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Maps chasing away the quality players.

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  • Maps chasing away the quality players.

    I don't think anyone will argue with me when I say there are some lack luster maps in this game. I love PR and it is quickly replacing all my FPS needs, but nothing kills my good time more than maps that frankly are not very well tested.

    Al Basrah is bar none the most complained about map in the game. Really, it has everything it needs for greatness, tanks, an A-10, helios and a massive number of enemies for the USMC to claw their way through. If only it worked out that way.

    This map simply has to many ticket to be viable. No game I have ever played on it has been quicker than 2 hours. Thats a painful amount of time. With no bleed out, it takes 800 kills to finish of the insurgents. Thats 26 deaths per person on a 31 man team, which means by the end some players will be suffering a 50 second respawn time!!!!!! Thats just lowers the enjoyment of the game and slows down the pace even further. It is to large to mount an attack without a super commander and team, which frankly isn't always on hand at the time.

    The last few times players have raised complaints, asking for a map change, they(along with myself) have been told to move to another server if we didn't like the map. Sadly today people listened and what replaced them simply made it worse.

    I will now cite some of the events that inspired me to post this.

    - Noobs driving the Blackhawks aimlessly around the airport
    - Noobs hovering the Blackhawks over the Cobras to make it impossible to take off.
    - raids on the airport with sniper rifles.
    - mindless spawncar charges to get the map over quicker

    The next round was filled with even more enjoyment

    - new players camping the pilot kits so no one could fly
    - base attacking until a admin was summoned..........3 times
    - moronic teams that offed a classic BF2 spamfest with mindless wasting of APCs and tanks

    Finally an Admin(I forgot his name, but bless his soul) stayed on to clean out the server. All and all the server was horrible for about 2-3 hours.

    I know some TG players love Al Basrah, and I respect that. I have had a good time on that map before. But when exposed to a normal night of play, it degrades boredom and madness. The worst part about it is that the more people lose heart in the map, the longer it takes.

    In the end, there are a few game-killer maps in this game. Though fun every once and a while, they mostly degrade into a dragged out affairs. The last time Al Basrah came up, my buddy Snoopy and I said "Well thats the que, lets get Subway."
    I kill terrorist.
    I do good.
    I have top score.
    I a Dutch.

    -AKA- Snow411

  • #2
    Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

    I agree, there are quite a few maps that make me press Disconnect.

    Ill list some of them and why:

    Airport - too small, no options to flank, too limited scope, very repetitive, plays out same way each time, overall, not interesting with more than 20 players.

    Al Fallujah - Too many reasons to list, so Ill list the top 5: Most unrealistic terrain in PR, repetitive gameplay, No room for flanking, Sandstorm effect is only client side so not all players are synced. I will not play this map when it comes up in rotation. Above all: Does not feel like a real place on planet earth, more like Mars.

    Greasy Mullet - vehicle placements is too numerous and random, does not help organised play. Whole map design feels too disorganised, the 2 airfields within 2 km is really upsetting, especially the USMC airfield right next to the side of a mountain??

    Mao Valley - unrealistic terrain, usually boils down to deathmatch, drags on way too long, nade spammers paradise.

    Muttrah City - Too small, will be removed soon hopefully and replaced with something MUCH MUCH MUCH better. I will not play this map when it comes up in rotation.

    Operation Pheonix - Too small, Too random building placement, unbalanced, too small ;)

    Operation Compton - Too laggy with the undergrowth.


    • #3
      Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

      We've been slowly making tweaks to various maps to make them more playable. Some changes have made the maps very enjoyable. There are still areas for improvement. Point out the problem areas with the map and we may be able to address them.
      |TG-12th| asch


      • #4
        Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

        If you have identified these maps as trouble maps as lead tester, what is being done to change these maps so that they will be more acceptable for future play?

        Lucky Shot


        • #5
          Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

          Originally posted by Plan6 View Post
          I know some TG players love Al Basrah, and I respect that. I have had a good time on that map before. But when exposed to a normal night of play, it degrades boredom and madness.
          I'm one of the "Basrah Lovers" you speak of!

          I think the biggest problem the US faces is that they try to use all vehicles/aircraft and don't get enough infantry support.

          Four APCs = 8 Crewmen
          Two tanks = 4 Crewman + 2 engineers (if done right!)
          Two attack helos = 4 pilots
          Two A10s = 2 pilots
          One Blackhawk = 1 pilot
          One CO

          In that situation, that means 22 people out of 31 are not fighting as infantry at any given time. Nine people can't cap Facility, so it ends up being a drawn out battle for that CP.

          Honestly, you have to leave some of the vehicles unused to win the map. I've seen the USMC win in about 20 minutes when they use infantry, armor and speed to their advantage.

