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  • Commanding and Problem Players

    I wasn't entirely sure if this post is appropriate here, so if it is not please accept my apologies, but I thought it might spark some productive discussion.

    Earlier today (About 45-60 minutes prior to this post), I was playing on the server when it switched to Al Basrah. Having had some favorable experiences commanding previously and knowing that USMC on Al Basrah can really benefit from a commander, I decided to step up and try to improve my skills on a larger, more combined-arms map. Now, I'll be the first to admit I'm far, far from a good, experienced commander, but I thought it better we have a commander trying to learn than none at all (the latter being typically the case).

    The primary issue I wish to raise is that of problematic squad leaders. In particular, one of the squads under my command was being problematic. The SL in question was rude and directly insulting, and the resulting communications cluttered the commander channel unnecessarily. Now, I am aware there exist means to alert admins to truly disruptive players, SLs who do not follow orders, etc. However, the SL in question was not actually disobeying orders per se, nor was he breaking any rules that I could ascertain. As such, the last thing I wanted to do was point fingers and raise a fit over what at first struck me as a fairly trivial issue. I do not want to bother admins (who probably have better things to do) with trying to sort out some mess of drama. I was also fairly busy commanding, so I too did not really have time to get in an argument and try to carefully explain the situation to an external mediator.

    My question then is, what do you do with an individual who does not break the rules as such, but is disrespectful and uncooperative? To cite one of the lesser instances of my specific situation, one of the conversations went something like this (somewhat paraphrased):

    CO: [Places Destroy marker on a spawn car near the enemies the squad is engaging] "Be advised Squad X, there is an enemy spawn car at that location."
    SL: [very obvious sarcasm] "Oh, thanks, that's so useful. I know that."

    Now, it may very well have been the case the squad leader was aware of the car's location. Of course, I could not know that, and if they were already aware of the spawn car, then good on them. If they didn't know, then they now have valuable intel and a high-priority objective. It's simply provided for their convenience; if the squad leader already knew about it then that's the end of it, no harm done.

    The point is, in such situations where there is no direct order being violated or rule being broken but where the squad leader is being unnecessarily rude or (as was often the case) directly insulting, what is the proper course of action? I eventually started ignoring the problem squad, but the damage had been done and I lost my appetite for commanding and the game and did what I thought best, informing the other squads that I was resigning and quit.

    Now, I'm happy, no, ecstatic to receive criticism regarding my commanding. It's the only way I'll improve many aspects of it. I freely admit I need a lot of practice and refinement yet before I'm of great use to the team. But insults do not help me. As an aside, I'm curious if any other commanders, especially prospective ones, have run into behavior like this?

    I think that covers the primary issue I aimed to raise. If possible, I'd also like to suggest this thread as a "commanding resource," where commanders and non-commanders alike could offer tips, advice, criticism, and so on, both in general and directed toward specific rounds/actions. I'm particularly curious about what other players think of a given commander. I (and I'm sure others as well) really want to improve, and it's simply impossible without useful criticism. :)
    Last edited by BrotherCaptain Gaius; 03-12-2007, 04:54 PM. Reason: Time difference
    If you're the last man standing, you weren't trying hard enough.

  • #2
    Re: Commanding and Problem Players

    Respect and maturity is a requirement to play on our server. The player in question may have been following orders but if they are rude, disruptive, etc. then the admins would love to know of these players. They simply degrade the quality and image of our community and we'll be more than happy to remove them...... quickly.
    |TG-12th| asch
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    • #3
      Re: Commanding and Problem Players

      Originally posted by asch View Post
      Respect and maturity is a requirement to play on our server. The player in question may have been following orders but if they are rude, disruptive, etc. then the admins would love to know of these players. They simply degrade the quality and image of our community and we'll be more than happy to remove them...... quickly.
      I'm glad to hear it - I'll keep that in mind in the future. However, that raises another issue. The individual in question was only being disruptive over VOIP on the commander channel. A |TG| tag guy who was a squad leader overheard my half of the conversation and sought to resolve it (thank you, by the way), offering to discuss it over VOIP within a squad, but the problem SL refused and was not really disrespectful in the team-chat discussion. So the problem essentially is that any mediator wouldn't be able to monitor the other half of the commander channel and would have to take my word for it. I certainly don't expect an admin to take action on my word alone.
      If you're the last man standing, you weren't trying hard enough.

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      • #4
        Re: Commanding and Problem Players

        I've had this issue before. I simply informed the squad leader that I was doing my job, that doing his involves a certain degree of respect for the CO, and that if it continued to be an issue he would simply be muted.

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        • #5
          Re: Commanding and Problem Players

          There may not be an easy way to resolve this. I've had several "noobish" SL's who were more than happy to be a verbal @$$hat when I was trying to give orders. Most of them were also following orders at the time so all I could complain about was the attitude.

