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  • Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

    I want to bring a concern of mine to the community:

    7 Gates map is a senerio in which UK attacks a well defended Chinese area. The UK team has to capture 2 flags West of the River before proceeded across the river and to the grand prize known as Temple. Temple is a very well defended and hard to attack peak. Once the UK team capture the other two flags, it is very difficult to attack Temple as all the Chinese forces are there, defending, with a tactical advantage.

    I was leading Squad Alpha of the British Forces in the 7 Gates map. My entire squad was competent, had VOIP, and was entirely willing to work together. After spawn, we proceeded due east across the very northern part of the map. We were on strict weapons silence, we were not there to get into a firefight, camp, or make our presence known. We set up a rally point north of Temple, and then proceeded to climb the Temple walls. Once inside of the compound, we destroyed ralley points and commander assets that we found. Our squad did not shoot Chinese people that did not see us, we simply did not want our presence to be known and we didn't want a huge firefight. Most of all, we didn't want to be known as "campers" and spawn "rapers." We then proceeded to the main flag area, which is under the Temple and can only be accessed once a gate is blown open. We blew open the gate, the entire squad got in, and we repaired the gate. Thus making everything seem like normal. We intended to hide inside of the flag capture area and when the rest of our team captured the other two flags, we would immediately make progress on the Temple flag.

    When the Chinese are defending the Temple flag, it is near impossible to gain access. However, if you insert yourself before the Chinese are aware of any perceived threat, you can easily take the flag. This to me, is what part of a tactical gamer is all about. This is what a real military force would do.

    However, during the game, our team was having a hard time even taking one of the western most flags. Normally, those flags are taken quickly, and the battle at the temple begins. However, not this time. The team noticed my squad at the Temple, and began calling us campers, base rapers, and other names of the sort. There was a small argument in which my squad tried to defend our tactical significance in the game. See, it is near impossible, especially with a large ticket deficit, to take Temple unless you have a squad already inserted.

    This is my concern. A squad should be aloud to take tactical measures. We were not base raping, we did everything we could to avoid confrontation with the Chinese. Had our team been able to take the other two flags (which normally isn't that hard of a feet), we would have swiftly taken Temple...

    So is this, or is this not a tactical game server?

    Another map where a tactic of this nature is extremely effective is in Operation Ghost Train. In that map, the British forces must initially capture Temple (a flag on their side of the map), before they can take any other flag. However, a Chinese squad can quickly rush there (even though they cannot capture the flag) and keep the British from taking it. The result is the British forces at North Bridge and (possibly) South Bridge (which will make up the majority of their team) cannot do anything why they wait for the few troops they sent to Temple to capture it... It is tactically sound... But technically against the AAS.

  • #2
    Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

    Actually you dont know how close u came to winning. If dirtboy hadn't repaired the bunker at river you d have won the map...cam within 30 secs i reckon. rest of squads did what they were told after a few choice words
    Gerardnm

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    • #3
      Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

      Originally posted by gerardnm View Post
      Actually you dont know how close u came to winning. If dirtboy hadn't repaired the bunker at river you d have won the map...cam within 30 secs i reckon. rest of squads did what they were told after a few choice words
      So you understand the tactical advantage to what we were doing? We would have neutralized the Temple with 45 seconds of River Fortification being neutralized.

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      • #4
        Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

        What the squad in question was doing is not considered tactical, or even acceptable, in light of the rules set by the mod developers and the administrators of this server.

        There has been lots of discussion regarding "pre-emptive" defending of an uncappable, neutral flag, ie MEC taking the beaches on Al Burj. General consensus is that this takes away from the spirit of the game and the purpose of the AAS orders (Defend this CP, Capture that CP, etc). The flag that was being occupied was not even gray and available for the enemy to cap, so it was not a defensive maneuver.

        Furthermore, by TG rules you cannot occupy a CP you cannot capture, you can only enter for Special Operations, ie. blowing up assets (Artillery) and then leaving. In this specific example (I was one of the UK members calling this squad out) when it became clear that the rest of the team could not capture River Fort, the squad in the Temple was of no help to the team and should have assisted in capturing the required flag(s). Just because you ran ahead and got out of position does not mean that you must demand the rest of the team catch up to you. Sitting up there and telling the rest of the team that they suck is not tactical. And, yes, certain members of that squad were saying exactly that before any other discussion started.

