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  • HUD & Mini-map

    I have a problem with this "reality mod" being realistic when there is an exploitable mini map in the top right corner of everyone's screen. I see a lot of players spamming their enemy spotted feature just to get that blinking red dot to appear on their HUD to find the enemy. I feel like I am playing Terminator most of the time, chasing a blinking red dot through the jungle that I can't even see with my own eyes.

    I'm sure it is necessary to have some element of a HUD in the game, but I see it becomming more and more the practice to HUD-spam enemies, flooding team chat with much unneccessary "enemy spotted", and giving away the enemy's hidden position even when the spammer never saw them to begin with.

    Would it be possible to change the HUD to work more like a hand-held PDA that players must pull up by hitting a preset key. This would force players to choose from looking down at a hand held device (a map that takes up a full screen), and looking in game for an enemy. Rather than "spot" enemy targets, we could let players click on this map and show their squad the area they think has the enemy. Make players use in game comm's more, such as "enemy spotted>east". Remove the map from the upper right and force players to hit "M" and look at their map, simulating a player actually pausing to read a map, and increasing the demand for players to "know" the maps they are playing. And if we really wanted to get fancy, we could have a commander UAV asset that, when airborne, SL's could communicate with to get an overhead view of the battlefield just like the commander's satelite view. The other idea, somewhat related...it would be nice for SL's to be able to mark a map with numbers 1-6 to assign where they want individual squad members to station, or a letter E to designate where they think an enemy is positioned...but that is getting a little advanced.

    The point is, the possibilities are endless, and while probably limited by the game engine, there are a few basic concepts currently in the game that are anything but realistic.
    |TG-X|WAREHOUSE

  • #2
    Re: HUD & Mini-map

    It may be unrealistic, but so is the lack of situational awareness, which this attempts to compensate for.
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
    I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
    Feel free to quote me. ~

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    • #3
      Re: HUD & Mini-map

      I agree on all points. But bear in mind we have the tech to show each friendly soldier on a map in real time. It will probably be only 10 or 15 before we are using it in the field.
      Primary: IntelAgent (Planetside 2)
      Light Assault, Reconnaissance, Intel Collection

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      • #4
        Re: HUD & Mini-map

        There are some massive threads on this very issue in the PR forums, namely:

        Should Project Reality remove the minimap?

        Remove the mini map in 0.6?

        In the second one fuzzhead, a frequent visitor here at TG, makes an epic post (#28) about why it should be removed.

        I am in general agreeance with its removal but I also have some situational awareness reservations like ednos mentions. Right now, the only thing I really use the minimap for is keeping track of my fireteam/squadmates. It is usually zoomed-in all the way. For me, this simulates me being able to look out of the corner of my eye or quick glance over my shoulder to make sure everyone is position. For overall battle information I use the "M" map or more frequently the squad screen.

        Whether it is removed or not, I think a (first) good step would be at least get rid of the red dots on the minimap. I am not really into FH2, but they have made some changes in their mod to do exactly that

        From the FH2 website:
        Spotting

        The spotting system has been overhauled. Grunts yell out loud. They do not communicate their discovery of enemies to their team via radio, nor is a red marker placed on the unit. Fireteam leaders do communicate spots using the radio. Markers are placed on enemy units using the binoculars.

        This provides increased atmosphere in two ways: much less radio spam, and soldiers close-by yelling to communicate.
        *By fireteam leader, I believe they mean Squad Leader (term change for FH2).

        I would love to see this implemented in PR. In all cases, it is is removed, a compass of some sort would need to be implemented.
        Last edited by loyalguard; 06-06-2007, 12:58 PM. Reason: typos
        LoyalGuard

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        • #5
          Re: HUD & Mini-map

          ^^ sounds like a good compromise maybe but I dont think the minimap needs removing particularly.

          Ideally the graphics would be photo realistic and we'd see and hear the swaying of underbrush to alert us.
          You have to weigh the unrealistic parts of this engine against any desire to make it too harshly true to life


          If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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          • #6
            Re: HUD & Mini-map

            I would see it as a bad thing if the minimap was removed. Partly because of the way most of the terrain in some maps are (steel thunder, al burj, etc) and the fact that squad cohesion is a bit of a crap shoot without something like that (theres no squad-squad communication save for the commander, and i've noticed he's absent on most of the maps i've played, even on the TG server.) I don't understand at all the arguments about "it obscures my vision" because it takes up a very small piece of realestate even at my low 1024x768 resolution.

            TKing would be a real problem. As it is, a LOT of my deaths are from standing around and waiting for a FoF tag to pop up (Sometimes it takes more than 3 seconds) during which if he's an enemy, even while i'm kneeling or lying down in high grass, will kill me, and at a distance of perhaps 20 meters doesn't seem to work for me at all, especially while gunning a vehicle. This is especially troublesome on USMC vs insurgent maps where some uniforms look very much alike. IF the minimap, spotting, etc is removed (spotting was also discussed in the second thread you linked to) it's going to devolve more into a shoot first, ask questions later type of game.

