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Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

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  • Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

    Greetings All TG Players.

    Were currently auditing all PR maps and these two maps came up. We are removing alot of older, less quality maps from PR to make way for far better designed and realistic maps. These new maps have very large view distances and things like destroyable buildings, realistic urban/rural layouts and new game modes.

    Personally, I think Inishail & Phoenix are sub-par maps in these aspects: Gameplay (very limited scope), Realistic layout, Overall layout.

    However we have decided to keep them as token of good faith to TG community and a 'thank you' for helping bring your teamplayers to PR.

    Now heres the questions. Id like everyone to voice their own opinion on them:

    - Do you think Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix play well currently in PR v0.5?

    - Do you want Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix to stay for PR v0.6?

    - Do you want to see map changes to either map? If so, list your changes.

    Inishail Forest:

    Operation Phoenix:
    Last edited by fuzzhead; 04-17-2007, 07:24 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

    I will post my response as an example and also as my opinion.

    - Do you think Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix play well currently in PR v0.5?
    Inishail Forest: No, I think does not play well with more than 20 players
    Operation Phoenix: No I dont think it plays well.

    - Do you want Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix to stay for PR v0.6?
    Inishail Forest: Possibly, but it needs work.
    Operation Phoenix: No.

    - Do you want to see map changes to either map? If so, list your changes.

    Inishail Forest: Remove smaller versions of the map, Remove lots of CPs so they are not so close, reduce amount of jeeps, remove any TOW launchers.

    Operation Phoenix: Replace wheat fields with fields that actually draw at distance, remove some CPs, rework the vehicles.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

      - Do you think Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix play well currently in PR v0.5?
      Inishail Forest: Average.
      Operation Phoenix: Definitely not.

      - Do you want Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix to stay for PR v0.6?
      Inishail Forest: Yeah. Would like to see more infantry-only maps, or at least keeping most of the ones we have now.
      Operation Phoenix: No.

      - Do you want to see map changes to either map? If so, list your changes.

      Inishail Forest: Remove TOW launchers, open up terrain, remove that wall running east to west in the center of the map - creates stalematey, WWI-esque fights

      Operation Phoenix: Make the approach to train not look and play like 300

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

        Poor Kilrogg. Those are both of his maps. I know these weren't designed for the gameplay of PR, so I would hope he doesn't take it too hard when these aren't included in the next release. Both of these were loads of fun to play with 20-30 people back in vanilla and even in our own little in house mod Tacmod.

        But you're right, they just don't work at all in PR. The maps need to be of a larger scale. I disagree with one thing you mentioned though: Visual Quality. Granted, I'm no designer, mapmaker or artist, but if I recall correctly Inishail Forest was the first map Kilrogg ever created, and then he made Phoenix some time after that. I think they both look tremendous.

        And just for some nostalgia for the TG'ers, Inishail Forest was host to probably one of the most epic scrims I've been apart of here. Here's the AAR in case anyone wants to peruse through it.

        http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...im-7-17-a.html

        So in conclusion, I still love both of those maps, but I don't love them with PR.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

          I don't mind and I even agree that they don't play well in PR, but as jmaker said, they were never designed to. They were made to be played in vanilla and emulate a more tactical play style without having an actual mod running.

          But I find ridiculous that you're knocking the maps for visual quality when you consider the other maps in the mod. I don't want to sound like a pompous ass but most of the PR maps I've played are barebones when it comes to visual detail. Unless you're playing this game with everything on Low at which point everything looks like crap :p

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

            @ kilrogg i didnt mean to offend you, they are quality maps to be sure and amazing if they were your first two maps!!! As the mod evolve, so will the map quality... For example, we are removing Muttrah City & Steel Thunder in v0.6, both were staple maps for PR for a very long time, but now do not feel that great in lieu of the new maps. You should give another go at making a new map, Im sure it would be quite amazing!! Would love to see you do a 2KM or 4KM map, you have a great style I think!

            wrt visual quality: yea sorry that was a bad description, they do indeed look good but main problem visually for me is the heavy use of vanilla statics, which i think look tacky. However its all you had to work with when creating these maps and you did a great job with them! Check out the new PR statics, they are looking really great :) hopefully we have a media update soon showcasing these. Kilrogg do you have any other maps? You should consider becoming an R-CON mapper.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

              Good to hear they are staying. I believe they have potential. Particularly as low population maps, and maps that help the new maps designed for PR stay fresh.

