the wonderful world of mumble. Finally, there are some people who simply do not like mumble for one reason or another, perhaps they think too much aimless chatter goes on over it, etc. etc. That is indeed their choice and I don't think we should completely disallow them from the server, and indeed as more and more servers adopt the Mumble mandatory rule, from PR itself because of it? Don't get me wrong here, I do understand the advantages of having a mandatory mumble rule and that it does indeed encourage teamwork, however I don't believe that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages on this one.

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    • #3
      Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

      It should run on every single hardware setup just fine, it uses hardly any memory and dialup users can't even log into BF2.
      There are no disadvantages, its simply install or unpack then enter in your name and Its really really horrible when people take CAS or something else of value such as a APC without even being on mumble with the rest of us.

      Honestly every other popular server requires it, it sucks when all the lonewolfers that don't use it raid TG. If they just downright don't care for using it and communicating with their teammates, then I'm sure some other guy is waiting to replace his spot on the full server :)

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      • #4
        Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

        Also, I'd like to point out one cardinal rule that TG has always had:
        While TG does require communication and teamwork, TG will NEVER require the use of specific programs or hardware to participate on our servers or within our community. Ergo, while we strongly encourage the use of such programs and hardware to enhance the gameplay experience and give a better sense of what TG's community is truly capable of, there will be no requirement EVER for mumble, teamspeak, VOIP, etc.

        Before anone asks, the reasoning behind it is simple and not up for debate: TG welcomes all gamers that enjoy our playstyle. We have had and continue to have several members of the community who are hearing and/or speech impaired. We would never put rules in place to alienate any members of the community.

        That being said, we do have rules in place regarding teamwork, lonewolfing, etc. If you find that another player on your team is in breach of these rules and guidelines, please let the admin staff know and they'll be happy to assist.

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        • #5
          Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

          I'd like to chime in here, and say that "Requiring" a specific program be used for any game, is against TG rules as Ferris pointed out and it will never happen. If this did actually happen, I for one would never download mumble (I don't like it) and just wouldn't play PR:BF2. Not that I do now, but this kind of draconian enforcement is something we'll never do mate.
          -DR


          TG-30th Damion Rayne - Commanding Officer

          Content Development Writer | Developer Relations Liaison

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          • #6
            Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

            Mohsenzamani, thank you for your comments. I am the Game Officer for Project Reality at TG, I will provide you with an official response as soon as I get back to my pc.


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            • #7
              Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

              But you guys don't understand, nobody looks at the chat in the heat of battle and its very distracting seeing a mass of scrolling text for cross communication. Its best to have mumble and if you don't... how do you communicate with the majority of the team? Get with the times if you lack mumble, otherwise you're not playing with the majority of the team.

              That global rule is also violated several times, because I believe there are some events in the ArmA2 sector on TG that require TS3&ACRE.

              I think it needs to be amended because we can't have lonewolfers without mumble running around doing nothing for our team, they're like a completely separate faction if we can't use voice coms with them, and most of the people I know have BF2 VOIP disabled because its confusing having the two going at the same time.

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              • #8
                Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

                No, absolutely not. I will not support making anything mandatory in regards to communication. This is not up for discussion or debate, it wont change. Teamspeak is what we use, or in-game VOIP's if the game has it. But all of this is only "Suggested Strongly." I also fail to see why you've latched onto Mumble when other communication resources are available. We already have teamspeak, and there is no reason to add something else nor make it "mandatory."

                I do not support this and I hope the other GO's, Wicks in particular do not as well.


                TG-30th Damion Rayne - Commanding Officer

                Content Development Writer | Developer Relations Liaison

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                • #9
                  Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

                  Ok lets make something very clear.

                  How Project Reality is run at Tactical Gamer is determined by one person ultimately, me, the Game Officer. I make those decisions based on feedback from our playerbase in conjunction with input from my very experienced Admin Team. The opinions of other Administrators, whilst something I always respect, have no bearing. I don't require their support.

                  Mohsenzamani, as I say thank you for your input, I will provide you with a proper response as soon as I get home. You raise many points and I will do my best to address each of them appropriately.


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                  • #10
                    Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

                    a

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                    • #11
                      Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

                      Could we removed the "Announcement" tag, please? This isn't really an announcement.

                      The admin team has recently discussed this topic and Wickens will respond for us. That said, Ferris' response it pretty good.

                      DamionRayne, Mumble has become the go to 3rd party voip program for BF2:PR since it is has good quality audio which is also 3D, and many other great features. I believe there was discussion about using it for BF3 but it didn't link with players' in-game character well.

                      PS: It is also supported by the PR Devs which have integrated it into the newer PR builds.
                      Last edited by DaViking; 04-13-2012, 09:51 AM.
                      Viking

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                      • #12
                        Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

                        Let me first say, that I had no intention of telling of Wicks what to do or dictating to him how to do his job. For coming off that way, I apologize. But I seriously can't support someone making something mandatory for a video game...

                        But as Wicks said, my support is not needed and lack of it doesn't matter. So, I've given my input and my opinion and will let Wicks handle things. It's his show.


                        TG-30th Damion Rayne - Commanding Officer

                        Content Development Writer | Developer Relations Liaison

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

                          No problem, I posted an explanation of how things work for clarity. That's done. I am locking this thread now until I am ready to post my clarification as any other comment now is merely speculation and guesswork.

                          More to follow, thank you for your patience.


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

                            MohsenZamani, thank you for your interest in the server and your comments.

                            Okay, let's see if I can bring everyone up to speed on the current situation, TG's position on Mumble for PR:BF and the future.

                            Firstly policy. TG's policy as regards Third Party applications has previously been that Teamspeak is TG's official, Site Wide, means of communication. This standpoint predates Mumble and has been reinforced by the Community's use of TS as it's main means of 'out of game' communication, TS is how our community speaks to each other. However even then the use of TS is not mandatory in game, unless specificed in a special event. If you don't use TS you simply miss out on aspects of the community.