            They talk a lot about reality, communication, etc, but the problem is, it's still a game. A lot of the games mentioned that were "proof it wasn't needed" had several problems. Some were just plain crap (sum of all fears? hey, i have a BF knockoff on my desk i bought for 5 bucks called Shadow Ops, can it compare too?) limited lives and very short rounds, and/or were built without such a minimap in mind, and had better/different communication options. For example, they frequently cited red orchestra. Red orchestra had no minimap, it's true, but it also didn't have a good FoF identification system. It also had a team VOIP and a "local" fading VOIP which BF doesn't have, that let people communicate within earshot (and the enemy to hear you too)

            So you could spot an advancing tank, and instead of using the quickchat keys you could tell TankSnipa4lif 10 feet away from you in hiding position with the PTRD exactly where it was in voip, even if he wasn't on your team.

            If they want reality, why don't they remove defibs, and medics altogether? RO didn't have any medics, and you could never get better if injured. Rifles were typically a one-shot kill unless they hit you in an extremity. Heck, all it did was tell you a general area you were shot in and if your legs were broke, etc. The same thing happens in WW2 online which is even more simmish despite the aging engine. No medics, no healing (unless you drag your corpse back to a base probably 4 miles away to redeploy, then you're counted as still in action) and the more you got hurt/the more worse off you were over time, the more the screen would fade out as you were blacking out. You culd even go blind and be forced to sit there or suicide.

            <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
            <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
            DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

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            • #7
              Re: HUD &amp; Mini-map

              if it obscures vision you can make it 100% transparent anyway =)

              I think it's fine as a metaphor for both proper communication team wide and as mentioned spacial awareness. If they could make it so the dots just stay where they are and don't move with the spotted player it would be bette, though.
              "It's nothing to do with Stalker, really"

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              • #8
                Re: HUD &amp; Mini-map

                Originally posted by ChernobylKinsman View Post
                I think it's fine as a metaphor for both proper communication team wide and as mentioned spacial awareness.
                Well said.
                submit7

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                • #9
                  Re: HUD &amp; Mini-map

                  Oh, and the fact you can't just POINT in the direction..
                  "It's nothing to do with Stalker, really"

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                  • #10
                    Re: HUD &amp; Mini-map

                    Originally posted by ChernobylKinsman View Post
                    Oh, and the fact you can't just POINT in the direction..
                    At least until the next version of TrackIR _

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                    • #11
                      Re: HUD &amp; Mini-map

                      Not to argue but, just a question. Say they remove the minimap thus removing the ability to spot anything. Is it really worth it to lose that ability that some people use very effectivly ? ie. spotting tanks, boats, helos, planes... I for one dont "spam" the enemy spotted function, I do however use it quite a bit when I think I see some movement and want to make sure its an enemy first.... imo they should leave it and remove the arbitrary calls like TacMod did... it only radio'd a spotted command if there in fact WAS an enemy there... otherwise it did nothing.
                      Dizlor


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                      • #12
                        Re: HUD &amp; Mini-map

                        I dont find spamming particularly effective. Half the time no question mark appears so you just spam the radio and usually I get a 30 sec ban for trying to spot the squad I can see approaching so I just do it manually


                        If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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                        • #13
                          Re: HUD &amp; Mini-map

                          I like the mini map the way it is. I dont really see spamming the stopped button as "abuse". I do it all the time if there is more than one enemy, to make sure people know a full scale attack it coming. There are many more unrealistic things that need to be removed before this.....

                          -flat ground through dense forest that people can sprint across at full speed. The same with rocky terrain. I lived near a large forest as a child, running through it means spraining your ankle.

                          -Being able to run at full speed and instantly bring up your rifle to fire in half a second without missing. Hell you can go prone too if you like. You can reload 3 seconds before you dive too.

                          - Throwning nades that always fly the same way, every time, no matter what.

                          -Tanks not have alternate vision types or really anything that would make them a tank beyond a huge gun and a short life span.

                          -Switching weapons in under a second.

                          -Scopes that don't need to be focused and you can keep to your eye for hours without getting tired.

                          -That I cant point, or push someone to the ground, or move their head to spot what they should be looking at(look right HERE)

                          All these things and more are the reason for the mini map. People move faster and value their life less in BF. They have super human powers of aiming, diving and weapon switching. Removing the mini map will not change this, but it will make players who want to play a slower, better paced game suffer. Running and gunning will be a better option, because other players will be less aware. The TG was is teamwork and the mini map promotes teamwork, though in a abstract manner.

                          Really, if it was removed I would most like start searching for a new mod to play.
                          I kill terrorist.
                          I do good.
                          I have top score.
                          I a Dutch.

                          -AKA- Snow411

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                          • #14
                            Re: HUD &amp; Mini-map

                            Gameplay vs. Realism.

                            Has to be a balence doods. I'd rather see other things be dumbed down than the GPS.

                            I dont spam the spotted feature. Hell, I use voip more.
                            Skud


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                            • #15
                              Re: HUD &amp; Mini-map

                              Originally posted by Gogeta View Post
                              imo they should leave it and remove the arbitrary calls like TacMod did... it only radio'd a spotted command if there in fact WAS an enemy there... otherwise it did nothing.
                              Maybe the TacMod devs. could run this by the PRM guys and see what they can come up with... Honestly, that was one of my favorite features of TacMod, I didnt have to listen to enemy spotted 5000 times.... only when there actually was someone/something there.
                              Dizlor


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