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Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

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  • Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

    I came in for some pubbing on the TG PR v0.506 server and had some very frustrating experiences.

    The main problem I see is that squads have to stick together, they have to fight whenever enemy are near them, they stop moving and battle it out whatever the cost.

    Before we had a commander I made a squad called "saboteur and got a full squad of people who had the wrong kits, took 5mins of persuading to get a rifleman to supply me as an engineer, an SF guy, LAT and three medics wasn't suitable for the squad title.

    I was unable to blow the enemies targets effectively till about 10 mins in so we didn't get much done, then the party started.

    We skirted the enemy, I told my squad not to fire the instant they saw enemy, but one decided to stand over me firing opportunitist style as i was crawling around out of sight and this fire which attracted noobtubes taking me out every time.

    So, on our second attempt crossing the map successfully (there were about half a dozen failed attempts due to the gonks on my squad in general) we got to where we needed to be but had to get our heads down due to an enemy squad passing us by.

    Then i started to get complaints directed through the commander from the rest of the team that we were lamers and not helping. I explained what I was doing and was told from the commander (who wasn't there when we made our squad and started doing what we were doing,) that he hadn't authorised me to lead a squad doing what i was doing.

    I told him sorry, but the facts above.

    He complained some more so i popped up and led my squad off skirting the enemy to go to the flag he wanted my saboteur squad to assault (???) and i saw a tank. i dropped my mines on the bridge i was passing and jumped off a high wall shouting for my squad to follow, only one of them made it, rest the tank cut down, we knew the tank was there but my commander was being rather insistent I move that instant.

    We headed round the enemy and i got more complaints, apparently I wasn't moving fast enough (and every knows from playing with me that that is patently untrue,my squad struggle to catch up, here i was constantly waiting for my guys to catch up, so i looked like i was stationary far too often) I was told to take a direct line to a refence point, so i said "okay commander, i will go straight along that line" and did, my squad following me.

    that's when that pesky tank behind us sprayed its 50 cal and got all my squad! I told the commander that due to following his orders my entire squad got gunned down by the tank we were trying to avoid," thankyou very much!

    the server went all funny then and i got dropped, i came back in wondering if i'd been kicked but the drop message wasn't that, then the server folded in on itself and crashed.

    I was highly frustrated, I had asked the commander 5 times for arty when i was playing, judging enemy movement to be in the strike zone when the arty finally came. each time it was denied as there were no enemies under where i had requested. After denying me arty, on 4 of the occassions my squad was entirely wiped out. highly frustrating!


    TG server seems to have this policy where the grunts must obey SL's, the SL's must obey Commanders, but what can you do when those commanding you seem to be lacking any comprehension of what is really going on and spacial awareness to realise that sometimes, the SL might just be right!

    I can't even remember the commanders name right now, it was instantly forgettable. I think the reason I had a full squad is because people knew my name and joined thinking they'd get something special on, we only really needed 3 or 4 in the squad admittedly. Although i had trigger happy people I kept telling NOT to opportunist fire to get tasks done, we did manage to get some destruction going although not effective enough due to grunt classes not quite compatible with the squads purpose. The fact that the vast majority didn't know who i was, or the commander is a shame. Guess I should have been wearing my iGi tags or even my [R-PUB] ones, but then that shouldn't really matter.

    This whole situation just seems to show how little map tactics are used by the vast majority of the players. Why so many people think they must fire upon seeing the enemy, even when they are stood over their SL who is crawling around the enemy trying to avoid being seen (and saying so much over voip) is a complete mystery to me. These guys obviously wanted points and prizes, but they don't understand true gameplay which includes delaying enemy armour or knocking it out, silently entering the enemy base and blowing arty, ammo dumps and sabotaging vehicles.

    We all know what can happen if an enemy goes to the wrong spot or hasn't the vehicles to get them somewhere, they lose!

    3 minute culture is terrible, some people have to be retrained obviously because they don't need to be firing their weapons all the time. It is frequently the way you die instantly and it's how you lose most times.

    I prefer to come away from match with a smile on my face, remembering specifc things that went down, rather than an electric buzzing in my ears that comes from vaniilla gameplay. I'm sure there are interesting gaming moments, but people have to drop the vanilla mentality and take up chess as an extr hobby and think about the whole idea of moves and blocking.

  • #2
    Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

    Wow..Nice post.. (and I don't even know what the heck you were playing!!)..
    All I know is come play Armed Assault on TG servers... It may be the breath of fresh air you need....
    |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
    ..now where did I put my keys?

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    • #3
      Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

      Allow me to remind that there are many players playing on TG PR server who know and practice concepts like:

      - fire discipline and rules of engagement
      - chain of command / proper CO-SL communication
      - AAS compatible defensive and offensive strategies and tactics

      I hope you will meet them soon and have a good time.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

        you know what, sometimes u just have to do what u think is right. I know all the rules about listening to the commander,but like u said, if he has no idea of what is going on then screw him! Do u think battles were won by following every single order the commander says. No! dont be a louzy commanders whip b***ch. That is just gonna loose u the map. And the admins have to agree with me on that one. Why go down with the commander? If ur gonna loose, go out in glory, not with shame!
        sigpic


        Do you really want invincible bears running around raping your churches and burning your women?

        Intel i7 3930k @ 4.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 2x GTX 570 1gb, OCZ Vertex 3 120 gig SSD

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

          While it is true that you must follow orders in the CoC on our servers, obviously there are times when, for whatever reason they aren't achievable, inappropriate or just don't make sense to you. Talk to the CO/SL making these orders, give them the pertinent information on the scene and suggest an alternate strategy. Something that might not seem wise to you might be part of someone else's master plan and if so they should be gracious enough to tell you what the overall picture is.