          USMC need to make it to Mosque and cap it to initiate bleed, which isn't so difficult when you're using the right combination of weaponry. An armor patrol that seeks and destroys spawn cars is crucial and highly effective.

          Though I admit getting that coordination on a random night is certainly no small task.


          • #6
            Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

            I was on the server last night and a lot of players where complaining.

            I dont like the map as well. Its to big and to boring as defense. The only interesting bit is when the US comes in with a squad. Than you kill them off ( because you almost outnumber them ) and you lose.

            I also dont like airport for the reasons stated here.

            If muttrah city is the one with the littlebirds attacking the city, than please dont remove that one ;) I love it :P I know its really unbalanced but the way it plays is just cool.

            The rest of the PR maps are pretty good I think ( havent played them ALL but I seen a bunch )


            • #7
              Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

              Just a polite *cough* on my part and what I have seen also. Even when some coordination is achieved and facility gets taken over quickly EVERYONE immediately heads for the mosque, gets about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the way there and then the flag falls at facility. Almost no one turns to get it right back or even though if a squad or two were left it never would have gone down in the first place.

              That is IMHO the main reason any of the maps turn into a two flag battle. Running back and forth for the same flags over and over. Whenever I am SL I will lead or leave my squad at a just taken flag. Most of the time we get severely molested by the bulk of the opposing team before the next link in the chain can be taken (by the squad that has been sitting at it since the start of the map). It still boils down to a lack of coordinated teamwork that kills the map, most of the time, not the shortcomings of any map. Could some things be switched up (not that I would have the first inkling on how), sure, but the maps should be winnable by either side with a team effort and learning to hold a position once it is taken as opposed to runnin off willy nilly to the next flag. Or seeing any given squad sitting on a flag which is still 2 steps out.
              Don't let the bastards grind you down!


              • #8
                Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

                the fact of the matter is that the game has excellent Urban gameplay, and Al Basrah is by far the best urban map in the mod. Muttrah has potential for greatness but isn't quite there. Operation phoenix is solid, but never really gets past the suburb or the train. I totally agree with the commadner comment tho, not having a commander ont hat map is totally annoying, but that is often times the case when trying to mount a co-ordinated attack. Al Basrah ftmfw


                • #9
                  Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

                  the guy working basrah said on the pr boards that he's making tweaks. some that i can remember include fewer spawn cars with larger capacities, longer a-10 respawn, maybe a single a-10, and some helo number changes.


                  • #10
                    Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

                    Sunset city last night was absolutely ridiculous. I was commanding, and between the PLA APC that sat behind the LB chopper spawn at the UCB killing everyone, the snipers killing me at the UCB while I was in commander screen, and the squad leader of the full squad who, despite repeated requests over voip to change kit or leave and rejoin the squad, never left a pilot kit for the round - and when he first changed, there was already a speciality LB squad up, who disbanded it in disgust after getting the LB became a case of just spamming E.

                    I guess the most annoying thing is that I don't think anything actually happened to him in terms of being w/k/bed, despite admins knowing about it.


                    • #11
                      Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

                      Last night on Al Basrah (devfile) was great. The US was communicating well, Cobras would escort and cover tanks/squads going into the cities and clear the roofs. Infantry would go and clear out the insurgents before the armor would go in. We ended up winning with 40 tickets and mosque/industry taken


                      • #12
                        Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

                        Last night we played al basrah 8 on 8 for about 4 hours... lol. I was considering a real life jihad attack on my router. -- that said, it was the most coordinated game i've played on that map, i had a die hard squad we broke into fire teams and fought and defended simultaneous flags and eventually pushed it back to 2 flags left for insurgs --- at which point Allah smiled and the map was changed.

                        Better known as:
                        That noob who crashed the chopper.
                        That noob who ran over the mine.
                        That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                        That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...


                        • #13
                          Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

                          I think basra lasts a bit too long. Devs say they are going to make games much longer, so we'll just have to see where that goes.


                          • #14
                            Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

                            Al Basrah without a decent commander and at least 2 full infantry squads = stalemate


                            • #15
                              Re: Maps chasing away the quality players.

                              Look at the Basarah complaint, in general they are from players who play as USMC because they want the vehicles. The insurgent side is more fun. You get to use tactics you don't normally use. They even start with more tanks(that don't respawn and can't be rearmed-my only gripe) and when used effectively can dominate a map, see last Sunday password night.

                              I do agree the rounds are a bit long, it really is one of the best maps. If you shortened the rounds it would probably be more popular, except for the hardcore USMC freaks who don't like it when they don't dominate the map.

                              My tank > A10.

                              Also I think Mao Valley is one of the best maps as far as terrain goes. It is very interesting to have to be extra sure when identifying friend or foe.
                              Last edited by tHa_KhAn; 04-03-2007, 10:39 AM.
                              |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                              XBL GT: Khan58




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