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Suggestion Idea: Primer

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  • Suggestion Idea: Primer

    I have a suggestion guys. Now I realize that this is going to catch a lot of flak, but thats the purpose. I'd like to see something constructive be added in that helps with our woes. I'm not entirely sure it's possible, but we do have some of the game devs that browse our forums and they might be able to interject on the feasibility.

    I suggest we REQUIRE the reading and signing of a primer (similar to the way we do it with TG's NS servers) in order to access certain parts of the game. Expanding on this:

    One of our major griefs lately has been people abusing specialty kits. We see this in the form of people requesting kits for 5 minutes straight (all the while, the QM is threatening brig time) and then run off and die in 20 seconds. Also in people getting kits to drive suicide tactics in tanks and other vehicles, as well as grabbing a helo and running off without taking anyone along, just because they needed a ride.

    This is something we could easily resolve (if we could find a way to code it in) by limiting the specialty kits (read: kits that you have to request) to people who have read and agreed to the terms of the primer, SOPs and rules. This would mean simply that people who are going to use specialized kits have read and agreed to use them based on the terms which we strive to uphold in creating the TG atmosphere.

    We could code in a simple message that tells the player that they "dont have the proper training to use the requested equipment, please refer to the PR Forum at www.tacticalgamer.com" and doesnt drop them the kit.

    I realize that this isnt a cure-all, but it's a start to not having 50 people camping a supply zone trying to get a marksman/sniper kit. As an addendum to the coding, optimally, the only specialty kits that would be allowed for non-signed players would be the Officer kits. That way, people could still lead a squad, but it would not allow them to fly, bogart kits, or drive certain vital vehicles until they agree to play by our rules.

    Please limit responses to constructive feedback only.

  • #2
    Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

    I think the idea is fantastic if possible. Though I'm not clear if you're wanting the PR devs to do this for us or if this is something you'd like to see scripted in from the TG side of things? I don't think it would be fair for the PR Devs to do this strictly for TG, but if TG could come up with something like that it would be fantastic. Don't know how simple a matter that would be though.
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    • #3
      Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

      Sounds like this may be on the impossible side of the coding thing, for starters.

      While I think it would prevent some smacktardism, I think it would also disillusion prospective "quality" players. I personally don't like the idea of being compelled to sign some sort of form just to use the existing features of a game. Also, what happens when the smacktards realize all they have to do for kit access is log into the forums and make one post? There's nothing that says their behaviour will change, which means likely an increased workload for the admins.

      Thoughts on these?
      [squadl]
      "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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      • #4
        Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

        Good idea, I think its impractical though and would add frustration. Isnt this possible to resolve with the help of an admin?
        |TG-Irr| Red

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        • #5
          Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

          Sounds like a good idea on its face, but I think this is the sort of thing that TG regulars could help out with on the server. I know it sucks sometimes to have to take time away from your own fun to explain to someone that that's not how we do it here, but sometimes you'll get a really good response from someone and they'll change their ways. That's how TG grows.

          Unfortunately you'll get treated like a jerk from time to time when you try to explain someone TG's way of playing. That's when you may want to key your mic in TS and ask for an admin to correct things.
          "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
          He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

          - Attributed to General George Patton, Jr.

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          • #6
            Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

            I'm going to try a little experiment. Next time an admin is on my team I'm going to CO again and introduce my team to some concepts about kits.
            .



            [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
            "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
            - Wulfyn

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            • #7
              Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

              Well, the CO can just order certain kits to be used by certain squads and people. If someone disobays, that's disobaying CO orders and against our rules.

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              • #8
                Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

                I think Acid found me out. So I unveiled my experiment early.

                While I think everyone should read the primer, I have a more in-game TG style alternative solution:

                http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...anization.html
                .



