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  • Request: Respect for Named Squads

    This has been discussed before, but it's worth repeating.

    Earlier today I witnessed a lot of confusion between two named squads. One was named "Chopper," the other "Air." The confusion arose when a member of the "Air" squad began flying a helo that the "Chopper" squad was using for their missions. Eventually, members of the "Chopper" squad were flying jets and members of the "Air" squad helos.

    My request is this...

    Please respect the rights of named squads to utilize the assets and vehicles they have created their squads for. In this case I feel the member in "Air" squad who wanted to fly a helo should have joined up with the "Chopper" squad. There were slots open. But if there weren't, the choppers should have been left for the "Chopper" squad. And when possible please be as specific as you can with your squad names. Examples would be Helo, Jets, Tanks, Transport, etc. The more specific the squad name the easier it is to identify their needs for particular assets.

    Also, when asked by a named squad to relinquish a vehicle or asset, please do so. Do not argue, do not be stubborn, simply give it up or join their squad and work with them.
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  • #2
    Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

    That was me.. I was in TG AIR and chopper squad wanted me to join them. Chopper squad had 1 open slot and I already had a gunner, meaning we needed 2 slots.

    Moreover, if i swap squads while flying, i get killed because the 'ownership' still belongs to the original squad designation that I was when I jumped in the chopper.
    |TG|Switch

    Better known as:
    That noob who crashed the chopper.
    That noob who ran over the mine.
    That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
    That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

      Originally posted by Switch View Post
      That was me.. I was in TG AIR and chopper squad wanted me to join them. Chopper squad had 1 open slot and I already had a gunner, meaning we needed 2 slots.

      Moreover, if i swap squads while flying, i get killed because the 'ownership' still belongs to the original squad designation that I was when I jumped in the chopper.
      Hey Switch. Sorry if my post came off as critical, I'm sure it did. I've been in the land of sleep deprivation for some time and on occasion I fail to get my point across like I wanted to. For that reason I tried to leave names out or turn it into a discussion of right and wrong. In this case I think it was a matter of confusion rather than any wrong doing.

      In any case, I found the incident to be worth noting as it was a confusion that arose between two named squads that both had a claim on air assets. To reiterate the most important point, I feel when naming a squad the squad leader should try to be as specific as he/she can when naming their squad in order to prevent this kind of confusion from occuring in the future.
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      • #4
        Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

        No worries, I'd have swapped if i didn't already have a gunner. I just couldn't type any responses or else chopper flips over.
        |TG|Switch

        Better known as:
        That noob who crashed the chopper.
        That noob who ran over the mine.
        That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
        That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

          Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
          Please respect the rights of named squads to utilize the assets and vehicles they have created their squads for. In this case I feel the member in "Air" squad who wanted to fly a helo should have joined up with the "Chopper" squad. There were slots open. But if there weren't, the choppers should have been left for the "Chopper" squad. And when possible please be as specific as you can with your squad names. Examples would be Helo, Jets, Tanks, Transport, etc. The more specific the squad name the easier it is to identify their needs for particular assets.

          Also, when asked by a named squad to relinquish a vehicle or asset, please do so. Do not argue, do not be stubborn, simply give it up or join their squad and work with them.

          A-Dog,
          Last night I SLed "AIR TRNSPT" on muttrah city with 3-4 SMs. I established with the CO that squad 3 could do all the air transport and leave the other squads to not need pilots. He was ok with it and started giving me orders to pass down to my pilots. Of course, the usual guest crowd began snaking choppers when they could.

          I informed an admin on TS about the situation, and he didn't want to touch it. So, I'm giving up trying to get organized on our pub server. Squad names, asset requisition for specialty squads, even CO to SL to SM chain of command in regards to such squads, doesn't mean squatola. Good luck holding down your key at the asset spawn, and maybe bring a buddy or two to increase your odds and be prepared to get slung a bunch of names if you should prevail.

          I'll honor your squad, and even praise you for naming it well for organizational purposes. But when 90% of the players on the server are guests, and we can't do anything about it, even with chain of command, they will have the run of the house and you'd have better chances winning the lottery.

          I joined TG to play with players that were above TKing, running around like chickens with their heads cut off, people grabbing at anything they can and acting like barbarians in a primitive state of nature (see Hobbes). I didn't expect anything perfect or even near perfect on the TG pub server, but apparently it is more of a science experiment gone mad or more of a server to resort to playing on when you're bored or it's not a booked private server or a password night. But I'll tell you what, I've seen some good non-TG players on the pub server, and it's pretty damn hard to convince them of TG style or to join TG when all they see around them is romper room.

          Sorry Dog, didn't mean to hijack your thread. I'll respect your squad, a handful of TG players playing probably will too, but most of the players on the server won't and there's no way to enforce it. So it's a bit moot and get ready to get frustrated.
          Last edited by SloppyJoe; 03-17-2007, 07:01 PM.
          .



