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L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

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  • L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

    In my book, L-AT for destroying light vehicles, helos bunkers and RPs.

    If I'm caught in the splash damage caused by a L-AT being fired at any of the above, that's my bad luck for being too close to a nice juicy target for too long.

    However, it would appear that people are using the L-AT as a sniper rifle when engaging infantry well away from any of the above targets which is all too reminicent of the rocket griefers that used to plague vanilla BF2.

    While I can understand a player who has the L-AT equiped might press his LMB by reflex when turning a corner and being faced by an enemy, I'm not impressed by those who make a deliberate choice to use this weapon at close range on city maps.

    Last night's PW session saw a prime example of this on Operation Phoenix where I was attempting to revive 2 of my fellow MECs near the road that runs North/South and sits to the West of Construction. I hadn't done a very good job with the smoke grenade I threw and looked up while moving to my second casualty to see a Marine pop around the corner a short distance away and fire his L-AT which sent all 3 of us MEC types back to the respawn screen.

    In his position, I would have used a grenade or my rifle to achieve the same result..

    What's everybody else think?



  • #2
    Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

    Point blank shots with the L-AT is a bit silly but possible. Long range shots at large masses of troops is more than passable in my book. There really is not such weapon as a L-AT rocket in the real world, just weapons that can destroy light armor. I know that sounds like them same thing, but it means that there is not weapon built for the job of destroying light armor.

    Really they should just give L-AT nades and make it have a min range to arm, therefore getting rid of the point blank tank tactics.
    I kill terrorist.
    I do good.
    I have top score.
    I a Dutch.

    -AKA- Snow411

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

      Base on previous threads, it's probably going to come down to whether or not it's a valid RL tactic. I'd say that depends on situation.

      As well as the targets you mentioned (LB, RP, etc) I'd be quite happy to use it as a defence-breaking tool - IE, using it to clear a room or a defensive position which is causing you problems. But only after said position is determined to be a problem. It wouldn't be my initial tool. But I think that that's a valid RL use of the RPG (which it is essentialy, let's face it, the LAT doesn't do enough damage to tanks to be considered an Anti-Tank weapon...

      Anyone using RPG/LAT should not be running around with it out, so shooting on reflex when rounding a corner should not really be a problem.
      7Shades

      How sweet, thought lifeless, yet with life to lie,
      And, without dying, O how sweet to die!
      - from Thomas Warton's "Ode to Sleep"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

        I don't have a problem with it...though a minimum arming distance should solve the main problem of close up insta-kills.

        As for the reality of it...well I am 100% certain that a SRAW-like weapon was used to take out an insurgent sniper in Iraq. The soldier's name that fired it was Collins or some such...saw it on a discovery/tlc show about the war. Anyway, the rocket they used in the re-enactment looked exactly like the Vanilla bf2 U.S. AT rocket: green body with black, knurled ends (though he was only carrying 1 of them as opposed to 6...lol). Seems his squad was pinned down by a sniper that was hiding in a concrete patio a few stories up in a hotel or some such from their position. They had taken cover behind a brick wall and their light weapons could not penetrate the bad guys cover. Well Collins (or whatever his name was) pulled up his rocket and hit the patio dead on...no more shots were fired and everyone escaped.

        Now this was at least a 50 foot shot (prolly more) so I am not saying there are guys in Iraq walking around with AT rockets up on their shoulders clearing houses with them (like we all have done at one time or another in BF2...at least I have...lol). I just wanted to point out that they are used sometimes to kill a single soldier. Now sniping a soldier out in the open...I dunno. I am just throwing this example out there FWIW. I seriously doubt it would be practical to kill single guys with an expensive rocket. I would much rather load a Bad Guy up with my MP5/M4 and save the rocket for a vehicle or hardened bunker like in the above example.
        submit7

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        • #5
          Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

          I was on PW round last night, and was the victim of LAT and HAT kills at all sorts of ranges, and i got very very angry, as it was being done by a few experienced players who damn well should know better!

          Regardless of your opinions on this matter people, its against the rules, and if it continues something needs to be done because i know for a fact it is driving other, good players away.

          The same goes for attempting to run people over when in a vehicle, and if you didnt know it was against the rules, like someone didnt last night, surely the shouldn't even be on PW night, as you HAVE to read the rules to gain access to the PW?!

          http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...g-heavy-3.html

          Rant over

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

            It'll be interesting to see if and how all this changes when v.06 comes out, that is, All AT kits (including L-AT) will be limited kits (on a seperate but related note it should also limit nade spamming since Grenadier will also be a limited kit).