                [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                - Wulfyn

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

                  The ideas submitted by the OP seem like the first step in a slippery slope to all-out privatization of a server - restricting it to only registered/supporting members only. The perpetrators of these actions are (I hope) almost exclusively transient pubbies and there's not a whole lot that can be done about them if they're only on the server for an hour or two at a time, or ever. Anyone who ends up a real member of this community is here for a reason and will (again, ideaistically) take it upon themselves to read and follow the rules and agreements set forth on their own accord. Kicking a pubbie with a message to come to the forums and brush up on the rules will likely affect them only as far as to mutter "Pfft" and hit the server refresh button for a new game. Any transients actually interested in our playstyle will generally accede to any in-game warning or rule announcements before it gets to that point.
                  |TG-6th|Belhade
                  "I am actually looking forward to watching Jon and Kate plus 8." - Dirtboy




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                  • #10
                    Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

                    Ok guys, i'll expand a bit on my original post cause there seems to be a lot of questions.

                    1.)this would be TG only, not game-wide. I simply asked for dev input because they might be able to comment on the feasibility of coding something like that.

                    2.)limiting the request kits to people who have signed a primer of some sort simply means that people have come in and read the rules. Yes, we will get people that come in, sign and never post again. However, it would be a great attractor for building on the community too. I started out with NS and signing the primer was the only thing that initially brought me to the forums, now I cant go more than a few hours without checking them.

                    3.)remember that limiting the kits still gives people who dont feel like reading the rules access to all the standard kits as well as SL options.

                    4.)We have a great admin team. However, with the amount of time that these problems go on, we'd have to have someone sitting there doing nothing but admin legwork all day and night. Having the CO order kits around is nice and all, but how realisitic is it for someone who knows what theyre doing to CO and then someone else to sit there and regulate the people who dont listen? not very.

                    5.)Ive spent a lot of time explaining the rules and the way we do things to people and i'd say about 65-75% of them just ignore me. This is a gimme to begin with, but the sheer volume of people that pass through makes it tough to get the message across when half the time people have voicecomms muted or dont read chat messages.

                    6.)The main reason I proposed it is for this reason: We're trying to promote a very very specific methodology and philosophy of gameplay while trying to enjoy the game ourselves. Sure, having to come into the forums and read/sign a set of rules and proceedures is a pain and a surefire deterrent for some. But for those people who are looking for what we have to offer to begin with, it wont be a problem. I seriously doubt the workload for the admin staff would increase, simply because we'd probably get to know a lot of people a lot better, meaning that we can talk to them as a member of the community rather than a stranger if they start messing up.

                    Also, specifically in regard to Belhade's post: requesting a kit doesnt kick the player. It just denies them the kit unless theyve signed the primer. Most people who wouldnt care to listen anyway will just see that they didnt get the kit and go on their merry way with whatever they had. If its someone that seriously wants to play right, theyll see the message and say "oh, maybe I should go do that." Also, the server only risks real privitization if we let it go there. Running a server is largely different from politics in that theres fairly clear rights and wrongs. Privitizing the server is bad. We know this and can prevent it from happening, but I still think this would be a helpful step to solving some issues.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

                      Originally posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
                      1.)this would be TG only, not game-wide. I simply asked for dev input because they might be able to comment on the feasibility of coding something like that.
                      I don't think anyone took it as to mean change the entire mod. I'm pretty sure people understand that this is for the TG server. Unless there's something else that you're trying to state here?

                      3.)remember that limiting the kits still gives people who dont feel like reading the rules access to all the standard kits as well as SL options.
                      Again, I wouldn't appreciate a server preventing me from using built-in game features simply because I didn't sign what basically amounts to a ToS. Aside from that, say I'm a new player just experiencing PR for the very first time on the TG server, which I'm visiting because it had a good ping (how I found TG). Now I don't get to use certain things because I haven't made a post in the forums? Regardless of whether or not my mindset meshes with TG, I'd be headed elsewhere.

                      4.)We have a great admin team. However, with the amount of time that these problems go on, we'd have to have someone sitting there doing nothing but admin legwork all day and night.

                      ...I seriously doubt the workload for the admin staff would increase, simply because we'd probably get to know a lot of people a lot better, meaning that we can talk to them as a member of the community rather than a stranger if they start messing up.
                      These seem to be conflicting statements, which seems confusing. In any respect, I don't see how the admin load would not increase if we instituted this signing "rule" without the added benefit of the mod itself being able to restrict kit selection. You'd have an increase of people signing the forum just for access to kits but not necessarily following the rules, meaning admins would have to make appearances more often.
                      [squadl]
                      "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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                      • #12
                        Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

                        Originally posted by Ferris Bueler
                        6.)The main reason I proposed it is for this reason: We're trying to promote a very very specific methodology and philosophy of gameplay while trying to enjoy the game ourselves.
                        Ferris,

                        I've played with you once in a squad and I already know that I'd play with you anytime. And I know where you're coming from in this. But let me pass on some experience and some things I've learned and noticed.

