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Are you trying to win or lose?

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  • Are you trying to win or lose?

    I've noticed a lot of behaviour on the server, that may have theoretical tactical value, actually contributes to the US team being wiped out. In order to continue ruining the game for those of us trying to win, I present Roots guide to getting owned.

    1) SL's - don't tell your team where to spawn.
    1b) If your SM's don't listen, don't waste time making them regroup with you.

    2) Waste as much time as possible trying to get kits and arguing over vehicles.

    3) If you see a helo squad, avoid joining it if you're a helo pilot. Having all of the helos in a single squad leads to a co-ordinated effort, which hampers losing.

    4) Under no circumstances, get your squad moving immediately to the current flag.

    5) In the event of finding yourself at a target flag, avoid the flag radius. Entering the radius may compromise your teams ability to lose.

    6) Protect yourself at all costs. It's perfectly reasonable to have the entire US team pinned down in it's main base on EJOD desert, by a single OpFor soldier.

    7) Rally points are for girls. Putting them down means you don't have to walk all the way back from the main base to where the action is. You can't lose if you're doing sensible things like deploying RP's.

    8) Ignore those silly HQ messages. They're trying to lead you to the right flag. Don't let them.

    Sound like fun to you? Well perhaps it might be an idea to start putting the mission before silliness.

    The US (and UK) teams are usually on the attack. If you don't get flags capped fast, you're asking to lose. Every second your squad spends wasting time getting sniper and HAT kits is time that you're not getting to the first flag. Speed is crucial in the opening game.

    Our place of business is inside the radius of the current flag. It does NOT need half the team sitting outside the radius in order to "protect" the 2 guys who are inside it. The way you win is by capping all the flags, then hunting down the remaining troops. The more tickets both teams have left, the better the win. The more troops you have inside the radius, the quicker we get the flag.

    There's no point defending a flag if you're not going to remain in the radius. If I recall, to attack and cap a defended flag, you need 200% more troops than the defending team has present. That means 1 squad can tie up 2 OpFor squads just by sitting inside the radius of the defended flag. There's also no point in defending the flag, if the rest of the team isn't going to move it's collective butt to the next target. It seems that many PR players fail to grasp that capping the next flag takes pressure off the previous flag. There's a prevelant mentality that if you all spread out around the flag, you'll somehow win. It ain't gonna happen.

    Rally points should be considered mandatory. It's not always possible to get them down, but even getting one down 100 meters outside the main base is better than none at all. The best way to use these, is for SL's to detach as soon as the first flag is up (slightly before if unopposed) and get the RP's down between the first and second flags. As the squad moves past, they can quickly get any kits that they've been ordered to. Specialist kits should ideally be arranged with the CO.

    Far too often, I see a QM message telling a player that there are no more sniper kits, followed by a string of identical messages as more players try and get the same kit. Those squad members are, quite frankly, screwing the team over. Even more disturbing, are the QM messages threatening the brig. That means players are determined to get a kit so that they can engage in me-play.

    The basic mechanics of this game haven't changed at all since BF2 was launched. It's all about the flags, not the kills. I've seen teams caught woefully out of position, because the other team managed to achieve the very basic plan of action I've laid out here. Better still, I've seen OpFor armour involved in being out of position, which means the other team doesn't have to deal with it. I've also seen teams utterly fail to achieve this, and after some drawn out fighting, the entire US team has been wiped out.

    The ONLY thing more important than winning, is playing the TG way. Our way of playing isn't something that particularly needs to be learnt, nor does it require constant practice to avoid losing the skill. Once you get TG, the next step is to apply that to beating the other team (with good grace).

    Tonight, I've seen the best and worst of games. I hope that we can have many fewer bad games going forward.
    BFCL TF2 league admin

  • #2
    Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

    agreed i was playing for about 3 hours till i got autokicked, and everytime i saw the US/brits do god awful...

    some good tips here...


