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  • Ramming players with vehicles?

    I was watching a battlecorder vid of a tank crew I was in last night and I saw something in 3rd person that I missed in 1st person. A player on the opfor team came up behind the tank in a buggy and hid behind us for a bit and then took off. I restarted the vid to watch from that player's perspective to see how he could have possibly got up behind us like that without us seeing him.

    After the first couple of minutes I was stunned. This player grabbed a buggy at game start, people tried to get in for a ride but it looked like he told them to get out, they got out, he took off on the buggy, and for the, I kid you not, entire map, ran around mowing down players. When he got hurt he didn't work with a medic, he ran around for a supply truck to get more bandages. He was engineer and repaired his own buggy just fine while passing teamates vehicles that were in obvious need of repair. When he didn't have a buggy one time he took a less desireable vehicle out to a buggy that some players on his team just got out of and maybe wanted (it didn't look like he asked) and snaked the buggy.

    I don't mind players ramming others with vehicles if the situation warrants it, if they are in the way of my tank or whatever I will take the opportunity to roll on them, but for chrissakes I don't think it's right to make it the goal and do it for an entire round! And this from a player whose name I see on the server pretty regularly.

    The only thing that comes close in the rules is c4ing vehicles for suicide tactics. At the rate this guy flips or leaves vehicles in the field it may as well be. I really don't think this should be allowed. It seems totally lonewolfish and counter to teamwork on the battlefield except solely for the kill count. I dunno, it just seems kind of off, way off. Is this acceptable?

    This player's name is witheld from public posting. If an admin wants it, it's on tape. Hell, it should be on youtube it's so good, but maybe later.
    .



    [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
    "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
    - Wulfyn

  • #2
    Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

    Something similar to this got discussed a while ago in the PoE forum I think... the concensus is that incedentally running over opponents isn't something to raise a stink over, but getting in a vehicle just to use its bumper as a weapon crosses the line. Vehicles are for transportation, not for killwhoring!
    "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
    He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

    - Attributed to General George Patton, Jr.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

      Transportation vehicles are not intended to be used in this manner. It is one thing if a vehicle runs over someone en route to their objective, however purposefully doing so repeatedly is something the admins will deal with if we know about it.

      Please send a PM to an admin with the details so we can follow up.
      |TG-12th| asch
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

        http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...=suicide+jeeps

        Originally posted by Icky
        I want to make clear that this(Suicide Tactics) includes driving a jeep deep into enemy territory with the goal of running over infantry. Just because you may get 5 kills before being killed, doesn't make it acceptable.

        Roaming around in friendly territory, looking for incoming attackers and running them over is fine.

        Using vehicles as squad transportation to get to an attack point is fine.

        Driving back and forth through the middle of combat by the church on Orel (or something similar on any map) is not acceptable, even if you happen to survive.

        Loading up a jeep with C4 and attacking a tank with it is not acceptable, even if you happen to survive.
        Originally posted by Icky
        Just think in terms of reality. We are simulating combat to the extent that we can within BF2.

        If you were an american soldier, approaching Tikrit for the first time, would you drive into the town, hoping to run over a bunch of defending soldiers before getting killed, or would you drive carefully with your supporting infantry an armor, avoiding the possibility of getting flanked and destroyed?

        Conversely, if you were defending a military outpost, would you keep your vehicle inside and wait for the attackers to get to the gates, or would you patrol the perimeter, hoping to spot incoming attackers before they got close?

        If you happened to see two tanks and an APC in the distance, would you retreat and call for armor and air support, or would you load up your jeep with explosives and drive toward the armor column, trying to avoid their shells?

        Now you may find yourself driving your squad into territory that you believe to be undefended, only to find that there are enemy soldiers there. In that case, you would do whatever it takes to save your life, including running people over and running away, but as soon as you circle back for a second pass, it is obvious that you aren't taking the threat seriously, and that is what we call a suicidal attack.

