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  • Base Raping!!!

    I figured this would be the best way to get this off my chest and hear other peoples opinions on this matter. Words cannot fully express how pissed I am. Tonight Monday, Feb 26, 2007, while on the MEC teamplaying Operation Greasy Mullet, I saw something I thought I would NEVER SEE on a Tactical Gamer server. Here is the story...

    I quickly gathered my squad right after we spawn in and made our way to the mountains and attack and defend Military Installation. After HEAVY armor made our lives crappy, we then discovered that they have taken Refinery. We then backtracked and made our way there half way through I noticed that we have NO AIR ASSETS at all. I wondered where they were all at and I noticed something in my minimap. Red enemy jets straffing ALL the air assets at transport hub. This is where my blood started to simmer. 10 minutes pass, and we had to spawn at Transport hub. Then the next thing I am dead by several A-10's. This happened 3 times each time was right when I spawned. Each time the USMC had to take oilfields before they moved into the MEC base.

    Intrigued yet?....Oh it gets better!

    What REALLY erks me was the fact that they constantly hit our heli's and jets from start to finish. Granted, it was not a uncap base...but they had to capture several other bases to even touch Transport Hub. Remember before when I told you that my blood was simmering...now it is boiling over. I was so pissed off that people were doing this, that I said to myself..."Self, I could just be doing this on a pubby server". Another thing that made me mad was the fact that there were alot of "TG" members on the opposing team. I dont know if they were condoning this or not, but they should have stepped up and said something.

    I also noticed this on several other maps where I would be killed at the spawn whereas the person who killed me still have to take several other flags before they even touch this one. What are your guy's opinion on this matter?

    <Angry Mode> Dirtboy
    "Dirtboy is super awesome, and chicks dig him too!"- Everyone




  • #2
    Re: Base Raping!!!

    I was with dirtboy and it got bad... real bad. I totally agree on what he is saying.

    The hungry, ignorant man immediately grasps that he is handed a fish, but is bewildered when handed a net. The man who shivers in the cold thinks happily of the man who invites him to sit by his fire, and somewhat poorly of the man who loans him an axe, flint and steel.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Base Raping!!!

      I don't understand the purpose of this post.. Were rules being broken? Did you contact an admin on TS? Did you just come here to whine?

      3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Base Raping!!!

        First off this isn't the way to handle this situation.

        First step is contact an admin on TS or in game chat. If an admin isn't available then.....

        Second thing you should have gotten the names of the offenders

        Third you need to PM those names to an admin and explain the infractions within that PM.

        Public threads don't help the situation don't be surprised if this gets locked by a moderator. Good luck
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Base Raping!!!

          Well guys, I simply believe that Dirt made this post to hear other people's opnion on this matter, so I am going to give mine:

          I DO think that baseraping enemy air assets is cheap. I say that because in PR, planes take 5 to 10 minutes to spawn, not the regular 1, 2 minutes like Vanilla. Also, I do think is l33t tactics, and I will never do it on TG soil. On Greasy Mullet, it is pretty common to see enemy heavy tanks and AA vehicles sitting at the runway.

          Anyways, this is just my opnion. Afterall, "maturity and teamplay are REQUIRED on this server", as the message on the load screen says. And I don't think killing air assets on ground is a mature thing to do.
          |TG-69th|Kevlar



          "Oh I know I don't think I see what I see what I'm thinking."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Base Raping!!!

            Originally posted by Drizzid View Post
            First off this isn't the way to handle this situation.

            First step is contact an admin on TS or in game chat. If an admin isn't available then.....

            Second thing you should have gotten the names of the offenders

            Third you need to PM those names to an admin and explain the infractions within that PM.

            Public threads don't help the situation don't be surprised if this gets locked by a moderator. Good luck

            First step: The only reason why I didnt contact an admin was because I was told that this was allowed by a pretty reputable TG member <name withheld>

            Second and Third Step: I was told that this was this was being discussed in the forums...I searched and it was not.

            The sole reason why I made this thread was to vent and hear other peoples opinions on this matter. So I really dont see the reason in Closing this thread.
            "Dirtboy is super awesome, and chicks dig him too!"- Everyone



            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Base Raping!!!

              If no rules are being broken, the best thing to do if you do not like this is to vote with your escape button.

              When this kind of stuff happens, leave the server. If you and a lot of others leave, then hopefully players may not do this or a rule will be in place because of this.

              I have never had this happen (not played that much). But seeing how long these maps can take, if I were annoyed, I would tell my SL or CO the battle is lost, I'll catch you guys on the next round. Then I would do something constructive in RL until the next round, and then rejoin the server.
              (PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
              (CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
              (LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander

              Squad Member pledge to their SL:
              Squad Leader pledge to their team:
              Commander pledge to their SL:

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Base Raping!!!

                Originally posted by Rick_the_new_guy View Post
                I would do something constructive in RL
                What the hell is that?

                Yeah luckily the only time that's happened to me, gracious John_C was playing and dealt with the situation before it got out of control.
                The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
                I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
                Feel free to quote me. ~

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Base Raping!!!

                  Gentlemen,

                  We really need to bring this subject to a conclusion. Together...

                  There are right way(s) and wrong ways of doing things. Lets try find the right one(s). By being constructive.

                  As admins, it is our responsibility to remind, again and again, the difference between a) Server rules b) SOPs c) Gentlemen's conduct/agreement

                  There may be things like this one which also bothers us very much during the gameplay but since there are no rules against them, we dont abuse our power by kicking/banning those who camp a flag which cannot be captured at that moment.