          [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
          "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
          - Wulfyn

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          • #6
            Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

            That really does suck Slop. Maybe an admin would like to chime in with their take on the situation. From what Slop is saying it sounds like the problem players in question were not only jacking vehicles, but not following the chain of command as well. Which is a kickable offense if I'm not wrong.

            On a side note Slop...make sure you show up for password nights as I'm sure the population of smacktards on the server will be next to none for those hours.
            | | |

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            • #7
              Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

              Originally posted by SloppyJoe
              I informed an admin on TS about the situation, and he didn't want to touch it.
              If you're not satisfied with an admins response, you should be addressing it via PM, not making public remarks about their actions.
              Last edited by Root; 03-17-2007, 07:36 PM. Reason: mingmong
              BFCL TF2 league admin

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              • #8
                Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

                In fairness, I don't really think it was a post about an admin's specific response.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

                  And before my thread gets locked, let's steer it back to the point at hand...that respect for named squads ensures a more organized and efficient teamwork environment. Any more comments about the decisions mentioned about should be in private. :D
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                  • #10
                    Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

                    Originally posted by mingmong View Post
                    In fairness, I don't really think it was a post about an admin's specific response.
                    Indeed.

                    I included it only as a supplement to A-dogs idea and to give him a heads up. I discussed this with the admin in TS privately, asking about chain of command/squads & assets requisitioning, and the conclusion from that conversation was that snaking assets from a squad that intends to have a focussed use for them, even with a CO involved, was not something that admins enforce. End of discussion; no PMs needed.

                    I'm not arguing the ruling nor trying to circumvent the PM system or make public remarks solely about this particular issue. I accept the ruling and am just informing A-Dog of it and anyone else that expects assets to be organized by specialty squads that our pub server is just not going to be the place to expect that.

                    Our pub server is just that. Be it a monkey's paradise, I'm fine with that. As long as I know what to expect and I know what I'm logging into.

                    Back on topic, to encourage you A-dog and others; thankfully we have PW nights to look forward to in order to play TG style in a tactical, organized, communicative, and monitored environment. Your ideas would be welcome, I would think, for sure on these nights and I encourage respecting and working with squads that wish to use certain assets effectively and with teamwork in mind. All other nights are good nights to get drunk and run around shooting dudes and play with our guests in their style of playing. If ya can't beat em join em!
                    .



                    [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                    "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                    - Wulfyn

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

                      Great who woke up Root???? I guess you kind of have to shrug you shoulders as to why a non-pilot or engineer would join an air sqaud anyways. It makes me chuckle when I am in a special squad and people join and just start doing their own thing. These people, for whatever reason, are afraid to make their own squad. I definately see how frustrating it can be, however there is nothing we can really do except explain to the sqaud mate what the squads mission is. You never know maybe they realy did not know an air squad was just for air assets.
                      "Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." Gen. George Patton

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

                        Here's the thing, though - you're CO. Your Chopper Squad SL gets you on the horn, says someone keeps half inching your assets. Gives you a name. You find out what squad the guy is in, and start talking to the SL about it. If it continues, someone has disobeyed an order - either CO -> SL (maybe he really wants to be able to control the chopper) or more likely SL -> SM. When it's boiled down to this, is it any different than any other kind of disobeying orders?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

                          There's value in named squads, I feel. However, there's also potential for abuse, IMHO. As I understand it, servers are set up with a delay before the start of each round (on map changes) to allow people with slower rigs to load the map and be on par with those who have faster ones once the round starts, allowing everyone equal opportunity/chance at hopping into/picking up whatever assets interest them.

                          I've noticed that named squads tend to defeat the purpose of this since people with faster rigs are still able to create a named squad before those with slower rigs. In effect, they are able to "tag" their favorite assets (with out actually having taken possession of them first) as "theirs" before the round starts and ahead of everyone else.

                          Again, I see the value of named or specialty squads so I'm not sure what the solution is. But when it comes down to just one or two people (who I will not name here) tying up the same assets round after round in this manner, one has to wonder at the validity of the practice.
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

                            When I do an air transport or LB specop squad or even a tank squad, I welcome people to join it. If we have too many people I try to rotate out positions. If I ever lock the squad (very seldom) it's usually because random people start swarming into it that do not want to play the role and I need to control the flow for a bit, but the players that really do ask for an invite or to unlock it and I welcome that as well. I would think it possible to be abused if players don't allow for some rotation and simply grabapple for their buddies.

                            And as well, the SL obeys the CO or SM obeys the SL rule can be abused as well. Some johhny shmuck could SL his squad and tell them all to go engineer and guard a point in middle of nowheres.

                            I'm sure that there is a line where it becomes fairly clear what's going on.
                            .



                            [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                            "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                            - Wulfyn

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Request: Respect for Named Squads

                              Yeah, you can have multiple people in a "helo" squad, even if there's just one helo on the map (Mao for example). You just hand-off the keys after each death... "sharing" - it's something I'm working on teaching my 3yr old son. ;)


                              That being said - it doesn't make sense to have 6 soldiers trying to share the same asset... maybe one alternate (a squad of 4 for a single cobra - two gunner/pilot teams)?

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