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  • This map needs to go.

    Jabal Al Burj. (32p) The map that starts the US in the far south with the Mec holding a dam to the NW.

    This map is like playing a whole round of Dalian AFTER the US has been forced off the mainland. Add in the fact that it has been in AAS mode the last 5 times Ive played it giving the US nowhere to attack but one flag is very "Untactical"

    I could suggest several things that would make this map playable as its design is really only flawed in one way: transportation.

    If we could add a few more Hummers or maybe (gasp) even a blackhawk, this map wouldn't be infuriating every time a person is stuck on the US side in it.

    Anything to avoid that 4 minute long walk only to be killed by a sniper since there is no cover to speak of. Or, worse, simply waiting the 10 minutes it takes to get a new hummer only to have that blown up for the same reason.

    The US has a chance to gain one of the city flags at the beginning but the situation is VERY tenuous. If the US loses that flag the entire map is over, (cept the crying) There is no chance of retaking the flag.

    Bah, I'm frustrated and I'm rambling.........is there anyone out there who has played this map on the US side and has a comment?

  • #2
    Re: This map needs to go.

    Yeah freekyE,
    I commented on this map on the server configuration feedback thread.
    I played on it when it was conquest and that was horrible too (though partly because of the low pop). Your point about the travel times is right on. I can see why sometimes well separated flags promotes good play, but this is just sick.
    There's no need for an epic journey Lawrence of Arabia style for the US, I like your black hawk suggestion. Or perhaps let USMC start at the city flag. I haven't played this in ass-mode (whoops) so I can't comment further.
    -nick 'Ale06'

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    • #3
      Re: This map needs to go.

      personally I sort of like that map. The designer has a lot of work to do though. Some spawns are placed very poorly (e.g.) the dam.

      On the whole vehicle spawn times in PR are a problem to me. You can not wait for a jet to respawn (or a jeep) if you're in a jet squad. The game will be over before you get it.


      I'd like to, say play tanker the whole round, but I can't because the tank spawns twice a game.

      I do see the good points about this, but some vehicles should spawn sooner. And definitely on this map !

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      • #4
        Re: This map needs to go.

        Gentlemen, I have to disagree.

        I have played this map on USMC and MEC sides. Both were quite enjoyable.

        It is all about the play style. If transport vehicles are used with caution (instead of driving right into the enemy base, find a safe deployment zone) you will not lose your squad and vehicle.

        After deployment, SL must stay back and safe. Putting SL into combat is a big risk and if you want to take it, it is your choice.

        There are a lot of little details -like long vehicle spawn times and big/open maps- which make PR an excellent mod, a totally different BF2 game. These slow down the pace of the game and give time to think and plan. Without them, there is no incentive to play tactical or cautious. The mentality becomes "Ehh, it doesnt matter if we lose the transport, another one will spawn in 1 min." This is one of the worst things that can happen to a realism mod and I hope PR developers continue to put more pressure on players to play the game in a planned, tactical and cautious way.

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        • #5
          Re: This map needs to go.

          Originally posted by John CANavar View Post
          Gentlemen, I have to disagree.

          I have played this map on USMC and MEC sides. Both were quite enjoyable.

          It is all about the play style. If transport vehicles are used with caution (instead of driving right into the enemy base, find a safe deployment zone) you will not lose your squad and vehicle.

          After deployment, SL must stay back and safe. Putting SL into combat is a big risk and if you want to take it, it is your choice.
          The big problem with this is that it does not always go this way, even on the TG server. Right now I don't think we have that high of a TG population on the server (most of the games I have played, 80% of the people are non-TGers).

          Originally posted by John CANavar View Post
          There are a lot of little details -like long vehicle spawn times and big/open maps- which make PR an excellent mod, a totally different BF2 game. These slow down the pace of the game and give time to think and plan. Without them, there is no incentive to play tactical or cautious. The mentality becomes "Ehh, it doesnt matter if we lose the transport, another one will spawn in 1 min." This is one of the worst things that can happen to a realism mod and I hope PR developers continue to put more pressure on players to play the game in a planned, tactical and cautious way.
          The thing is, people don't play this way. We like to think that the realism mod will bring players more towards this style of play but the fact is it doesn't. I think no matter what (With the exception of the Tacmod and it's perfect fit here) on a public server you will always have the gung ho people that don't play like it is real life and your expections are way too high if you think they will.

          Someone will always grab that Humvee and charge right in and not have the patience or experience or want to take it slow and cautious. Then the others will have to walk and with no cover, what do you expect? A cautious SL can't survive that. Just my opinion.

          I have not played the map without AAS on (I hate AAS so much!) but when I played with it on, it was a really long way. As long as the US does not get pushed back I don't think they struggle too much. If the do, they are SOL.

          It is like the Oasis map too (don't remeber the name). We held off the US at the oasis flag for a good 30 minutes. They had no flag with the exception of the UCB. We took their Humvees when they assaulted the flag and they had to march right at our flag since AAS was on. It took a half an hour before I think we just pulled back and let them have it. We didn't have a single death on our team for like 15 minutes. The US just got slaughtered because they had to spend a minute walking towards our flag.

          I think the map just needs time.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: This map needs to go.

            Originally posted by Gahlas View Post
            Someone will always grab that Humvee and charge right in and not have the patience or experience or want to take it slow and cautious.
            Happened at least twice last night: first time, the Humvee charged towards the flag. RPG, Boom, gone. Second time, we were moving on foot and a Humvee attempted to ram us. RPG, Boom again. Yes, it will take some time, but like we saw with POE2, I think things will settle down. IMO, common sense will eventually prevail.