                  Is there a strong demand to make a new TG rule on this issue? Before proposing it, please start a discussion. Pros and cons of such a rule. Dont forget to consider the situation from a "crippling enemy's logistic support" of view. Also remember that it is always better to keep the rules minimum for a public server. For obvious reasons (can be discussed here as well).

                  Please continue discussion. Problem is identified already so lets hear solution suggestions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Base Raping!!!

                    I was considering making this thread the other night, as I saw the same stuff. Something definitely needs to be done about this, but it's hard to know what. It's definitely spawncamping, since they take advantage of the spawn disorientation and just kill whatever comes in. But the problem is PRM doesn't have kill messages, so it's impossible to know who's doing it to you. Some people are suggesting reporting it to a TS admin and getting the name of the offenders - you can't do that in PRM. I'm not sure if rules are being broken, but that's all the more reason to discuss it in the forums - this is one of those times when it might be necessary for new rules to be added. Every single time I play Greasy Mullet the MEC airfield gets camped relentlessly. Sure, maybe it's not explicitly against the rules, but it's hardly TG play, and it's worse than any vanilla pub servers ever were. As far as what to do about it, the easiest solution would be to create a rule against going into the back-most flag, treating it as if it were a UCB up until it becomes capturable. This will restrict tactics a bit, but I think it's worth it in the face of the greater problem.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Base Raping!!!

                      Another thing with PRM is that a lot of the time the finally base is actually capturable so there is a very fine line between when you can attack that last strong hold and when it is base camping.

                      The hungry, ignorant man immediately grasps that he is handed a fish, but is bewildered when handed a net. The man who shivers in the cold thinks happily of the man who invites him to sit by his fire, and somewhat poorly of the man who loans him an axe, flint and steel.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Base Raping!!!

                        can kill (all) messages be seen in if you open the console? (~ key by default)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Base Raping!!!

                          A humble start. By mainly playing the Devil's advocate (that Bob guy)...

                          Strategy: Attacking an enemy flag which is not listed in HQ orders (AAS mode)

                          Bob says "It is ok" because:

                          - Objective is to prevent enemy assets/forces to provide backup to frontline.

                          - Instead of complaining, enemy must allocate a force to eliminate "camping" squad.

                          - This is war and this strategy makes perfect sense and frequently used in real-world military.

                          ====

                          George says :It is not ok" because:

                          - Airforce (especially bombers) are not balanced in the mod; a) they can hardly be shot down by AA measures. b) they can very frequently bomb a base due to very fast re-arming system.

                          - It is abused by lonewolves and those who dont want to participate teamwork.

                          ===

                          Lets hear more "It is ok" and "Nope, it is not ok" points.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Base Raping!!!

                            Originally posted by John CANavar View Post
                            Gentlemen,

                            We really need to bring this subject to a conclusion. Together...

                            There are right way(s) and wrong ways of doing things. Lets try find the right one(s). By being constructive.

                            As admins, it is our responsibility to remind, again and again, the difference between a) Server rules b) SOPs c) Gentlemen's conduct/agreement

                            There may be things like this one which also bothers us very much during the gameplay but since there are no rules against them, we dont abuse our power by kicking/banning those who camp a flag which cannot be captured at that moment.

                            Is there a strong demand to make a new TG rule on this issue? Before proposing it, please start a discussion. Pros and cons of such a rule. Dont forget to consider the situation from a "crippling enemy's logistic support" of view. Also remember that it is always better to keep the rules minimum for a public server. For obvious reasons (can be discussed here as well).

                            Please continue discussion. Problem is identified already so lets hear solution suggestions.
                            Well said John:)

                            I got a few suggestions if you dont mind.

                            1) Even though it is a Capable Air Base, there is no reason that it should be camped(unless you are ready to attack it due to friendlies capping others)

                            2) Even though it is a smart manuver to cripple the enemys assets...we should only allow spec-ops to do so. (just like in some vanilla servers). But when needed. It really doesnt help the team out in the long run when you have alot of people hitting the Airfield when there are plenty of flags needed capped or defended

                            3) The opposing Air assests shouldnt be attacking the OpFors Airstrip. (unless it is being capped).
                            a) This is what was annoying me the most. It takes 5 min for a transport chopper to spawn and right when it does it gets hit from the enemy jets and choppers.

                            Just like John C. said, we just need to be gentlemenly about things.
                            "Dirtboy is super awesome, and chicks dig him too!"- Everyone



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Base Raping!!!

                              Personally i dont like it. We've never allowed jets to be destroyed on take off before at a UCB and i dont see why we should start now. Course that is assuming you consider the back base a UCB until its possible to capture

                              Generally in greasy mullet, the squads camping the airfield will never actually be able to capture that flag. Since the capture of flags is the objective, that should be priority. I would only like to see squads at flags they cant capture if and only if there is a high probability that the flag they are currently at will be captureable in a short amount of time.

                              I do see the point that taking out enemy armor assets and air assets at the main base could be an "objective". It hasnt been allowed before, but im open to that possibility. However, you dont need an army to do a special forces job. You will often see several pieces of armor, jets strafing, etc. When you have that large a force it starts spilling over from asset destruction into spawn camping.

                              I edited my first paragraph.
                              Last edited by Santa; 02-27-2007, 01:49 AM. Reason: First paragraph edited for clarification. Thanks lucky.

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