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Smalls arms fire and rally points

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  • Smalls arms fire and rally points

    According to the Gentleman's Agreement, we can now destroy rally points with rifle-fire. But it takes 50 rounds to destroy it.

    I think this is a grey-area involving spawn camping. I'm not going to advocate camping a rally point for kills, but I'm also not going to engage it by myself with small-arms fire. That'll draw A LOT of attention and the chances of someone killing you during the attempt are pretty great.

    If I'm by myself without a means to destroy the rally (grenades, SLAMs, etc), I'll spot it as a boat and use my discretion on engaging anyone who spawns there. If it's an easy back-shot, I'll take it. Otherwise it's safer to wait for reinforcements and keep it spotted. I think this is an intelligent maneuver and is obviously one of those "on the fence" types of issues.

    Your thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

    Agreed. Trying to take down a rally point by yourself with only small arms fire is an almost garaunteed death. The only exception I could see would be with the use of the support kit as it wouldn't take that long to unload a quick 50 rounds into the rally point, but you would still draw unneeded attention to your location.

    The best thing to do is to inform the squad of your discovery and get some reinforcements to the location before proceeding.

    Good point! Good post!
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    • #3
      Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

      Using small arms to destroy an RP is definitely a job for a full squad, but if you have that many guys you'd hope someone had explosives.
      BFCL TF2 league admin

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      • #4
        Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

        A support kit can definitely take out an RP easily. I watched once as a MEC soldier shot me in the back, noticed my kit, grabbed it and emptied a bunch of rounds from my SAW into the RP...it was quickly destroyed. He was also right on top of it, so 100% of the rounds were hitting the rally point. We were chatting on VoIP at the time, since he'd wiped out us out (he got us from behind), and I don't think any of us realized that it was possible to destroy RPs with small arms fire before...we learned a valuable lesson.

        -=Эл Кейси=-
        За Родину!

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        • #5
          Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

          Good post! Spawn camping requires intent - self defense is something different - the gentlemen's agreement should probably have an "if safe to do so" caveat to it....

          Although, if you're by yourself and are trying not to die, then you probably shouldn't hanging around too close to an enemy RP in the first place... but it is war and **** happens :D



          Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
          Trying to take down a rally point by yourself with only small arms fire is an almost garaunteed death...
          Originally posted by Root View Post
          Using small arms to destroy an RP is definitely a job for a full squad...
          Wow, really? I've never had such difficulty with one. It only takes around 50 rounds to destroy one... I mean situations change, and some RP's are hotter than others, but how long does it take to empty two magazines? If you've got even just one buddy w/ you (which you usually do/should), it shouldn't take more than 5-10 seconds to have the thing down... Especially if you've got a full-auto weapon (M4, AK, G3, etc).


          Anyway - yeah, good post.

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          • #6
            Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

            Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
            Good post! Spawn camping requires intent - self defense is something different - the gentlemen's agreement should probably have an "if safe to do so" caveat to it....

            I mean situations change, and some RP's are hotter than others, but how long does it take to empty two magazines? If you've got even just one buddy w/ you (which you usually do/should), it shouldn't take more than 5-10 seconds to have the thing down... Especially if you've got a full-auto weapon (M4, AK, G3, etc).
            OK, I was gonna defer to the veterans on this one, but WhiskeySix, you have the same idea as I did. I was thinking, "Hmmm, how long can it take to rip off two magazines?" but if the consensus is to wait for backup, then I'll wait for backup.

            Although, admittedly, I'm almost never the last to die in my squad. Usually more like first! :p

            -=Эл Кейси=-
            За Родину!

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            • #7
              Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

              Do as you see fit... remember the gentlemen's agreement isn't a server rule. It just means you wont have your squad camp a RP with the intent of harvesting kills from disoriented spawners.

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              • #8
                Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

                Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
                Wow, really? I've never had such difficulty with one. It only takes around 50 rounds to destroy one... I mean situations change, and some RP's are hotter than others, but how long does it take to empty two magazines? If you've got even just one buddy w/ you (which you usually do/should), it shouldn't take more than 5-10 seconds to have the thing down... Especially if you've got a full-auto weapon (M4, AK, G3, etc).