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        • #5
          Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

          Yep. In case it isn't perfectly clear, this type of behavior is not acceptable on TG's PR server. I saw some other disturbing examples of similar behavior myself this weekend, from people who otherwise trumpet "realism" and "teamwork" in the forums, no less.

          What we (admins) need is people on both teams in Teamspeak telling us who is acting this way. It's good that we're discussing this in a forum just because some new faces apparently haven't gotten the message that this is not a server where behavior like this is tolerated.

          Behavior like this will more likely get you banned than kicked. We have zero desire to cater to lone wolves, knife squads, Deathrace 2000 buggy squads/lone wolves, etc.
          Beatnik

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          • #6
            Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

            Just remember, "if it looks like smacktard behavior it probably is and should be reported"







            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

              yeap guilty as charged i am the one you speak of, the one and only sunset city bandit.

              The round you speak of I dont think I was in top form (I was making lasaugna at the time and was probably prety sloppy, but I didnt want to get auto-kicked from the server because it was a pain in the ass to get in) But please check the logs however, because theres been many rounds where we had 2 lawn mowers full operational with 3 players each (6 total), patrolling around in formation, killing left right center, engaging in quite a few car chases... its all in good fun, we try to blow up enemy rallypoints on our patrols and just in general confuse and disorientate the enemy for our team. because the Chinese never loose this map, this is how we choose to play it. many will disagree with this, but the first 10 times you play sunset city and win easily, it gets old, the next 10 times, it gets completely boring, so you begin to think of ways to make it more amusing.

              We wont do it again on your server because we realize its against your rules, but sometimes its fun to act silly, especially when a map plays out the exact same way every single time (sunset)...

              I agree though, this "tactic" is neither realistic nor good for gameplay, although it does require quite a bit of teamwork to stay a float once the enemy catches on to what your doing. its actually quite easy to render this tactic completely useless, but that also requires a bit of teamwork and some patience.

              The only map you can currently do this on is Sunset City and thats because this map is a very 'vanilla' style map. I REALLY hope that the light jeeps are taken out of this map for this exact reason: it does not offer any realism and really does not fit the scenario whatsoever. However the whole map needs changing because the USMC simply never wins and the vehicle layout is WAY too vanilla bf2 (one of each of everything, Im surprised theres not a jet for each faction)

              I apologize for not sticking to your gameplay standards, Ill try to only join your server when I'm interested in 'serious' playing. Unforunately its very hard to take a few of these maps serious, and the fact that every time Ive joined Im put on the China/MEC, with a substandard USMC team who just cant get their **** together on the maps where USMC needs to be on the ball.

              So anyways if youve got to ban me from the TG server then I fully understand... to set an example for others. I wont take it personal I take full responsibility for my actions. If not I understand its a privledge to join your server and will try to stick to the guidelines posted.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

                This is perhaps a little off topic, and I don't mean to hijack the thread at all, but has TG ever operated a BF2 Battle Racer (mod) server? If not, has it ever been considered? With this being the second thread to address the topic of ramming in as many weeks (that I am aware of), maybe a little Battle Racer would get the bumper car heebie-jeebies out of some folks and they can return to playing TG style. :p

                Besides, it's mad fun and a good break from regular BF2 now and then. I don't think I have ever laughed so hard or as much as I did when I played BR not too long ago. I'm pretty sure my family thought I had flipped my wig for a while there. The madness and the chaos that ensues before the start of each race while people are jockeying for the pole position is enough to crack ribs, tear muscles, and rupture internal organs with laughter. So too are those who are knocked out of contention early in the race and decide run the rest in reverse. It's sheer havoc and some of the best fun I've ever had with BF2. :D

                Here's a decent demo clip for any who are interested: BR Madness
                Last edited by Braidedheadman; 03-12-2007, 07:07 PM.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

                  Icky used to set up buggie races on the vBF2 server when we were seeding it or sometimes on the private server.

                  Back on topic, fuzzhead: If the game is getting boring, make it more exciting by trying to deploy advanced formations, flanking and harder tactics, not by going on a joyride. While that may be more fun, it isn't very tactical. At least you fully understand what is expected of you and you know not to do it again on the server.