    • #3
      Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

      Originally posted by Root View Post
      5) In the event of finding yourself at a target flag, avoid the flag radius. Entering the radius may compromise your teams ability to lose.

      8) Ignore those silly HQ messages. They're trying to lead you to the right flag. Don't let them.


      Great post root... Im still laughing xD


      • #4
        Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

        I can tell that you were on the US side of things tonight, which I was apart of for about 2 or 3 rounds in which the US got completely wiped off the map. Yeah, not so much fun. Which is why I'm drinking right now......well not just because of that.


        • #5
          Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

          I have one to add.

          9) Shoot anything that moves. Hell, shoot it even if it doesn't move. Don't bother checking your minimap for friendlies and who has time to wait 2 seconds for the friendly tag to pop up? You are here to kill and as long as you are killing something you are having a good time.


          • #6
            Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

            Aculle is recieving a Rep boost from me for that. Rule 9 is the guiding rule for Project Reality play and should be observed at all times.

            Root is getting a Rep boost because all of his rules ring true.


            • #7
              Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

              10) Avoid having a commander. They do annoying things like telling you to sit at one flag and play "defense" while the other squads get to have fun.
              Retired 6th DB


              • #8
                Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

                11) When moving to an objective, make sure you give away your position by firing .50s, miniguns on a helo, anything will do. The fact there are no immediate threats should not stop you from having a good time, really. The same applies if you are defending a position using a mounted weapon. Make sure you inform the enemy by firing a few warning shots. With the help of tracers, they will have a better chance of locating you and your squadmates.

                Last edited by Dick Blonov; 03-11-2007, 10:41 AM.

                «That looks like a really nice house except for that horrible bathroom.» Donrhos

                | |


                • #9
                  Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

                  Sorry, but there's two sides to every story. I'll play Devil's Advocate here, and mention a few things that a commander of US/UK troops might do to decrease chances of success.

                  1. Within two minutes of the game beginning, start criticizing all troops who have not gotten to an enemy flag yet.

                  2. Tell squads who have had to respawn at the main base they're useless.

                  3. Tell any squad leader at the base not to try to get kits, just get to the flag.

                  4. Criticize squad leaders for not having an Officer kit when they get to the flag.

                  5. Order a squad to a flag, then after they have run halfway there, change the objective. Then once they're almost there, change it back to the original starting location, all while complaining that everyone is just running around but not capping flags.

                  6. Do this to the same squad more than once.

                  7. Ask SLs why they don't have a way point down at the flag right after they tell you they were blown up en route.

                  8. Order everyone to get out of the base and cap flags, even after they spot incoming troops and armour.

                  9. Berate all squads for leaving the base when there are troops and armour coming in.

                  10. Never, under any circumstances, attempt to encourage SLs, raise troop morale, outline an overall plan or give positive criticism.

                  And remember: never, under any circumstances, accept responsibility for any failure. After all, you're the CO!

                  Seriously... You can't take a hodge-podge of TGers, pubbies and learners and treat them as if they're recruits and you're a drill seargent. Disappointment in others is something best kept to oneself, on or off the battlefield. If a team isn't meeting expectations, scale down the expectations, and become an instructor and encourage--don't scale up the frustration.

                  Granted, every point on the first list is correct, but the buck stops with the CO. If you can't be civil, treat fellow players with respect, and give reasonable orders without a constant stream of criticism, maybe the CO chair is not for you.

                  Living proof that "Teamplay ensmartens the idiotest of us!"


                  | | | | |


                  • #10
                    Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

                    12) If that moron steals your helo, just slap a slam on it as he flys away, that will teach him.

                    13) If you are a medic, under no circumstances should you heal anyone but yourself. Your shock paddles are just a l337 version of the knife and should never revive anyone. Ever. If an ally calls for a revive, proceed to "tea-bag" his corpse and move on.