                            As regards PR:BF, that title has built in 'native VOIP'. The only requirement at TG as regards communications is that you are able to receive and follow orders. We do not mandate the use of a microphone. Now the actual policy is that you be able to 'hear' orders if I remember the precise wording. Since I set the policy for PR at TG I choose to use the term 'receive orders'. Why? Well I have had numerous occasions in the past to play with individuals who were hearing impaired. One particular individual would join my squads and his brother would furiously type out any orders I issued to his brother. It took a couple of seconds longer but it worked. What's the point of that little stroll down memory lane, well, the issue is inclusiveness and what is important to this community as a whole.

                            Why is that accomodation made, clearly to ensure that as many people as possible are able to play PR at TG. The only requirements for playing on the TG server are being teamwork focused, mature and respectful. Our entire set up is designed to foster that environment.

                            Mumble is simply a tool that facillitates teamwork, it is not teamwork itself. It is a means to an end. Being 'on Mumble' doesn't guarantee teamwork in the same way that throwing on a bikini doesn't make you a Hawaiian Tropic Model. It's what you do with it that counts, a phrase I know many of you have probably meekly offered in very different circumstances:row__596:.

                            Making Mumble Mandatory does not increase teamwork, that is supposition. The only thing a Mandatory Mumble Server guarantees is that eveyone is on Mumble. If I make carrying a chisel mandatory it does not mean there will be a sudden increase in the amount of people who are Master Carpenters.

                            Mumble can enhance teamwork and the vast majority of our playerbase already use it. As such those that don't for whatever reason, be it technical or personal taste, are in the minority.

                            I will address the 'headline' statements you make

                            Almost everyone in the PR community uses it, except for the uninformed and the ones that just don't care, its mandatory in almost every server so why should TG be any different?
                            TG is different.
                            Nobody in this Administrative Team cares what any other PR Community does with their server. We do not seek to meddle in their community's affairs nor presume to tell them how to run their servers. I am a firm believer in choice and getting your own house in order.

                            Honestly every other popular server requires it, it sucks when all the lonewolfers that don't use it raid TG.

                            I think it needs to be amended because we can't have lonewolfers without mumble running around doing nothing for our team,
                            We have rules that demand teamwork, we have rules that insist that the Chain of Command is followed. The notion that hordes of Lone Wolves descend from the untamed wild to raid TG's server is a fallacy to support a flawed argument. Listen, I know a secret. People who use Mumble Lone Wolf too. Some talk to much, some play music. Some who don't use Mumble do it as well. It's because they are people. Mumble doesn't fix them, nor does not having Mumble turn 'good players bad'. Being on Mumble doesn't prevent people 'Lone Wolfing', having a commander and rules do.

                            As regards Arma II and your mention of Acre, a valid point, I will now quote my colleague Dredge, the Game Officer for Arma II at TG.

                            ArmA uses a very specific modset for one of the servers. This mod is ACRE and is a REQUIRED mod for that server, and that is because the player base wants to use it. Because it is a required mod that needs Team Speak to function, TS itself now becomes a requirement by default. The Alpha server has no such requirements and will not have them. But as stated earlier, the mods our players have voted on, worked with and in some cases built and tested from the ground up, use TS so a fairly strict policy of use is enforced.

                            Returning to the issue of Third Party software and the TG server. Time has moved on as has PR and Mumble, it is vastly improved and I much prefer to use it. As such the potential for TG switching to a Mumble mandatory server has been discussed amongst the Admin Team, something that is not in contravention of policy because the nature of the Progam and Game has changed. Furthermore I have clarified this some time ago with Site Administration. However I am not going to take the server in that direction for the following reasons:-

                            a) Mandatory mumble would exclude many players that TG would like to offer a home to

                            b) Our Community and this Administration does not care how other servers are run

                            c) The assumption that Mandatory Mumble automatically means a higher standard of teamwork and gameplay is false as I have explained to some degree above. To add weight to that argument, TG has no such requirement presently yet it has provided me over the past 5 years with the following:-

                            1) The highest standard of gameplay and teamwork I have seen in PR:BF

                            2) The highest standard of conduct, maturity and respect on a server

                            3) Friendliest community

                            4) Most professionally run Admin Teams I have seen

                            5) Best forums I have read

                            6) The best place to play. So much so that I am happy to contribute a significant chunk of my spare time to help in its smooth running, as so many other people here do.

                            Making TG Mumble Mandatory brings more cons to the table than pros. It simply adds nothing to our community and excludes a minority for no valid reason. This is how this Admin Team makes it decisions, based on what is right for us and how we play the game, not based on what any other community does.

                            Thus Mumble remains a solid recommendation for players on the TG PR server but not mandatory. For anyone who is yet to use it I suggest you give it a try now as it is vastly different and hugely improved. Thank you for the interest, I hope I have clarified the current position and the reasoning behind it.

                            I'll open the thread back up now for comment and discussion, however the position is set at this point in time, that's the policy, it's been well thought out and reflects the wider aims of the Tactical Gamer community. Thank you for your comments.
                            Last edited by Wicks; 04-14-2012, 05:36 AM. Reason: typos


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                            • #15
                              Re: Make mumble mandatory, for teamwork.

                              Adding my 2 cents in, but the idea of mumble was, a little frightening for me, but I went onto TG, and someone introduced it to me (I have long forgotten their name..) (back in .5 PR mumble) and they showed how it helped teamwork, was cool, because I was relatively new to PR, and didn't like "new" things. So, if mumble was mandatory, you could be scaring off a new player. (In my mind :P)

                              |TG-Irr|Sockman

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