            Hopefully players will realize that AT is a limited and valuable resource that should not be wasted on sniping.
            LoyalGuard

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            • #7
              Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

              Using an the LAT weapon to clear a bunker, room, rally points, against light vehicles (or heavy if you are suicidal) is perfectly fine imo. If there is a large clump of opposition playing patty cake with a medic or rifleman behind a wall, one round can take out all six...

              But what I have seen as of late is people using the H-AT on non armor maps (and sometimes on armor maps) as a area effect sniper rifle. Picking off soldiers one at a time. It's pretty damn cheesey. Yeah mistakes happen from time to time, no biggy. But when you see the same people doing it over and over..well it starts to get on your nerves. For you repeat offenders kindly read the linked thread in Jeepo's previous post.

              For the lazy ones out there, quoted from Tempus;
              ************************************************** *****
              "Re: Infantry Sniping with heavy AT

              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              The TG Primer dictates that we are to use real-life tactics whenever possible, and to not exploit inconsistencies within the game engine. That means the kit is to be used for its primary purpose. Of course, accidental and one-off events happen, but they should be rare."

              ************************************************** *****

              As for the bumper car driver last night. If the admins review the bfrecorder file and see the 2 instances that i saw..well I hope you geta nice long vacation from the TG server. On one instance the driver of said american dune buggy tried to run down my squad hiding behind a rock. He missed us and drove his jeep right into the river. Someone mentioned he was driving for his life..give me a dang break. We all know what we saw, and we know what the intent was. A second instance when we were holding a wall, a driver of another usmc dune buggy came flying along the wall right for us. I tried to dive out of the way and he STEERED RIGHT AT ME, killing me and running down most of my squad. As we were right at the edge of the water and wall again, I bet he drove his buggy right into the water a second time. If you cant kill us with your gun, grab a tank or apc, dont resort to cheesey infantile tactics.

              Alot of people thought it was funny on the opposite side, making jokes and snide remarks about OUR rules here. If you are a member of this site, acquire the password to play on password night then you damn well better be playing by OUR rules. Those rules are put there for a reason. If you dont like them, find you cannot abide by them, then please, by all means take yourself to another server and play there. Or better yet pay for your own server and make up all your own rules! I reported each and every incident that I saw last night (I think 3 seperate occasions I had to report people). Normally on PW night I rarely have to even hit my Teamspeak button to call an admin, but last night was a rare occurance. I apologize to the admins for the barage of reports they got last night. I know you guys don't get paid, but you sure do deserve it. I know I am very thankful for the policing, governance and rules set forth by TG and all I can do is keep stressing, warning, educating and at worse reporting offenders to the powers that be.

              I am getting tired of debating the same issues over and over when these rules are listed in our primer and SOP's. When playing on password night you are agreeing to those rules, why people are breaking them purposefully is beyond me.


              PS great idea Plan6, I wonder if there is a way to code that kit to only arm at say 25 meters, etc...(I doubt it but it is a novel idea)
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

                H AT against single targets is a no no....however if u r HAT and an enemy gets a bead on you your pretty much dead with a pistol vs a rifle.

                I'm gonna use that rocket every time when in that sort of scrape
                Gerardnm

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                • #9
                  Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

                  But the correct use of a HAT is in an Anti Tank squad, where you are supported with riflemen medic etc, so the chance of you coming up against inf with your pistol should be minimal. Im talking about people who lone wolf and killwhore with the thing at any range, and generally be smacktards on the server. We all know who i mean here.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

                    Yes, but this is a thread about LAT, which people seem to be confusing with HAT.

                    I saw the thread about HAT, and it's a specific kit with an intended purpose, I agree wholeheartedly that it should not be used for anything other than Heavy Armour.

                    I read the Wiki item on RPG's, and it does say later on that depending on the warhead (specifically an HE warhead), that it is usd against "infantry, unarmoured vehicles and fixed positions", and later, even says "when used against personnel, it must be aimed at a soid surface to detonate, popular choices being trees or buildings".

                    I'm not arguing here, I've alrady said that I don't agree with it's use against infantry, but that makes it up to us to realise it's intended purpose. I'm interested to hear an admin's take on this if we haven't had one alrady somewhere else (specific to LAT).
                    7Shades

                    How sweet, thought lifeless, yet with life to lie,
                    And, without dying, O how sweet to die!
                    - from Thomas Warton's "Ode to Sleep"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

                      Originally posted by Jeepo_SAS View Post
                      I was on PW round last night, and was the victim of LAT and HAT kills at all sorts of ranges, and i got very very angry, as it was being done by a few experienced players who damn well should know better!