              - Do you think Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix play well currently in PR v0.5?

              I. Forest. Yes.
              O. P. Sadly, I have played this once with PR and only a couple of times with the Tac-Mod. I just can't seem to match up with it when I play. It was really fun the one time I did play it in PR. With that sad, I can't really give a yes or no.

              - Do you want Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix to stay for PR v0.6?

              Yes, stay

              Do you want to see map changes to either map? If so, list your changes.

              I. Forest. Deep six the 16 and 32 versions. Have the current 64 map become 16 or 32 player map. Servers should elect to have this as one of their top three maps to show up when the server reboots.
              Keep everything else but expand the out of bounds on the east side. Infantry only.
              Special Note: this would be a nice single player map to play on.

              O. P. Make this either a 16 player map or 32. Again, servers should have this as one of the first few maps to start and seed the server.
              Deep six the amour and make it infantry/boats/
              Greatly expand the out of bounds marker on all four directions (so when the server is maxed out).
              CPs will need to be changed, but I am not sure what we are getting in .6 so do not know what to post.
              Special Note: I have played this once in PR so I really do not know what I am talking about.

              P.S. Yeah, the scrim jmaker wrote about was the last TG vs TG internal scrim on BF2. The rest were against other communities.
              The 12th Division and at the time secretive 5th did a great job at destroying their enemy. The MIPs (Sassy as CO for one round) did their lions share.

              In fact here, is a brief clip of their Generals away from the battlefied getting a report on the results of the battle.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30tyaXv6EI

              P.P.S. Yah!!! M. City is done for in .6!!! Blank you M. City. You go to hell, you go to hell and die.
              Last edited by Rick_the_new_guy; 04-17-2007, 08:35 PM.
              (PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
              (CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
              (LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander

              Squad Member pledge to their SL:
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              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

                - Do you think Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix play well currently in PR v0.5?
                Inishail Forest:
                Decent,but it gets too small. In Pr you need more room to flank somehow. I don't really like fights that are always on the edge of the battlefield.
                Operation Phoenix:
                In the new TG alteration it is decent and quite fair. It is a little too small though. Both are of the most beautiful maps in PR imo. The layout of cps is also done with great attention. If anyone want to attack train through that 3m wide alley,...well they were looking for it.

                - Do you want Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix to stay for PR v0.6?
                Both: maybe for a next release 0.6, depending on the quantity of quality maps in the new release. In the long term they should disappear though. If I can run those big maps on my pc that is :) ... (or :(; to be edited after 0.6 is out).

                - Do you want to see map changes to either map? If so, list your changes.
                Both maps: less flags seems better for pr, develops the battle around cps with more variety.

                Phoenix:
                -Remove train flag to open up that alley a bit
                -Maybe remove construction too
                -Dome of death so no **** can go spawnrape the us in the fields
                -Changing the tall grass at the us spawn would be cool, but maybe
                that takes considerable effort that is better spent on a new map.

                Inishail Forest:
                Add deer to hunt.

                PS How a bout some kind of training map? A training facility with all kinds of vehicles / fractions, shooting ranges, cqb practice area and so on. My clan had this on mohaa and it was really great to practice game mechanics and tactics, and also the perfect map to get together on before a clanmatch or something like that (pw-night maybe). You could have all the vehicles on short spawns. And areas for the tank with targets that you can blow up, same for the chopper etc.

                TG university could make great use of this kind of thing, and I hear that similar initiatives have been taken on the PR forums.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

                  no one else has an opinion about this? kilrogg since you made the maps id love to see what you think should be improved on them :)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Inishail Forest & Operation Pheonix - what to do?

