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  • Taking the Next Step with PR

    Ok after trying to CO for the US on Operation Phoenix last night, it's become brutally clear what single thing needs to be done to significantly increase the quality of games on the PR server. What I propose below is a form of sign-up/commitment from TG regulars to significantly improve the games we host on our server.

    Issue: Games on assault maps (Muttrah, Operation Phoenix, Hills of Hyongang, Sunset City, Jabal, Gulf of Oman) are often stalemates with the Assaulting (US/British) team backed up to their main base.

    We can address this issue a few ways:
    1. Make sure to have a US/British CO every time these maps come up
    2. If the teams are slightly skewed toward a TG-heavy OPFOR side, make sure TG regulars shift over to the Assaulting side for those maps
    3. TG regulars make sure to report non-cooperative SLs to admins


    Since we have growing community support for the mod, these shouldn't be that hard to enact. Having a capable Assaulting CO is absolutely critical to "evening the field" on these maps, as they're very imbalanced by design to favor the defenders.

    Let's make a commitment to make sure that someone is in the CO chair for the US/British every time those Assault maps come up in rotation.
    Beatnik

  • #2
    Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

    I'll step up and try to command Muttrah in the next week or two. I've been working on a plan in my head on how to use transports from the carrier to create strike teams on the USMC side. Requires a dedicated and ORGANIZED transport team ferrying lots of troops at one time. I'll polish up the plan and give it a whirl soon.
    sigpic
    |TG-1st|Grunt
    ARMA Admin (retired)
    Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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    • #3
      Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

      very good suggestion beatnik, i agree, the assualters are at a disadvantage and need guidance from a CO, otherwise it will always end poorly for them...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

        To be honest you TG guys play Hills wrong! The first line of three flags cannot be captured back by chinese. So instead of dividing your forces up to have lets say 2 squads attack each flag, you need to have 4 sqauds attacking two of the flags. Also I advise radio dugout to be the first flag to capture, if you make your way up the side of the hill towards the out of bounds area you can place rally points quite close, then smoke the hill and you only have to make a 15 meter rush to the flag. Also once you capture this flag, it's easy to waltz down and take out one of the arty cannons. And it's also an easy position to move right into central flag.

        Although I DO agree a commander is strongly needed in hills because you NEED arty to soften up the dug in defense before attacks and used as a surpressing agent when squads advance.


        And with how Jabal is now on other servers I alllways see the MEC getting pushed back, not the US which I find odd, I haven't played the map on TG yet. All you need to do is send full squads to east, west, and dam via heli, and have a squad bring the APC to west or dam. Whatever squad captured EAst grabs the APC there and brings it up to bridge. Once you have dam the only thing oyu need to defend is dam, and once you make a push to bridge you only need to defend bridge. And once you have those two. It's pretty easy to send a little bird north of the city and have squads set up rally points.


        Sunset city I HATE, it's too easy for the chinese, and I hate the scout vehicles, because people just hop in them and run people over. (We are definatly taking a look at this map in .6).

        Muttrah I haven't played since .4. It's really weird, with all the testing and playing I do, I somehow manage to not be on a server when Muttrah is played.

        Gulf of Oman is although hard not too difficult to even things up. Another map where you have to remember and take complete advantage of a forward line of non-cappable flags for the MEC. Make an armour column to the far west or east with your APCs and move them all into position to assualt the first flag you come across, infantry move in, destroy the rally point cap. Whatever is left of the armour column go behind train tracks and move to the opposite flag, the reason for this is it totally disorients the enemy, they THINK you will just go in a row and set up a defense, then all of the sudden you are behind of them capping a flag! Also this map is brilliant to have a sabatoge squad for! Take the transport little bird fly far out with a squad that consists of an Officer, eng or spec ops, medic, heavy AT, AA rifleman, and have the last guy wait to spawn in (he will go as a rifleman). Fly the squad covertly as best as you can as close to the village outpost. Have the squad sneak in and destroy their AA cannon and rally point. Hide out, wait, if you see an enemy APC take it out if you see an enemy heli have your AA guy on him. Now move to construction site, samething, take out the rally point. Move out to hotel and take out hte rally point and AA gun. Also have your eng drop land mines on main roads on your jouney. Once all back flags have been taken care of set up a rally point in the park behind the beach flags. Squad leader take out your SOFLAM find the flag with the least amount of opposition and go there and start taking out their rally points and AA guns on the front lines. Softening up the MEC this way makes ALL the difference.