            DB

            «That looks like a really nice house except for that horrible bathroom.» Donrhos

            | |





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            • #7
              Re: This map needs to go.

              Originally posted by Dick Blonov View Post
              Happened at least twice last night: first time, the Humvee charged towards the flag. RPG, Boom, gone. Second time, we were moving on foot and a Humvee attempted to ram us. RPG, Boom again. Yes, it will take some time, but like we saw with POE2, I think things will settle down. IMO, common sense will eventually prevail.

              DB
              common, we all know common sense is not used in reality on a consistent bases.


              Why start now with a video game?
              (PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
              (CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
              (LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander

              Squad Member pledge to their SL:
              Squad Leader pledge to their team:
              Commander pledge to their SL:

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              • #8
                Re: This map needs to go.

                Thanks for the comments guys!

                Big AL, There is no tank spawn on the 32 player version of this map...a tank would help tremendously when the US is eventually pushed back.

                John, Like others said the humvees DO get wasted but even if youre cautious and try to take a back route you still get fragged because when you get pushed back the mec are already pushing on your only base. Sending vodniks to close the only two ways into town.

                I guess the real problem is AAS, I kinda hate it too. There is nothing tactical about the enemy knowing exactly where youre going to strike. Thats why we took out scan and uav, right?

                I know AAS eliminates Flag hopping, but it also eliminates half the tactics weve come to develop and use over the year weve been playing this game.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: This map needs to go.

                  AAS is a temporary thing here. We all hate it, but until the rest of the PRM community comes up to 1.41, we'll probably be unable to field large games, thus the need for AAS.

                  3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: This map needs to go.

                    I couldn't agree more, Freeky. And I play MEC fairly often on this too. The vehicles are ditched on the dam, or left on the road, and most of the game is running and hiding and getting picked off.

                    No one deserves a huge run a few minutes (or seconds) after just getting done with a huge run.

                    Blackhawk is a good idea, boats are another, but it still can't fix the awkward layout and huge distances involved.

                    It's too bad, since the flag locations themselves, esp. the Dam, are a fun challenge, but overall poor design and vulnerability to sniping makes this not worth the time it takes to play, IMO.

                    If we could shrink the whole thing together so that flags were about as distant from eachother as they are on Karkand, I think this would be on par with the other maps.
                    sigpic

                    Living proof that "Teamplay ensmartens the idiotest of us!"

                    "

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                    • #11
                      Re: This map needs to go.

                      Hello TG community.

                      Ive been playing PR since first release. Ive been playing BF series since 1942 demo first came out. Im new to TG, Ive played your old mod and on some of your servers. I enjoyed your 'force to squads' option and Id like to see that introduced into PR.

                      Now on to the topic: Jabal.

                      This is my all-time favorite map so to see it being slanged here is really tough to me and was the reason I registered.

                      This map to me is what PR is all about. Vehicles are not to be used like toys in this map!!!! Vehicles are absolutely precious, they are your tools, your not to use them lightly. Before you disembark from your base camp, you better know where the hell your going, and you better have a plan (Like in reality).

                      This map is the ultimate tacticians map. There are so many options avaliable. Its perfect for coordinating 2 or more squads to make a succesful mission.

                      USMC unbalance: absolutely not true. The USMC has a huge advantage in being air mobile, while the MEC have an advantage of superior position. as USMC you need to know when to move and when to hold a position, and its key to winning the battle. Your Air calvalry needs to be precise and deadly, your pilots need to havea clear plan and they cannot hover around like flies for the swatting. Some of my best moments in BF series have been on this map as the USMC, coordinating multiple squads converging on positions with combined APC/infantry tactics to overwhelm and destroy an enemy.

                      MEC on the other hand are absolutely awesome to play. The opportunities for ambushing on this map surpass all other BF2 maps ive seen. The fact that there are long roads, and only so many paths to get off the beaches, makes the opportunity for ambushing irresistible. Setting up C4 on empty vehicles and waiting for an enemy convoy to drive by to inspect the vehicle is too much fun. With a well disciplined squad you can ambush forces much larger than you and suffer very few casualties.

                      I could go on and on about this maps tactical awesomeness, but the best thing to do would be for you to see for yourself. So hop on gloryhoundz west or south next time this map is in rotation and see for yourselves!!!

                      If you see me in there, then be sure to say hello and hop in my squad if you can!!! Im sure it will be a blast!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: This map needs to go.

                        Welcome fuzzhead.
                        (PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
                        (CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
                        (LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander

                        Squad Member pledge to their SL:
                        Squad Leader pledge to their team:
                        Commander pledge to their SL:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: This map needs to go.

                          Welcome to TG fuzzhead!

                          Your comments ring true, Except that i am reffering to the 32 player version of this map only. The 32 player version give the US three (i think) humvees and thats IT. You get no air cav, you get no armor, you get three humvees.

                          And while we have a plan, the MEC has one too. This map would be a challenge in a scrim of all TGers vs a whole MEC team of pubtards.

                          Anyway the whole point is moot because we switched to conquest mode (thank you admins!)

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                          • #14
                            Re: This map needs to go.

                            Look what I found.:)


                            You're resident FireFighter/EMT TonkaTruck <3

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                            • #15
                              Re: This map needs to go.

                              You were really bored weren't you.




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