          "maturity required"

          Remember that phrase. If you have this problem again I'd advise reading that to the SL, if he/she remains a dingbat then infrom them that their behavior could get them banned for life. Most of them relax after that threat. Now I'm not trying to be an admin nor am I trying to do the job they do but I know for a fact that if a player is verbally abusive or immature they can be BANNED FOREVER. Perhaps it would help them for you to drop that hint when there is attitude about.

          If all else fails then contact an admin for help.

          HTH







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          • #6
            Re: Commanding and Problem Players

            Originally posted by BrotherCaptain Gaius View Post
            I'm glad to hear it - I'll keep that in mind in the future. However, that raises another issue. The individual in question was only being disruptive over VOIP on the commander channel. A |TG| tag guy who was a squad leader overheard my half of the conversation and sought to resolve it (thank you, by the way), offering to discuss it over VOIP within a squad, but the problem SL refused and was not really disrespectful in the team-chat discussion. So the problem essentially is that any mediator wouldn't be able to monitor the other half of the commander channel and would have to take my word for it. I certainly don't expect an admin to take action on my word alone.
            There isn't always an easy way to address situations like these, however when you first report it hopefully the admin is able to give a warning to the player. If the problem continues, we'll kick them. As for taking your word on it, the admins will be asking for details to understand the problem. If you're telling an admin that so-and-so is being an arse and we should kick them, then you're probably not going to get much help. :) But if you politely explain the situation and the facts, we can handle the problem much easier.
            |TG-12th| asch
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            • #7
              Re: Commanding and Problem Players

              easy way to remove any annoying squad leaders who refuse to obey orders is simply mute their voip.

              the way I deal with them when im commanding is I treat them as a mercenary group that were hired for you faction and now have gone rogue. I just inform all other squads to watch out for Squad X, they are highly dangerous and are not to be trusted.

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              • #8
                Re: Commanding and Problem Players

                Originally posted by fuzzhead View Post
                easy way to remove any annoying squad leaders who refuse to obey orders is simply mute their voip.

                the way I deal with them when im commanding is I treat them as a mercenary group that were hired for you faction and now have gone rogue. I just inform all other squads to watch out for Squad X, they are highly dangerous and are not to be trusted.
                LOL I can only imagine how the other squads reacted to that.

                On a more serious note; ive encountered disrespectful players, whether I was in there squad or I was comanding; now, I do ned to admit that my vocabulary has slipped but none the less I have apologized and regained my form. Not to long ago, I decided to devise a list of players I should look out for, just in case if I see them I would know what course of action i should take, this list doesnt consist of blatant rule breakers but just certain people I havent had the best of experince with. Thats all I need to say on this matter.
                AKA
                USMCSierraJuan
                Sierra_6177

                Defabian

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                • #9
                  Re: Commanding and Problem Players

                  I believe one of the problems of PR is the commander role: no one wants to do it. Why? Because it isn't anyone that wants to spawn on the back flag, hide out, stay prone to the rest of the round with a zoomed map of the battlefield on your face.

                  I do appreciate you taking the time to do that for us, it is really cool from your part and we do need some commanders around to make things easier.

                  Commanders can't spot, but they can "show the way" to SLs to things, avoiding deaths and making the squads work better. Too bad some people still do not take that as a serious role.

                  To finish off, i'll give you a hint: when commanding the US team on Al Basrah, have the two A-10 pilots form a squad. Then, when you spot an insurgent squad moving on clear ground, a tank or simply a spawn car, send a destroy order to the A-10 squad and tell them: "A-10s, bomb here, enemy squad". Keep an eye out there, and after the bombing, check to see if it was sucessfull, and give some feedback to the pilot. I have played just ONCE like that, but I can tell you insurgents wouldnt even dare to move out of the city to an open area, as they got wiped every time.
                  |TG-69th|Kevlar



                  "Oh I know I don't think I see what I see what I'm thinking."

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                  • #10
                    Re: Commanding and Problem Players

                    If there's anything worse than commanding bad SLs that's probably being one of his SMs... God i hate when all the good squads are full/locked and i'm forced to join a crappy squad that is not helping the team, most common example is a SL who doesn't know anything about basic war tactics and just goes straight to a flag to cap it without even knowing there are 5 SMs following him all over the map because the idiot didn't even bother requesting the Officer kit to deploy a rally point...:icon11:
                    |TG-Irr| Argentinedude

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                    • #11
                      Re: Commanding and Problem Players