                        Back when I was playing TG Eve, we had guys doing wierd things and not following directions and on and on and things were more often than not quite messy. I started preaching the teamwork thing and had a huge thread going finger pointing and telling people what they should do and so on. And for the first, and so far, only time, I received a negative rep which comment was "Your idea of teamwork is not the only one" (Thanks CD!).

                        I was pissed off. Here I was trying to get the team in shape and teach them the ways and busting my butt off to get this? After a while, it sank in that the words given to me had a very valuable lesson in them. Many of us are "teamwork oriented" and have a lot of ideals in common about that, and many of us get frustrated when players stray from "it" or don't get "it". But what "it" is has a very wide range. Some team players like to micro manage, some like to play loosely, some like to play fast, some slow, some like to play as "realistically" as possible while some like to play somewhat realistically while maintaining that "it is still a game".

                        The admin and GO staff, and I think for many good reasons, do not seem to want to set an extensive list of RULES that dictate how to play or even how to "teamplay". The rules they have set are mainly mechanism to get rid of the complete ass^s and uncooperative players. This kind of approach weeds out the completely off players while still allowing a wide base of "teamplayers" to play in their style.

                        What the admin's and rules seem to strongly encourage and enforce is communication - the base and necessity for any and all styles of "teamplay". They also seem to be oriented towards following a chain of command.

                        While I wish I could always join the server and play with likeminded players and not have to deal with foolery and have a list of rules to back up my ideals that could swiftly and effectively remove players that make the server miserable, I have to nod my head to the way the rules are laid down in that they are more designed like a basis from which to work from, like a constitution is some ways.

                        The most important rule IMHO is communication. And this is one I think the admins should, if they don't, take the most seriously. Other than that and the basic rules about taking care of complete idiots (like intentional TKs and stuff), it's up to us to teach and encourage "teamplay"; be it the way I like it or the way you like it. It's up to us to remove players that don't communicate or can't understand a chain of command because they don't know the absolute basics of teamplay. Once those players are screened out, what we have left is a range of players from people that have a lot more to learn, to our General Pattons (or other "great" leaders).

                        The only thing we can, and I think wisely so, do, is screen out the bottom of the barrel players through police-ing (sp?) and foster the rest. The only thing I really can't emphasize enough is that the admins stay peppy and vigilant and take PMs very seriously when it comes to things like "such and such player ignored my SL instructions, never talked back, did not communicate" etc, and let us know that we're doing a good thing.

                        I completely disagree with any sort of herd-the-players-to-sign-an-agreement-in-order-to-play rule. People that have sparks of teamplay in their minds, will come on their own. People that don't will get weeded out eventually, if we report them and the admins take care of it. By forcing people to come, we'll get people doing it because they have to, and that won't get them to become teamplayers by reading the SOPs if it's not in their hearts. The best we should do, IMO, is let them know there is a website, and lots of information, some rules and SOPs, available to them if they are interested.

                        I hope that makes sense, and I think I've started things off in the right direction with my ideas in two other threads.

                        http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...anization.html

                        http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ning-time.html

                        You're lucky I got to you before CD :row__523:
                        .



                        [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                        "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                        - Wulfyn

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

                          "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SloppyJoe again."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

                            Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
                            "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SloppyJoe again."
                            Ditto!
                            | | |

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                            • #15
                              Re: Suggestion Idea: Primer

                              I really do appreciate the input guys. (i'm quite smashed at the moment, so reading SJ's post and writing all of this coherently is quite the challenge.) It was an idea I thought i'd toss out there to test the waters and also to promote a little more awareness amongst us all as to the depth of the issues on the server. We're doing a hell of a job with the server guys, what with being ranked #1 and all. Lets keep it rolling.

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