        Here is some required reading on the rules set to play on this server. If you do not like these rules, there are many other PR servers that you can play on.
        C) Entering and/or attacking an uncapturable base should be done only with the express purpose of attacking command resources such as artillery emplacements, radar towers/trailers and UAV launchers. Entering an uncapturable base for the express purpose of destroying vehicles and/or camping the uncapturable spawn is prohibited.
        |TG-6th|Belhade
        "I am actually looking forward to watching Jon and Kate plus 8." - Dirtboy




        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

          Originally posted by Belhade View Post
          What the squad in question was doing is not considered tactical, or even acceptable, in light of the rules set by the mod developers and the administrators of this server.

          There has been lots of discussion regarding "pre-emptive" defending of an uncappable, neutral flag, ie MEC taking the beaches on Al Burj. General consensus is that this takes away from the spirit of the game and the purpose of the AAS orders (Defend this CP, Capture that CP, etc). The flag that was being occupied was not even gray and available for the enemy to cap, so it was not a defensive maneuver.

          Furthermore, by TG rules you cannot occupy a CP you cannot capture, you can only enter for Special Operations, ie. blowing up assets (Artillery) and then leaving. In this specific example (I was one of the UK members calling this squad out) when it became clear that the rest of the team could not capture River Fort, the squad in the Temple was of no help to the team and should have assisted in capturing the required flag(s). Just because you ran ahead and got out of position does not mean that you must demand the rest of the team catch up to you. Sitting up there and telling the rest of the team that they suck is not tactical. And, yes, certain members of that squad were saying exactly that before any other discussion started.

          Here is some required reading on the rules set to play on this server. If you do not like these rules, there are many other PR servers that you can play on.
          You need a few lessons in tactics if you do not consider that to be a tactic.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

            Originally posted by Paul386 View Post
            You need a few lessons in tactics if you do not consider that to be a tactic.
            Really not the best way to get your point across. The TG servers do have rules and as pointed out you dint follow them. Just adjust your game play to match the server or move along.

            By you being in an uncapable base just sitting, your CO is down one more squad that could be helping take other flags.
            that sounds like a good idea trooper.
            -Vulcan

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

              Originally posted by Trooper View Post
              Really not the best way to get your point across. The TG servers do have rules and as pointed out you dint follow them. Just adjust your game play to match the server or move along.

              By you being in an uncapable base just sitting, your CO is down one more squad that could be helping take other flags.
              You have to look at the map in the big picture. There is NO chance that British team could have won unless we were there. NO chance. We had a chance with us there.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

                Originally posted by Paul386 View Post
                You need a few lessons in tactics if you do not consider that to be a tactic.
                Have you taken the time to read the stuff that was linked for you? If not, it will give you a good understanding of the TG community and hopefully you will understand better why the rules in place are in place.

                Those rules really aren't up for discussion, they are there to state the expectations when playing on the TG server. TG is one of the highest rated PR servers out there and there is a reason for that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

                  Originally posted by Paul386 View Post
                  You need a few lessons in tactics if you do not consider that to be a tactic.
                  I know what tactics are, thank you. But certain tactics do not necessarily pertain to the game and how it's played here.
                  |TG-6th|Belhade
                  "I am actually looking forward to watching Jon and Kate plus 8." - Dirtboy




                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

                    Belhade has written up an excellent explanation on why a 'pre-emptive' attack on an uncontested control point is not allowed here. Please keep the fight over the control points in the sequence designated by the AAS order.

                    If what Belhade said is true about your squad calling out the rest of the team for not capturing River Fort, that will not go over well here, and especially with me. What exactly was your squad doing to help secure River Fort before attempting to secure Temple? That kind of sportsmanship and behavior will not be tolerated here. I will not put up with any player ridiculing another.

                    As others above have said, I advise you to read all required material before continuing your play.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

                      Originally posted by Paul386 View Post
                      You have to look at the map in the big picture. There is NO chance that British team could have won unless we were there. NO chance. We had a chance with us there.
                      That is patently untrue. I was in a game last week where the British teams took down the flags, in order, then proceeded to assault the Temple. When all squads on one side work in a co-ordianted manner, assisting each other on relevant targets, they can win any map.
                      |TG-6th|Belhade
                      "I am actually looking forward to watching Jon and Kate plus 8." - Dirtboy




                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tactical Gamer: What does it really mean?

                        Originally posted by Paul386 View Post
                        You need a few lessons in tactics if you do not consider that to be a tactic.
                        And you need a few lessons in manners.

                        ANYTHING can be a tactic; a tactic is nothing more than a method toward an end. But that's not what we're about here. You work with your team, you play by the rules. It's not anything goes.

                        If after going over our required reading, you find yourself with questions about our rules, I encourage you to PM an admin for clarification. If you find yourself disagreeing with our rules, I wish you luck in your future endeavors elsewhere. But until then, I think this thread has run its course.
                        [volun2]
                        NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                        Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                        <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                        <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                        Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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