        I hope these strategies help out the US forces a bit!

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        • #5
          Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

          How hard should we be on squads? I sometimes just join squads to see if they talk or have an SL that give orders, if they do not give orders and are all spread out I just join another squad or create my own.

          Should we be more hard and kick SLs that dont give orders?
          |TG-Irr| Red

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          • #6
            Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

            Should COs and SLs be required to have voip?
            .



            [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
            "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
            - Wulfyn

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            • #7
              Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

              Originally posted by SloppyJoe View Post
              Should COs and SLs be required to have voip?
              We don't force SLs to have VOIP, but they definitely have to follow orders. I've seen good SLs without VOIP, and would prefer that all SLs/COs have it, but I don't think that VOIP is a rule here, as it doesn't preclude teamwork and running a strong squad. And I'd certainly rather have a silent CO/SL that issues waypoints and tries to organize the team than none at all.

              Originally posted by RedBane
              Should we be more hard and kick SLs that dont give orders?
              Again this isn't something we have as a rule, and they absolutely must follow assigned orders. This might be a couple/few steps down the road, but at this point I think we should do exactly what you've been doing: join random squads and encourage teamplay and ask for orders. I've been doing this the past week or so and it's really something to join a quiet squad, start talking a bit, and find that there are 3-5 other good squad players with voip who actually want to work together!

              @Riki: Great points on the map specific strategies. However our principal hurdle at this point is getting people to step into the CO chair, particularly with USMC/Britan assaulting. Once we get more COs stepping up (and as I understand it, it will be even more mission critical in .6), those strategies are definitely steps in the right direction.
              Beatnik

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              • #8
                Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

                Originally posted by Grunt 70 View Post
                I'll step up and try to command Muttrah in the next week or two. I've been working on a plan in my head on how to use transports from the carrier to create strike teams on the USMC side. Requires a dedicated and ORGANIZED transport team ferrying lots of troops at one time. I'll polish up the plan and give it a whirl soon.
                We'll try and field a full squad from the 160th. We have helo operations planned out pretty well (we think!), and we'll work with you to make the ground and air parts of the mission fit together.

                Originally posted by Beatnik
                We don't force SLs to have VOIP, but they definitely have to follow orders. I've seen good SLs without VOIP, and would prefer that all SLs/COs have it, but I don't think that VOIP is a rule here, as it doesn't preclude teamwork and running a strong squad.
                I don't dispute that we have good SL's who lack a mic, but I think we should make it a rule (for PR at least). I will always stand down as SL if my mic dies (PR does weird things to it sometimes). Recently, my squad had all the transport helos, and I was handling ATC for the CO. I had a bird on the deck fully loaded for nearly 5 minutes, because the SL onboard didn't have a mic, and it was hell getting a DZ request from them as a result.

                Originally posted by Beatnik
                our principal hurdle at this point is getting people to step into the CO chair, particularly with USMC/Britan assaulting.
                I'm reluctant to step up and CO of late, only because I see (and fill) the need for solid SL's. Perhaps if less confident players had a crack at leading a squad, the more confident players would feel happier about CO'ing. Screwing up is not the worst thing you can do as SL. We all get maps where nothing we try seems to work out. The biggest sin an SL can commit, is failing to try.
                BFCL TF2 league admin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

                  The next step would be to make a CO/ Squad leader teampeak channel for both sides. Just like the War room channel in the scrims.

                  Each side would have this channel.

