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  • Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

    My first reaction to the Muttrah flag capping fix was that it must be good, since it was fixed. Up until last night I hadn't actually played on Muttrah since .509 came out, and this was my experience...

    The map is now horrible to play. My advice to anyone placing it in server rotation: don't.

    Reasons:
    1: While the USMC used to have to take just the Docks in order to advance into the city, they now have to take two seperate flags which are on opposite sides of the city, and they must hold them both in order to advance.
    2: USMC are unable to place Rally Points that are even remotely close to the city. They must place them in the middle of the desert to the East of Hotel, SouthEast of Construction Site, or South of Docks. It is so predictable that it makes placing a RP in any of those three locations tantamount to suicide for your squad. The MEC simply mow you down as you spawn and advance on the flags.

    I'll admit, it was extremely boring playing on the MEC side on that map. I spent most of my time shooting the AA guns randomly into the sky. I did manage to get one kill during the map, it was with an RPG that I used to kill a boat near Hotel that had one occupant on the MG.

    My suggestions for fixing problem 1: Change the USMC flag cap order for all flags near the coast. I don't know what order you would put them in, but it absolutely has to be changed.
    Problem 2: Remove one or two of the flags within the city. I think you might be able to remove Park, but Market and Ibn Sina Street could definitely go without really any drastic effects on gameplay. Or maybe don't even get rid of the flags altogether, just move them around so that placing Rally Points isn't impossible.

  • #2
    Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

    To be honest I haven't played this map in .5 at all. Also I think Rhino just hasn't figured out how to make this map work real good in AASv2. I have told him CPs are just way too close together, and too many CPs on 64, it's rediculious, but he doesn't listen to me sadly.

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    • #3
      Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

      After the rally weekend, we'll be taking a look at making some server-side fixes of our own to address situations like this.
      |TG-12th| asch
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

        One detail I forgot was that I think I was playing it on 64 players. Yeah, way too many CPs on that particular setting. I can't really comment on 16 or 32 players for Muttrah (for all I know there might not even be a 16 or 32 version), but the 64 is insane.

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        • #5
          Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

          When you can pretty much toss a grenade from one CP to the next, it's not a good thing :P

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          • #6
            Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

            Originally posted by secret.squirrul View Post
            1: While the USMC used to have to take just the Docks in order to advance into the city, they now have to take two seperate flags which are on opposite sides of the city, and they must hold them both in order to advance.
            2: USMC are unable to place Rally Points that are even remotely close to the city. They must place them in the middle of the desert to the East of Hotel, SouthEast of Construction Site, or South of Docks. It is so predictable that it makes placing a RP in any of those three locations tantamount to suicide for your squad. The MEC simply mow you down as you spawn and advance on the flags.
            I 'm not sure whether the flag order should be changed or not, it 's quite hard to capture both Docks and Hotel but I like a challenge.

            Not being able to set up a decent rally point is another thing though, I definitely agree that the amount of flags should be reduced on 64 maps. Dropping a RP in the middle of the desert is useless, you don't even get enough time to drop your smoke...

            Other than that, it 's a great map :) .
            Xfire: Iaintyourm8 | Ingame: GhostDog | Steam: Zuigmijnballen

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            • #7
              Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

              I dont know if this is possible but bear with me.

              As it stands now you have to take docks and hotel to start taking inner city flags. Now what I was thinking was leaving dock and hotel cappable from the beginning. Now when the usmc caps docks the two city flags closest two it would be cappable, with out requiring hotel. On the other side if hotel is capped the two city flags closest to it would be cappable without docks being needed.

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              • #8
                Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

                Originally posted by johnflenaly View Post
                I dont know if this is possible but bear with me.