                  You could also try swiching to USMC and helping them get their act together or enjoy the uphill battle.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

                    Originally posted by fuzzhead View Post
                    yeap guilty as charged i am the one you speak of, the one and only sunset city bandit.

                    The round you speak of I dont think I was in top form (I was making lasaugna at the time and was probably prety sloppy, but I didnt want to get auto-kicked from the server because it was a pain in the ass to get in) But please check the logs however, because theres been many rounds where we had 2 lawn mowers full operational with 3 players each (6 total), patrolling around in formation, killing left right center, engaging in quite a few car chases... its all in good fun, we try to blow up enemy rallypoints on our patrols and just in general confuse and disorientate the enemy for our team. because the Chinese never loose this map, this is how we choose to play it. many will disagree with this, but the first 10 times you play sunset city and win easily, it gets old, the next 10 times, it gets completely boring, so you begin to think of ways to make it more amusing.

                    We wont do it again on your server because we realize its against your rules, but sometimes its fun to act silly, especially when a map plays out the exact same way every single time (sunset)...

                    I agree though, this "tactic" is neither realistic nor good for gameplay, although it does require quite a bit of teamwork to stay a float once the enemy catches on to what your doing. its actually quite easy to render this tactic completely useless, but that also requires a bit of teamwork and some patience.

                    The only map you can currently do this on is Sunset City and thats because this map is a very 'vanilla' style map. I REALLY hope that the light jeeps are taken out of this map for this exact reason: it does not offer any realism and really does not fit the scenario whatsoever. However the whole map needs changing because the USMC simply never wins and the vehicle layout is WAY too vanilla bf2 (one of each of everything, Im surprised theres not a jet for each faction)

                    I apologize for not sticking to your gameplay standards, Ill try to only join your server when I'm interested in 'serious' playing. Unforunately its very hard to take a few of these maps serious, and the fact that every time Ive joined Im put on the China/MEC, with a substandard USMC team who just cant get their **** together on the maps where USMC needs to be on the ball.

                    So anyways if youve got to ban me from the TG server then I fully understand... to set an example for others. I wont take it personal I take full responsibility for my actions. If not I understand its a privledge to join your server and will try to stick to the guidelines posted.
                    Personally, here's how I feel about it since I can't speak for others.

                    The reason I am a member of TG is because I agree with TG principles and guidelines and want to play on their servers in such an environment. If I didn't, obviously, I'd play elsewhere and it wouldn't seem to difficult to find other servers since there are quite a few.

                    I appreciate that you take responsibility for your actions, but I find your justifications to be a little confusing and possibly in need of a perspective shift.

                    I go to the bank quite a bit. Often I find it quite boring. Hmm, next time I'll pull a gun and rob the place. I'm pretty sure a judge hearing that justification would have problems with it. Yeah I know, it's just a game and not a bank robbery, but I'm just making a point.

                    If you are that bored I can suggest some alternatives:
                    1)Load up Carmegeddon or GTA - Plenty of smacking down to be had on those games.
                    2)Sit the map out - Yeah, maybe it's hard to get on, but I'd rather have anyone else take your spot.
                    3)Take on a more challenging role - SL or CO. I'd think that would add some things to keep you busy.

                    By fullfulling your needs to alleviate boredom your actions not only take away from the server environment that I particularly enjoy, but show others and sets a very bad example to others, which only furthers the cycle. It's bad enough that we have quite a handful of players that join the server and treat it, the players, and the assets like it's Romper Room Gone Wild(TM).

                    I really am amazed that you can say that your actions are caused by boredom because certain maps like Sunset always turn out a certain way (Although I've played it where the USMC does actually win).

                    But to have the hootspah to say that this is due to the other team not getting their **** together, and in turn causes you to take such actions confuses me. Maybe the other team is doing poorly because the lack of participating in teamplay and has a high percentage of players running around doing god knows what? So... it would be less boring if we had players that offered a challenge by working efficiently and effectively, organized, responsive, and dilligently put forth effort into empowering the team?