                    14) Only fly a helo full of people if you have absolutley no idea what your doing. If you're a skilled pilot then stick to flying an attack chopper without a gunner. If you have real skillz you should be able to switch into gunner, gun, then switch back to pilot and let the engines warm up. All without touching the ground of course.

                    15) Under no circumstances should you listen to the commander's suggestions of spotting arty. If he really is a commander he can spot it himself.

                    16) While playing insurgents, the most effective use of spawn cars is achieving road kills at the enemy UCB.

                    17) Only sissies listen to their squad leaders. Real men TK their squad leaders for the officer kits.

                    18) Never blow up enemy rally points. Instead, proceed to stay near them and kill everyone who spawns there.


                    • #11
                      Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

                      Eeevil--- lol, don't hold back.

                      1,199 Have everyone leaving and then re-joining a sqaud because they don't want to be squad leader.

                      Root this sounds a lot like what went on last night. Great Post!

                      Just a note of opinion. Some players do feel more comfortable playing with certain kits. I am more comfortable playing medic, however last night I played AT and rifleman because that is what the team needed. Do I think I performed at my best, probably not but I had a great time. Some players will only play sniper and will wait until they get the kit. What can you do to these palyers? Nothing, unless you kick them from the server.

                      Yesterday I played with many of the -TG- clan and had a great time. Special thanks goes to thePenguineer.
                      "Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." Gen. George Patton


                      • #12
                        Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

                        19) Shoot at assets at base while waiting for orders or spawns. It's like a turkey shoot and makes for excellent practice! Oh wait, what did the SL just say? Whatever! I just shot a humvee at 50 yards!

                        20) Spotting enemy targets is a waste of time, I mean your gun is pointed at them, shoot them instead or better yet don't let your teammates know so you can claim the knife kill for yourself! Go get 'em tiger!

                        21) Get into arguments with SLs/Cos/admins. Nothing get a battle going in the morning like a few extra beats per minute of that ol' ticker!

                        22) Be sure to talk about your day/favorite TV show/out of beer misery/etc on comms. It brings us together around the fire and is a much needed for bonding. What the CO and the SL say to each other no where comes near what this valuable tradition brings.

                        [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                        "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                        - Wulfyn


                        • #13
                          Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

                          Being serious for a second and backing Root up.

                          You do not need requested kits to be successful in PR. They definitely make your job easier but they are not necessary. If the team is pinned back the only person who should be grabbing a kit is the SL going for the officer kit, everyone else should be focused on breaking out.


                          • #14
                            Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

                            #?: The best way to get a ride from a transport chopper is by shooting at it. Not only are you going to make it NECESSARY to land for repairs, but chances are you'll be clearing a seat in the process. Nothing says 'little bird land' better than killing all the passengers and damaging the rudder.

                            Better known as:
                            That noob who crashed the chopper.
                            That noob who ran over the mine.
                            That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                            That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...


                            • #15
                              Re: Are you trying to win or lose?

                              On the subject:
                              Root is absolutely correct. We all know it. But the problem really isnt us. With such a large population on the server, there is no way to make sure that everyone plays with proper squad mechanics and teamplay. The best we can do is try to set an example, which is what we try to do every day.
                              Perhaps we start imposing some slightly stricter rules, such as if you see someone requesting a kit to the point where the QM threatens the brig, they get the boot.

                              The major issue is that we have the post popular PR server out there, and for good reason. As this continues, we'll continue to bring more and more people in-line with the TG way of thinking, but we'll never have total unanimity with the player base. I understand it gets frustrating, but we have to keep at it. Some simple recommendations: if you see one particular team is struggling round after round, join that team and do the best you can to help out. I know that everyone likes winning, but perhaps they dont have a CO, or they need strong squad leaders. Sometimes a little extra push is what people need to get the juices flowing. Remember, there will always be more rounds to win and throwing yourself on the altar of sacrifice and helping a perenially losing team isnt going to hurt you, but rather help them.

                              Keep setting the example guys. We do a good job here.




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