                As it stands now you have to take docks and hotel to start taking inner city flags. Now what I was thinking was leaving dock and hotel cappable from the beginning. Now when the usmc caps docks the two city flags closest two it would be cappable, with out requiring hotel. On the other side if hotel is capped the two city flags closest to it would be cappable without docks being needed.
                I had about the same idea but didn't think it would be possible.
                Only difference... when either Hotel or Docks is taken, the other one becomes uncappable and only the 2 closest flags to it become cappable.
                Xfire: Iaintyourm8 | Ingame: GhostDog | Steam: Zuigmijnballen

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                • #9
                  Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

                  i think an easy solution is just to remove this map for now, until its either increased in size or removed.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

                    The biggest problem I see is that the MEC has too many spawn points, and US has only the carrier, and placing a rally point is impossible.

                    If MEC had lesser spawn points, and US could place rallies wityhout being detected easily, it would be much better, as the fighting would happen on the city itself, not on the shore.

                    Also, after the first US squads are killed and their rallie are destroyed, it is pretty freaking impossible to place any US troops inside of it. There are few places where you can land the Hawks and Birds without being AA smoked. And in those places, there are 10-15 MEC troops with RPG to shoot you the moment you touchdown.

                    In a nutshell: you can't place rallies, you can't insert by helo. You can't play.

                    As a note, I did think the changes were terrible. Now we need both Docks and Hotel, both pretty hard to cap and pretty hard to defend, as MEC troops have spawnpoints really close to both flags. As result, their reinforcement get to land much faster.

                    And people keep sayinbg Basrah is unbalanced... Oo
                    |TG-69th|Kevlar



                    "Oh I know I don't think I see what I see what I'm thinking."

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                    • #11
                      Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

                      Other possible improvents too the map.

                      1. Very easy to implement I'd like to see the mini gun LB removed and a pair of Cobras to replace it.

                      2. This one is harder to implement. Remove the seewall and replace it with an actuall beach to allow some water born landings.

                      3. With the beach opened up add the first couple of flags closest to the beach in the first wave of cappable flags.

                      4. courtesey of the khan: more sewer intrances
                      Last edited by johnflenaly; 03-07-2007, 12:48 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

                        Originally posted by johnflenaly View Post
                        Other possible improvents too the map.
                        .

                        2. This one is harder to implement. Remove the seewall and replace it with an actuall beach to allow some water born landings.
                        This is a good idea actually. A few more openings so the sewer doesn't get camped. This would add more possibilities. Remove all but the rear AA guns. The AA kit handles the BH. THe little birds still need to land. And during turns heavy AT owns them.
                        |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                        XBL GT: Khan58

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                        • #13
                          Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

                          Originally posted by tHa_KhAn View Post
                          This is a good idea actually. A few more openings so the sewer doesn't get camped. This would add more possibilities. Remove all but the rear AA guns. The AA kit handles the BH. THe little birds still need to land. And during turns heavy AT owns them.
                          It's a great idea, but a lot of work... I think the easiest thing to do is remove some city flags to allow RP's to be placed centrally... It's actually not THAT difficult for the LB's to land in the alley ways there...

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                          • #14
                            Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

                            I think the changes are a good improvement. Yes the US have to split their forces, but I think the real point is that the MEC also have to. There are workable strategies for securing docks and hotel. The biggest problem before, was that docks was the only flag in the first group, and the MEC could sit there for the entire round denying the US a bridgehead. You have to have a CO, and you have to have competent SL's for this map. That applies to every map, but Muttrah is one of the toughest to crack.

                            RP's are an issue, but there are some places that you can get them down. A larger map would definitely be nice.
                            BFCL TF2 league admin

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                            • #15
                              Re: Not liking the changes to Muttrah City

                              Some interesting thoughts presented here on that map. The best place to provide constructive criticism is over in the PR forums, where there are currently two threads discussing Muttrah with the map creator, Rhino. If you do decide to leave feedback there, please be respectful and polite in leaving it.

                              Essentially, Rhino has admitted that the map is flawed in AAS2/.50 and he's not sure how to re-work it. I personally won't be playing the map again in AAS mode, since I've seen all the elements in place that need to be there (decent CO, decent pilots ferrying US around, coordinated assaults) and we still couldn't get past the first CP group.
                              Beatnik

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