                    - Do you think Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix play well currently in PR v0.5?
                    Inishail - Decent gameplay.
                    Op Phoenix - No

                    - Do you want Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix to stay for PR v0.6?


                    Yes.

                    - Do you want to see map changes to either map? If so, list your changes.

                    Inishail Forest:

                    No changes come to mind - it may just be a better map for <45 people.


                    Operation Phoenix:
                    Drop AAS for this map, and have both MEC and USMC spawn at their main bases to contest central flags, making it a more even (if not symmetrical) map. Think of it as a battle for a vital part of a city, as opposed to a giant Qwai-esque battlefield requiring supply lines and such. This map was great pre-AAS, but is my one of my least favorites with AAS.
                    Beatnik

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Inishail Forest &amp; Operation Pheonix - what to do?

                      - Do you think Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix play well currently in PR v0.5?
                      Inishail - No
                      Op Phoenix - No

                      - Do you want Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix to stay for PR v0.6?


                      No to Inishail, Yes to Phoenix if it's changed.

                      [B]- Do you want to see map changes to either map? If so, list your changes.

                      Operation Phoenix:

                      Currently, the US tend to get pinned down on the rail track, with nowhere to flank. If they could get up into the hills to the east, and had more room to move to the west, they could probably take the flag easier. Possibly adding a second APC would help too.

                      Originally posted by fuzzhead
                      For example, we are removing Muttrah City & Steel Thunder in v0.6
                      That's disappointing. Steel thunder plays out pretty well, and Muttrah just needs some editing.
                      BFCL TF2 league admin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Inishail Forest &amp; Operation Pheonix - what to do?

                        Originally posted by fuzzhead View Post
                        no one else has an opinion about this? kilrogg since you made the maps id love to see what you think should be improved on them :)
                        I don't play PR enough to tell you what to change :p

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Inishail Forest &amp; Operation Pheonix - what to do?

                          - Do you think Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix play well currently in PR v0.5?
                          Inishail Forest: Yes. This map can be very tight with 50+ players but I think it plays well with less than 50 players.
                          Operation Phoenix: Yes. The US has open terrain entering into tight chokepoints that make it very difficult to play with a large number of players. This map does play well with less than 50 players but it does take heavy coordination for the US. The tweak to the CP groupings that TG has made has had some effect in making it better to play.

                          - Do you want Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix to stay for PR v0.6?
                          Yes. I'm biased towards these maps since they were made by Kilrogg, used in the Tactical Mod, and hosted by TG and used in a few scrims.

                          - Do you want to see map changes to either map? If so, list your changes.

                          Inishail Forest: The 64p version of this map probably has to be made the 32p version. I'd remove the out of bounds territory. I can't remember if the map has UCBs but I would remove them for both teams.

                          Operation Phoenix: The CP groupings can probably be tweaked to spread out the defenders. The US could gain by having artillery. Might help to remove the CP in the center (I forget the name). I'd add armor for the US.
                          |TG-12th| asch
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Inishail Forest &amp; Operation Pheonix - what to do?

                            Thanks, keep the input coming!

                            wrt muttrah & steelthunder: muttrah is getting a complete overhaul as its now prety outdated, trust me when I say that you will LOVE the overhaul. This for v0.7 or later release though, we think Muttrah needs to retire now though as its really not how we want the mod to be played. Steelthunder although good, has alot of performance issues as well as having seaweed for grass hehe the grass covers the entire area but does not draw at range, which is really an immersion and gameplay killer. Nikov (creator of kyongan) will be creating a 4km forest map hopefully for v0.7 which Im certain will completely overshadow steel thunder in both size and map layout. If you have ever noticed kyongan's forests, you know were in for a real treat :)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Inishail Forest &amp; Operation Pheonix - what to do?

                              ahhh understood kilrogg :) do you have the editor files for these maps by any chance? could help in giving them a few facelifts

                              Comment

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