                    I'm confused because, and I could be wrong, the type of behavior that you resort to only encourages it in other players. Yeah, they might not be on your team that particular round, but the next time they come on and they are that other team that needs to get their **** together, they've learned that it's ok not too and that the server is OK with Romper Room play.

                    And so in turn, not only is the example set by such play perpetuating itself, I mean, you're causing your own boredom that you are justifying. And I gotta say not only causing your misery but degrading the server and also making it harder for the other players to play in this style and making more work for the already busy admins that probably would rather play than have to babysit the server.

                    I dunno, it just doesn't make sense to me. I've seen justifications like this to make it sound like there is some logical and reasonable cause that was highly motivational if not completely unavoidable but more often than not it's just because the player is trying to brew up some legitamately sounding backing in order to play how he really likes to play.

                    But from a regular player, it is not only creating a bad cycle, but just has the flavor of yeah I know how you guys play and I really mean no disrepect when I throw it all aside, forget why those standards are in place and disregard them, not caring enough to take that kind of play to another server, and play like a monkey when no admins are on and I can sneak under the radar.

                    I don't like to tell people how to play. I know my way isn't always the best way. I know we have players on the server that are not aware of TG ideals. I know we have to allot a certain amount of chill-factor when it comes to that. But this type of justification just shows me the typical 'hey I've got a problem (getting bored which 'causes' me to play like a goof and toss aside abiding by the ideals of the server) and I'm not going to do anything helpful or constructive, with the other patrons and hosts of the server in mind, to solve this problem.' I dunno, to me, that's just really bad.
                    .



                    [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                    "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                    - Wulfyn

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

                      yea sloppyjoe sorry i wasnt meaning to sound like what i was doing was justified on the server. i know it was dumb, but i did it anyways... im human i make mistakes. You can honestly say you have NEVER just went and did something stupid on a BF2 server, knowing full well it was stupid but just doing it anyways just cause it was fun?

                      yea, i tried to switch to USMC on several occasions but the server usually immediately moves me back, really not a big fan of the autoswitch but i know its necesary..

                      i apologize for 'setting a bad example' i know how it can be a real bitch to get any of the pubbies showing some intelligence, and by driving around like an idiot it undermines alot of the work it took to get there. thats why like ive said in the post above ive choosen not to do this kind of behaviour in your server in the future. Also if that map appears, I will leave no questions asked.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

                        Originally posted by Riki_Rude_BTYC
                        Maybe someone can clarify the rules and gentlemans conduct, but when a team is doing something that makes me loose ALL fun in the game and disconnect from the server, there is definatly something wrong.

                        Come on, this is the TG server, I come here for fun mature games, not for guys upping their stats and trying to get the most kills, which is exactly what I felt the US was doing.
                        Originally posted by fuzzhead
                        The round you speak of I dont think I was in top form (I was making lasaugna at the time and was probably prety sloppy, but I didnt want to get auto-kicked from the server because it was a pain in the ass to get in) But please check the logs however, because theres been many rounds where we had 2 lawn mowers full operational with 3 players each (6 total), patrolling around in formation, killing left right center, engaging in quite a few car chases... its all in good fun, we try to blow up enemy rallypoints on our patrols and just in general confuse and disorientate the enemy for our team. because the Chinese never loose this map, this is how we choose to play it. many will disagree with this, but the first 10 times you play sunset city and win easily, it gets old, the next 10 times, it gets completely boring, so you begin to think of ways to make it more amusing.
                        Ah the dilemma. I only say that because on the one hand you have a dev from PR advocating proper play of their own mod, yet on the other hand you have a lead tester of the same mod doing the exact opposite.

                        Everybody just needs to relax and realize this mod is still acquiring its sea legs. And everyone needs to realize that over time these gameplay issues on our server will be resolved by our excellent and dedicated admin team as well as our core group of Battlefield veterans. Every player has his own responsibility to augment the team experience. You reap what you sow. I encourage everyone to be patient, as I'm willing to bet that no one reading this would want to play Project Reality on any other server.