                  ___

                  Pro, would allow other squads to work together to accomplish tasks. What AASv2 is all about IMO.

                  Con, players would get in this squad even though they are not a squad leader.

                  Con, could sabotogue the chain of command. Best way to allivate this would be to teel the CO that x and y squad can work together because the squad leaders are in teampseak.

                  Con, humans who are playing for keeps will try to listen in on the channel.
                  This should be meet with sever punishment.

                  ___

                  Closing: If this set-up works we can create more and more specific channels.
                  Tank/Assault/Defense/Air/Recon, Special Forces.

                  Note: Do not creat a channel for squad members to join, will be too chaotic because sure as shotting players will not know how to be effective with this.
                  (PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
                  (CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
                  (LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander

                  Squad Member pledge to their SL:
                  Squad Leader pledge to their team:
                  Commander pledge to their SL:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

                    The problem with Muttrah is the lack of coordination in the air. The entire group of helos needs to fly together. THe AA guns are good against 1 or 2, but not all. Also fly high and fast and dive to a landing zone well away from the capturable flags. The gunship Little Bird needs to lead the way and ensure an AT free LZ. Too often you see singles helo's flying to the same spots, near the Hotel or Docks. Why? Once you can get Rally Points up the insertions are not as significant and the Helo's can be a distraction.
                    |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                    XBL GT: Khan58

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

                      Guys....were missing something here that occurred to me last night...

                      Lots of people are putting alot of effort into the Muttrah map...as much effort as a scrim...Man how I wish we could just run it as a conquest map.

                      We had some good coordination last night with helo's( granted not the 160th) on muttrah...landed multple squads on the map in the same places I envisioned and we just got tore to pieces over and over again...Our squad disbanded because of the frustration...We had a commander who was really trying to coordinate well.

                      Still willing to try but I think of the effort needed to coordinate success on this map on a consistent basis is a daunting challenge. How do you make that happen on, say, a wednesday night with who knows who on the server trying. And again 2 hours later, and again 2 hours later, etc etc. The map is not balanced right and only the best efforts from a lot of poeple will overcome the unbalance.

                      Two things I heard last night--1...Lots of people said if they could put rally points in the city itself that might help, but the closeness of the flags prevents it. 2. Over and over I heard, "geesh, I loved this map when it was conquest.

                      Goodness I sound gloomy

                      @ root...lets set a time and date...I'm willing to meet up in TS and go over the plan and figure out our roles. etc,
                      sigpic
                      |TG-1st|Grunt
                      ARMA Admin (retired)
                      Pathfinder-Spartan 5

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

                        As posted by Tempus in the Realizing the potintial of PR, we would need to be consistant with the Conquest.

                        I am fixin to start a thread on brainstorming the Conquest night or nights.

                        I am going outside to Hacky Sack now, feel feel to PM if you feel this this is not warrented.

                        IMO, there are a good 10 maps that could be played in Conquest. M. City ranked number 1.

                        As before in .4, I am sure TG will do well with this.
                        (PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
                        (CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
                        (LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander

                        Squad Member pledge to their SL:
                        Squad Leader pledge to their team:
                        Commander pledge to their SL:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

                          It isn't possible to talk to just one squad, sure it isn't?

                          The one thing that puts me off COing is the fact that so much time is spent muting every squad but one, repeating, ad infinitum. Half of the work is in making sure you're talking to the right people.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

                            Originally posted by mingmong View Post
                            It isn't possible to talk to just one squad, sure it isn't?

                            The one thing that puts me off COing is the fact that so much time is spent muting every squad but one, repeating, ad infinitum. Half of the work is in making sure you're talking to the right people.
                            Just press "B" to talk to the highlighted squad... (or if you select multiple squads [shift-click], "B" will talk to the multiple squads you've selected)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Taking the Next Step with PR

                              See now, I'd heard that before. Except when you press it, the thing doesn't light up on the squad bar, so I assumed it didn't do anything.

                              God, all this time and I've been muting like a madman _

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