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  • Exploiting kit requests & squad size

    I've noticed a trend recently with the use of specialty kits. Players are joining squads just to request a kit and then leave, or they allow players to join their squad only to request a kit and then kit the other squad members. These players then lock their squads.

    This is exploiting the way the kit requests work based on the developers design of the mod. To request these kits there has to be a certain number of players in that squad.

    Please refrain from doing this and utilize what the mod developers have created. Do not join squads just to request a kit and leave.
    |TG-12th| asch
    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

    Rather than blindly follow the mod creaters' intent, I think we should look at this as an opportunity to customize our server to a style of gameplay that is conducive to us.

    Does allowing a one- or two-man squad to request kits ruin what TG is trying to accomplish? How so? What problems arise in allowing this sort of game play? Under which circumstances is this style of game play beneficial? Is this really a problem that needs to be addressed?

    When making a decision that will affect others in such a way that may make their experience less enjoyable, one must ask themselves 1) why are they considering taking action, 2) what effect this will have on the server population's sense of enjoyment, and 3) what the expected effectiveness of the solution will be and whether it is worth it to take action.

    Disclaimer: I sometimes take the role of the squad-switcher in order to receive kits, sometimes for selfish reasons and other times for teamwork.

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    • #3
      Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

      in v0.6 you must be in a squad for a few minutes before being able to request a kit.

      squad switching is prety lame way to exploit the request system..

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      • #4
        Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

        We haven't blindly followed the devs intent. These are server-side settings that we have decided to leave as is.
        |TG-12th| asch
        sigpic

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        • #5
          Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

          I think it can hurt a team a lot. If someone comes and takes a H-AT kit for example, and wonders off sniping with it, what happens when a squad need it in their set up as an AT based squad?They are going to be better equipped to deal with the threat, but without the kit there is no point! I personally do not like people who swap for kits, i do believe it takes away from both the team and the Teamwork that TG stands for.

          I have read on other threads about wanting the kits run past Co before being distributed, i would have to approve.....to many times in squads i have been in we have needed a kit,only to look in the squad list and see a lone guy in a squad wondering around with what we need!
          Last edited by Jeepo; 05-11-2007, 01:06 AM. Reason: typo

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          • #6
            Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

            The Mods intent and the way we play at TG are not mutually exclusive. The Mods were looking to create a carrot to those who squad up in a mod which truly requires it. TG agrees in the importance of squads hence our Squadless kick. The more people you have in your squad, ultimately the stronger the squad is and the more you get accomplished.

            Multiple 1-2 man squads typically don't get many things accomplished, make it tougher for CO's to coordinate and tend to lead to less effectiveness on the battlefield (Greater chance to lose) which all comes back to fun. If your team is getting it's head crushed in round after round, where's the fun in it?

            Why is action being taken? This is a case of gaming the game which TG doesn't care for. Is it the Mod's intent to allow you to join a squad, request your kit and then leave again? Heck no, actions like this make squads less effective. A parallel example would be bunnyhopping, the game allows you to do it but because of how gamey it is, a rule was made about it.

            I despise small squads on the battlefield with few exceptions (Specialty squads) as small squads just aren't effective. The last paragraph can be asked both ways. What effect does this have on the populations enjoyment when your popping in and out of a squad with no intent to actually help them, instead selfishly grabbing a kit, a spot and blocking a team mate from getting into the squad?

            Lucky Shot

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            • #7
              Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

              I'm not a sniper, but I do see that kit as playing an important role in making PR an interesting game.

              I may have some misunderstandings, but here is how I think things stand at the moment - I believe the 0.5 system limits kit delivery until there are 3 people in a squad. In the PR guide found here: guide.realitymod.com/index.php?title=Class_system#Sniper - you'll see this description of the sniper kit:

              Sniper
              Snipers carry bolt-action rifles, and are intended to operate independently from the rest of the team, in teams of two. Their goal is to hunt high priority targets, which are other snipers and enemy officers. You can identify Officers by their large radiopack. When working in sniper teams, it's always beneficial to have at least one member act as the designated observer. The observer's role is to spot and designate targets for the sniper/shooter, as well as provide a level of security. If you find the sniper class isn't suited for a security role, ask a rifleman or specops to join you. They will be helpful in defending if any enemy scouts come looking for you.

              If the intended use of the sniper kit is to work in two-person squads, but you can only get a sniper kit once your squad has three members, how can you get an 'intended-use' sniper squad up, without jumping into someone else's 2 or more member squad to (try) to get a sniper kit (and then jump back out to start a sniper squad)?

              Of course, the above question is moot if the current restrictions don't work as I've described.

              Abuse is typically pretty obvious and should definitely be dealt with - but how about the above scenario? What to do?

              -Phorcast

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              • #8
                Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

                Snipers can get a kit from a 2 man squad. Everything else is 3, iirc. Except for officers, obviously.

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                • #9
                  Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

                  Originally posted by mingmong View Post
                  Snipers can get a kit from a 2 man squad. Everything else is 3, iirc. Except for officers, obviously.
                  Well, I guess that pretty much settles the exception, thanks :) Squad-hopping-kit-poachers be damned!!!