                Anyway - yeah, good post.
                You're right, its not so difficult to empty two clips into a rally point. I only suggest not doing it alone because once that RP is down the squad who it belonged to is going to have a pretty good idea on your location. And also, yesterday I tried taking down an RP by myself and got whacked by someone spawning in before I could finish the job. I was a medic, so I had no frags. The lesson for me was to make sure you don't move in until you've got someone watching your back. But ultimately, as you say, situations change and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. :D
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                • #9
                  Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

                  Whenever you take down an RP alone using small arms, you run the risk of having someone spawn behind you while you're staring at bags of sand and reloading. Even so, I try to destroy them as quickly as possible since over time, chances are someones going to spawn in such a way that they'll get the drop on you. Usually I take a kit off of the first guy to come out, use his frags, and be done with it. (I rarely play SF, so I don't have slams)

                  That said, I don't think theres anything wrong with 'spawn camping' an RP. RP placement is at the SLs discretion, and theres absolutely no 'right' for an enemy to spawn there. If an RP is being camped the SL needs to announce it to his squad and tell them to spawn at a back flag until it is relocated. It's not 'cheap' to kill enemies that want to spawn forward despite being in an insecure location. If they insist on spawning in a hot zone, that is their stubborn decision.

                  To frame this differently, if you're a lone soldier with a scope, why should you risk yourself when you can stand back and destroy the spawnies. Boat it for your team to see, but don't feel like you must go destroy it yourself.
                  |TG|Switch

                  Better known as:
                  That noob who crashed the chopper.
                  That noob who ran over the mine.
                  That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                  That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

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                  • #10
                    Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

                    And why don't you have a buddy on your back? What, you lone-wolfing it or something? Hah!
                    |TG-6th|Belhade
                    "I am actually looking forward to watching Jon and Kate plus 8." - Dirtboy




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                    • #11
                      Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

                      Originally posted by Belhade View Post
                      And why don't you have a buddy on your back? What, you lone-wolfing it or something? Hah!
                      Ooooh you got me! Nah, I had gotten seperated from my squad and ended up the last man standing. In the process I came upon an enemy rp by chance and knew there was no chance of reinforcement so I tried to take it down. I should have just hid somewhere. :(
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                      • #12
                        Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

                        Yesterday i was in the attack little bird with sloppy joe on mao valley. We spotted a RP but he couldn't hit it with the chopper guns because the RP was to well covered.

                        He just killed one last guy, dropped me off, and I used the shotgun on the RP, went down in seconds.




                        In the end though you cannot spawncamp a RP imo. The spawner always has a choice when he spawns on a RP (unlike mainbase spawncamping). So I say If you spawn on a discovered rallypoint, you were asking for it.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

                          How many shotty rounds did it take? Does a single cartridge act as so many bullets from a regular assault rifle?
                          |TG-6th|Belhade
                          "I am actually looking forward to watching Jon and Kate plus 8." - Dirtboy




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                          • #14
                            Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

                            Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
                            Wow, really? I've never had such difficulty with one. It only takes around 50 rounds to destroy one... I mean situations change, and some RP's are hotter than others, but how long does it take to empty two magazines?
                            Empty them, or empty them on target? The former I can do for you in a hurry, the latter takes some pretty hardcore aiming and stuff. This is why I love TG - they let lifetime noobs play here. :)
                            BFCL TF2 league admin

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                            • #15
                              Re: Smalls arms fire and rally points

                              Originally posted by Belhade View Post
                              How many shotty rounds did it take? Does a single cartridge act as so many bullets from a regular assault rifle?
                              I think that the RPs take damage just like wood fences that you can destroy by shooting at them, you could probably destroy a RP with a few sniper shots from a distance or a few shotgun shots at close range. (Instead of wasting 50 rifle rounds)

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