                      Regardless of your opinions on this matter people, its against the rules, and if it continues something needs to be done because i know for a fact it is driving other, good players away.

                      The same goes for attempting to run people over when in a vehicle, and if you didnt know it was against the rules, like someone didnt last night, surely the shouldn't even be on PW night, as you HAVE to read the rules to gain access to the PW?!

                      http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...g-heavy-3.html

                      Rant over

                      rules are there to be broken, enough said............**** happens and when it does you either roll with it or cry about it, when i have a HAT kit and risk being taken out by a single target, he has a rifle i have an AT kit hes 50 meters off or so and i've been hit a time or two, you had better believe im going to make it his life and not mine. in Iraq AT finds all sorts of uses. not just Anti Tank, though that is what it was designed for a DU anti tank shell does well enough verse infantry the fact it is being limited will prevent everyone from using it, wich may be why there is this rule........ but once the kit is limited i think the kit should be used at the persons will, and it should be the SL's job to tell him to cut the **** sniping and save ammo for vehicles

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

                        Rocket abuse, which can be classified as using an AT rocket as a primary infantry weapon, is certainly grounds for warning or 'dismissal,' but admins cannot act without names and details. This requires community support. As frustrating as it is, we first need to try and educate people about it - SL's, CO's and even squadmates should speak up and correct bad tactics. Only once the rules have been stated and ignored can we begin dismissing players.

                        If you are a victim, please use TS to contact an admin in-game or PM an admin. If you cannot get the offending players name, at least be able to provide details.

                        If you observe abuse, please use TS to contact an admin in-game and provide a name.

                        I believe we have pretty good evening coverage on the PR server now. As you are all aware, without kill messages getting names is difficult. Admins rely on community awareness, so please speak up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

                          This server is what it is BECAUSE of the rule set and the people who wont just "when in Rome do as the Roman's do". This server is as popular as it is because it is a safe haven, if you will, from the smacktardery that goes on in other servers. Quality games played by quality people. Rules werent meant to be broken, they were put there to be followed and adhered too.

                          Sure single incidents happen, no cry no foul. But when that certain incident becomes a trend/habit, then that is a problem.

                          Very simple; read the rules, SOP and primer and follow it.

                          Evidently this is easier said than done...
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

                            I totally understand about the using the heavy AT as a sniper rifle. When I run a heavy AT squad, I tell my players that that is a big no no.

                            Sadly the H-AT kit is armed with only a 9mm and stands no chance against any other kit in a one on one gun fight. Some times the people supporting the kit get killed, or he is forced to run it solo while hunting down a tank. If he gets jumped by an enemy then he has 2 choices, die or shoot him with one of the 2 H-AT rounds.

                            Now I would vote for the first option if the enemy couldnt steal the kit, there for preventing the team from getting a new one. This forces the squad to resort to L-AT to down a tank, which is questionable at best. On some maps there is only one H-AT kit. So in an effort to keep the kit for your own team, you might have to shoot an infantry man in the face with a rocket.

                            As for the bumper car problem from last night, I was one of the chief defenders of that player. If he did actively try to run players over, than I am a bit grumpy about that. Running people over who get in your way is one thing, any one who drives a truck in Iraq(my brother for one) will tell you that running over people who get in your way is perfectly passable. They will not try and steer toward them though. I will talk to the player in question and inform him that I expect him to behave better if Im going to be sticking up for him. He's also a young guy, so cutting him some slack to change his behavior isn't out of order.
                            I kill terrorist.
                            I do good.
                            I have top score.
                            I a Dutch.

                            -AKA- Snow411

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: L-AT as sniper rifle, fair dos or gamey?

                              This is a good discussion that brings up many interesting dilemmas. With H-AT, it is clear that it should be used for Armor, while L-AT could have different functions.

                              Whenever a deep debate comes up like this in PR, I like to remind everyone that THIS IS A .5 BETA RELEASE OF THE MOD. It is not a finished release, it is not balanced, not everything is functioning as it should/will, and some trust and faith must be placed in the developers to do the right thing by the time a 1.0 version comes out.

                              Since this is a 'reality' mod, I expect that they will, at some point, make AT ineffective against infantry, assuming that they feel that is more 'real'. Until that time, we work hard to make rulesets that are understandable and enforcable. Even in this thread, there are people who have feelings on both sides of the issue, so it is evident that this is not an easy issue to deal with.

                              3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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