                  -Phorcast

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

                    I squad hop occasionally when needed, but I'm not sneaky about it. I just say hi guys, my sqd needs X, so im here grabbin a kit, thanks.

                    I don't squad hop to lone wolf, sometimes you just cant get the kit you need if your sqd is short.

                    Also, about large squads. Sometimes you don't want to lead a large squad. Every time I start a squad I fill up. Occasionally I just feel like sneaking around with binocs spotting armor or setting mines. A two man team is just fine. One well placed man can delay an entire squad from advancing. I enjoy working with 1 or 2 other guys, keeping a defense far from the flag so that full squads can get on and cap quickly. In those cases I'm all for short squads. If I have a FULL squad I can't go be sneaky because I'm pulling too many people away from flag duty.
                    |TG|Switch

                    Better known as:
                    That noob who crashed the chopper.
                    That noob who ran over the mine.
                    That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                    That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

                      Originally posted by Switch View Post
                      If I have a FULL squad I can't go be sneaky because I'm pulling too many people away from flag duty.
                      Absolutely wrong. The 6th embodies the antithesis of that statement. Stealth is a major goal of our operations and we frequently conduct them with a full squad. Next time your artillery goes boom, ask if it was a team of Devils that did it. Chances are, there were 6 of us creeping around your UCB, blowing up your artilleryz and then getting out before you get the chance to even come look for us.

                      Stealth has nothing to do with unit size. It's about situational awareness, tactical movement, utilization of cover, and several other factors. I could lead 15 people behind enemy lines without being noticed so long as they follow orders and have a good head on their shoulders.

                      Try telling a team of SEALs, a Ranger unit, or a Force Recon squad that 6 men is too much for stealth operations and see if they dont laugh right out of their boots.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

                        His point wasn't that it's too hard to do with 6 people, but that 3-4 of those 6 would be put to better use being in a conventional squad. It's one that I have to agree with.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

                          Originally posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
                          Absolutely wrong. The 6th embodies the antithesis of that statement. Stealth is a major goal of our operations and we frequently conduct them with a full squad. Next time your artillery goes boom, ask if it was a team of Devils that did it. Chances are, there were 6 of us creeping around your UCB, blowing up your artilleryz and then getting out before you get the chance to even come look for us.

                          Try telling a team of SEALs, a Ranger unit, or a Force Recon squad that 6 men is too much for stealth operations and see if they dont laugh right out of their boots.
                          A SEAL team, Ranger unit, or a Force recon squad performing those types of missions in a combat zone wouldn't be overmanned with a 6 man squad in a theater of 35000 troops, now how about 6 out of 31?

                          Moving 6 people back to blow up artillery is a huge waste of asset's IN THIS PARTICULAR GAME, period.

                          And by the way, this comes from someone who play's CO quite a bit. I'll trade my arty ANYDAY to gain a numerical advantage at the point(s) of contact. I can repair the arty, but no guarantees the flag get's retaken.

                          :)

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                          • #14
                            Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

                            Lots of great points in this thread!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Exploiting kit requests & squad size

                              Originally posted by Ferris Bueller View Post
                              Absolutely wrong. The 6th embodies the antithesis of that statement. Stealth is a major goal of our operations and we frequently conduct them with a full squad. Next time your artillery goes boom, ask if it was a team of Devils that did it. Chances are, there were 6 of us creeping around your UCB, blowing up your artilleryz and then getting out before you get the chance to even come look for us.

                              Stealth has nothing to do with unit size. It's about situational awareness, tactical movement, utilization of cover, and several other factors. I could lead 15 people behind enemy lines without being noticed so long as they follow orders and have a good head on their shoulders.

                              Try telling a team of SEALs, a Ranger unit, or a Force Recon squad that 6 men is too much for stealth operations and see if they dont laugh right out of their boots.
                              Using 6 men to destroy arty is a waste. It can usually be done with 1 man, two at the most. The other 4 would be far more useful on the front where numbers matter in terms of flag cap speed and S&D for enemy rally points.

                              One case where I can't stand squad hoppers taking kits is at the start of the map before the round begins. A map can be won in the first few minutes if people deploy quickly and effectively. Often I assign strict load outs so that at the start my squad can go accomplish an objective, aka destroy the enemy APCs that are heading to their first flag, defend bridge since they always cross quickly, etc etc. Anywho, I often get cooperation from most of my squad, but sometimes ill have everyone take the kits they're assigned but 2 people who always go sniper and then leave. This almost always leaves the squad unable to accomplished the intended objective. So those sniper hogs not only squad hopped for kits, but they effectively stopped my squad from getting 2 actual players to fill the needed kits and take out the objective.

                              Now, if they joined and heard my plans and said sorry, just looking to snipe, then went and started a squad -- that'd be fine. But they always stick around through the orders not saying a word then when the round starts they leave with kits, and I've got a short squad only half equiped.
                              |TG|Switch

                              Better known as:
                              That noob who crashed the chopper.
                              That noob who ran over the mine.
                              That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                              That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

                              Comment

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