                      Originally posted by Argentinedude View Post
                      If there's anything worse than commanding bad SLs that's probably being one of his SMs... God i hate when all the good squads are full/locked and i'm forced to join a crappy squad that is not helping the team, most common example is a SL who doesn't know anything about basic war tactics and just goes straight to a flag to cap it without even knowing there are 5 SMs following him all over the map because the idiot didn't even bother requesting the Officer kit to deploy a rally point...:icon11:
                      That's why communication is good. If they can hear you that is... The first thing I would do is explain a few things, even as a SM to the SL. You can always teach him how to set a rally point or tell him that he's leaving teamates behind. The problem is most of the players on our server play the "rush rush rush get in and kill kill kill as fast as possible to respawn and do it again and let's win this thing by which team can throw as many bodies on the pile as fast as possible" game. Just last night I was SL of an air transport squad with a CO in place and we were trying to coordinate, I told my pilot not to go anywhere yet. After a minute of sitting on the ground and a few random players get on the helicopter with no orders through their SL or CO to me, even after spamming text chat over and over, transport requests go through your SL and SLs ask the CO, my pilot takes it on himself to drop these guys off, at a spot that HE thinks they should be dropped off at, because the passengers never gave him a destination. Yeah, I berated him for that and made it clear for a second time to not fly without my order, period. You know what I got back? Cmon man we need to get men out there we can't be sitting here, we're gonna lose, we're gonna lose, the CO is a dumass, this ain't how you play this game, etc etc etc. And this guy is a regular at our server.

                      Goes to show you how way off our players are. But it's up to us to show them the ways. Its also up to us to report those that don't want to play those ways or they keep giving off bad examples and keeping our server at the deathmatch level with all the others.

                      .
                      .
                      .

                      Lately, what I've been doing is this: When members join my squad I do a comm check with them "Rambo1337 can you hear me?" I give them some time to respond. If I don't get one I type in that hearing VOIP on this server is a REQUIREMENT and give him the boot.

                      Its not only extremely hard to play tactically without VOIP but it's also impossible to teach TG ways without it unless you want to not do your other squadly duties and take a lot of time to type to the player.

                      I still haven't decided, personally, if I think mics should also be required. On one hand I think they should because it speeds up almost all facets of the game, on the other hand SLs SMs and COs can do they job without it, when they are doing their job that is. But I dunno, maybe it's just me, when I'm in the battlefield I'd much rather hear things on my headset than take my eyes of the sights to read text. Usually I don't do it, not for spite or anything, but I'm just too busy trying to keep my and my teammates butts alive.

                      Owning the game and having a computer is a requirement, obviously, to playing on our server. Having a decent internet connection as well. Why can't people dish out 20 bucks for a headset?

                      Playing without voice on a tactical server is like playing professional soccer on a wet field without cleats. Yah, you can move around on the field, sure. But it just don't make no sense.
                      .



                      [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                      "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                      - Wulfyn

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                      • #12
                        Re: Commanding and Problem Players

                        I had this once as well.

                        I asked Squad X to move to X Location and the squad leader said:
                        "Would you stop giving me f***ing orders, I know what I'm doing."

                        IM sorry but that right there turned me off from being Commander and i stepped down right away, and it will be a while before i step up again.

                        Agnew

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                        • #13
                          Re: Commanding and Problem Players

                          Originally posted by J.Agnew7 View Post
                          I had this once as well.

                          I asked Squad X to move to X Location and the squad leader said:
                          "Would you stop giving me f***ing orders, I know what I'm doing."

                          IM sorry but that right there turned me off from being Commander and i stepped down right away, and it will be a while before i step up again.

                          Agnew
                          Don't let that get to you. First, rules are clear; follow command orders. Second, the kind of language and behaviour this SL exhibited is just not acceptable. If this ever happens to you again, don't hesitate to get on TS and report it to an admin.


                          DB

                          «That looks like a really nice house except for that horrible bathroom.» Donrhos

                          | |





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                          • #14
                            Re: Commanding and Problem Players

                            We don't like that here. Sorry it happened and please don't be afraid to CO. But the best thing you can do is report problematic players so that we can be gone with them.

                            http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ic-player.html
                            .



                            [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                            "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                            - Wulfyn

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Commanding and Problem Players

                              Originally posted by J.Agnew7 View Post
                              I had this once as well.

                              I asked Squad X to move to X Location and the squad leader said:
                              "Would you stop giving me f***ing orders, I know what I'm doing."

                              IM sorry but that right there turned me off from being Commander and i stepped down right away, and it will be a while before i step up again.

                              Agnew
                              Yes it happened to me when playing Operation Ghost Train.
                              It was a huge mess, i was trying to send 2 squads to flank an enemy position, but instead of moving as indicated, they would go STRAIGHT to the flag... some SLs got it right but the rest of their squad didn't follow him and they were slowly pushed back to the other side of the river. By that time we were losing and i noticed on the commander screen that 2 squads were spawning at the airstrip and someone was playing with the gatling gun, i told them to get moving and i got some immature responses, then i left the server.
                              |TG-Irr| Argentinedude

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