          Above all, whatever option you take, be courteous and respectful (inasmuch as a battleground scenario can allow).
          |TG-6th|Belhade
          "I am actually looking forward to watching Jon and Kate plus 8." - Dirtboy




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          • #6
            Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

            when im running a saboteur squad (which i do from time to time)

            i follow a strict set of things:

            - never allow the squad to have more than 3 people in it, as that is a major waste of resources even on a full 64 man server.
            - if there is a commander on duty, make sure to propose the mission to him before moving out, and be prepared to be denied the mission if your needed somewhere else urgently..
            - if a squad member is not following orders, kick him immediately. it might be harsh, but this is the only way you can keep your squad in check, as things will quickly degrade if even just one squad member is not following orders. this also applies to other squad types as well

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            • #7
              Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

              Originally posted by gijoe View Post
              you know what, sometimes u just have to do what u think is right. I know all the rules about listening to the commander,but like u said, if he has no idea of what is going on then screw him! Do u think battles were won by following every single order the commander says. No! dont be a louzy commanders whip b***ch. That is just gonna loose u the map. And the admins have to agree with me on that one. Why go down with the commander? If ur gonna loose, go out in glory, not with shame!
              No, we don't have to agree with you at all. The rules are there to be followed. If you think the commanders orders don't make sense, then it is up to you to provide him with the information he needs to make better decisions.

              If you choose to break the rules, then don't be surprised when an admin takes action against you.
              Peace through fear... since 1947!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

                I disagree so much icky. Sure, squads should follow orders most of the time, but if they are unable to do something that the commander requested them to do, I wouldn't be mad at all if the squad denied the objective I requested them to do. As long as they explain their status and why they can't do an objective I gave them, I'm fine with them denying my objective.

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                • #9
                  Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

                  Icky was referring to the attitude. You can deny CO orders but you have to explain why you are denying.

                  If you deny CO with that "screw you CO" attitude then you will get the boot. This is TG gentlemen, we dont screw around here. Respect and maturity is the proper attitude.

                  The following is the proper SL-CO communication:

                  Originally posted by Belhade View Post
                  While it is true that you must follow orders in the CoC on our servers, obviously there are times when, for whatever reason they aren't achievable, inappropriate or just don't make sense to you. Talk to the CO/SL making these orders, give them the pertinent information on the scene and suggest an alternate strategy. Something that might not seem wise to you might be part of someone else's master plan and if so they should be gracious enough to tell you what the overall picture is.

                  Above all, whatever option you take, be courteous and respectful (inasmuch as a battleground scenario can allow).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

                    EBODude, the question isn't whether or not you're strategically correct. The question is whether or not you're following orders as you are ordered to do by the rules.
                    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
                    I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
                    Feel free to quote me. ~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

                      Originally posted by EBODude View Post
                      I disagree so much icky. Sure, squads should follow orders most of the time, but if they are unable to do something that the commander requested them to do, I wouldn't be mad at all if the squad denied the objective I requested them to do. As long as they explain their status and why they can't do an objective I gave them, I'm fine with them denying my objective.
                      If you are the CO and you are FINE with them denying your order, then you are really adjusting your order, aren't you?

                      I agree completely with what you said above, so I don't think you really disagree with me. ;)
                      Peace through fear... since 1947!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

                        Cool description but im wondering what map that is.

                        Sounds like you were making progress slowly, maybe a helicopter drop off would have helped. If the pilots are actually capable of staying alive for 5 mins they are most likely looking for things to do so ask via text and/or give the CO some feedback and ask him.

                        If I deny a command I do try and give a good reason, usually thats enough but sometimes he then gives me further info why the original command must stand. The worst ones are the guys who accept a command and ignore it anyway

                        Sometimes the co is just a plank :madsmile:, you dont have to break rules or run into a tank just because he says, just give a reason if you disagree. If the SL is upto no good then its best to leave and join another squad

                        Unfortunately the mother duck squad formation is common and people who spawn on you rarely realise its a bad idea to crowd together. Just remind people to move up ahead of you, give them a minute to listen and kick if they cant acknowledge or follow the order.

                        I had a player wander off towards the enemy hq on the other side of the map but he did turn around eventually and on his way back he spotted a rally point that was not visible to us from our position on a cliff top, so in the end he was usefull. They'd be no squad left most days if you booted everyone right away


                        If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

                          if you have someone in your squad who dont follow your orders and do someting you dont want to do, just kick him from the squad, i always try to lead a squad in the server and most of the time ppl do whatever i say, i dont push too much like some of the SL but if i need something to achieve something in the game and ppl dont listen i just kick those guys from the squad.

                          you may think kicking from the squad isnt a good thing or isnt too much but in the server when you have 90 sec to join a squad and most of the times all squad are full is a big thing.

                          add to that you can lock a squad if you only need 3 or max 4 guys.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

                            "Commander we're pinned down, can't talk, squad x out" usually does the job.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Opportunist fire in a 3 minute culture

                              SLs need to keep in mind that COs only have a vague awareness of what's happening on the ground. They issue orders based on their 'big picture' view of things, but sometimes the SL needs to give a more detailed description of what's going on from their perspective. In that situation, it is reasonable for a SL to offer suggestions to a CO and to work it out from there. Most (although not all) COs will make adjustments to their orders based on this feedback.

                              That said, IT IS NOT OK TO DISOBEY A DIRECT ORDER FROM A CO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. The CO may be right, he may be wrong, but he is the CO. There is no room for a breakdown of discipline on the TG servers PERIOD. It is not ok to 'fool' the CO into thinking you're carrying out his orders either. And if you don't like the job that the CO is doing, then I suggest you step up to plate more often and show people how it's done.

                              3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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