                        Thank you and good night.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

                          I found myself in a weird situation the other day. As insurgents I spawned into a spawn car with someone driving doing exactly this. I was faced with jumping out and probably dieing, or staying and ultimately getting killed by an RPG. (and having to bear this guys stupidity while I screamed stop in text!) I ultimately timed my abortion when he ran into a tree. Then I proceeded to embark on the few-minute hike back to my squad-leader. yeesh. Just wish I had written the guys name down, bit of a moron that one.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

                            Originally posted by jmaker View Post
                            Ah the dilemma. I only say that because on the one hand you have a dev from PR advocating proper play of their own mod, yet on the other hand you have a lead tester of the same mod doing the exact opposite.
                            That's quite a gem you found :icon_eek:

                            Everybody just needs to relax and realize this mod is still acquiring its sea legs. And everyone needs to realize that over time these gameplay issues on our server will be resolved by our excellent and dedicated admin team as well as our core group of Battlefield veterans. Every player has his own responsibility to augment the team experience. You reap what you sow. I encourage everyone to be patient, as I'm willing to bet that no one reading this would want to play Project Reality on any other server.
                            I guess I'll agree to disagree with you on this. Because the mod may be in need of refinement in general and some maps may be kind of imbalanced does not bear on the issue of players running around like buffoons.

                            I'd much rather see a team and teamwork ala TG style being used in action to do something related to the mod that is still being tweaked or in discussion for possibly being tweaked, like say, rape an cappable base that isn't yet cappable (which is a current issue) than see players running around playing in complete disregard for or in complete misalignment of TG standards.

                            If a map is one-sided, that's an issue that the players and the devs need to work out as a mod issue. I really can't see a player issue like say if I put C4 on my jeep and start ramming tanks with it, how I can relate it to the map being one-sided. I can't really see "oh but since the map is one sided and we're given these resources, this is how we can make up for it" as being a valid excuse or reason.

                            The mod may be acquiring it's sea legs, but I don't see any reasons why rules that generally apply to players conduct/maturity/intentions be it in BF2, CSS, AA, or whatever, should be relaxed because of mod or map issues. At least it's clear to me in this case, that acts like this don't have any connection to mod issues.

                            And if what you are saying is that the player standards should be relaxed or to relax on holding up to those basic standards until the game is balanced/fixed/finalized. Well anyone could say up to or even after PR final is out, "it's not balanced and needs more work", so therefore don't get upset if I get in a vehicle and mow people down for an entire map.

                            Naw, that just don't make no sense at all soldier. :madsmile:
                            .



                            [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                            "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                            - Wulfyn

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Ramming players with vehicles?

                              Originally posted by fuzzhead View Post
                              You can honestly say you have NEVER just went and did something stupid on a BF2 server, knowing full well it was stupid but just doing it anyways just cause it was fun?
                              Not really, the closest I've come is dropping landmines and C4 off an LB rail in an LB team, but I don't think that this is suicidal as the RL SOAR team has missions that include drops and spec-ops using the helicopter as a mode of transport/mission vehicle.

                              Oh, I've done loops and barrel rolls in the LB, that's kind of dangerous... but I did it on an empty server.

                              I guess to answer your question generally, I tend to act appriopriately in the appropriate environment. And if I don't, I expect consequences. And if I really want to do something but know it's not appropriate in the current environment, rather than undermine the efforts of those that create that environment, I'll try yo find a place where it's OK to do so.

                              If I had a sudden urge to TK an entire friendly team in CSS, I certainly wouldn't do it on TG's server. I'd look for a server (if there is one) where TKing your whole team would be acceptable (Maybe there is one where the highest negative score is the highest score).

                              Yeah, I guess people just like to do stupid things, thats normal, for a time. I did all sorts of stupid things for the sake of doing stupid things when I was a teenager. I guess that's why TG says maturity required. Because as you mature, that desire to do stupid things starts to go away. And in a team oriented environment, one player's stupid things impacts others.
                              .



                              [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                              "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                              - Wulfyn

                              Comment

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