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What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

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  • What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

    Last night was the first time I had the chance to play the map Zatar Wetlands (i was on the USMC side). I want to give darth disco some credit for taking up the command slot on the USMC side he did a good job even though we never fully got coordinated.

    The question/concern I have is that I noticed something thats was very Similar to Fools Road however instead of blowing up the bridge between the southern part of Village and the British Main. I saw some MEC players with shoulder AA missiles on the rock insland between LZ 1 and 2, and APC's, infantry firing at the blackhawks/locking on the moment they were occupied on the carrier and shooting at the carrier itself. I understand that the MEC has to secure both LZ's before the USMC gets there but at the same time....the USMC's have to make it to the LZ's and or the other flags, and they only way they can do that is to be able to safely leave the carrier. (its a choke point)

    I don't want to belabor this, but, its kind of frustrating getting shot on the carrier which is an uncap and or getting into a BH that is immediately locked onto, on the carrier and shot down once it lifts off.

    I was just curious if anyone else had any comments and or suggestion, i wasn't sure if it was appropriate here or in the after action reports....
    Last edited by Delta*RandyShugart*; 01-23-2008, 11:38 AM. Reason: need to re-title the heading
    Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
    Level II Volunteer FireFighter
    Level I HazMat Technician
    NYS EMT-B
    Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

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    Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
    RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
    Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
    Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
    We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."


  • #2
    Re: Is there an Official Rule on Zatar Wetlands? (similiar to fools road)

    Originally posted by Delta*RandyShugart* View Post
    Last night was the first time I had the chance to play the map Zatar Wetlands (i was on the USMC side). I want to give darth disco some credit for taking up the command slot on the USMC side he did a good job even though we never fully got coordinated.

    The question/concern I have is that I noticed something thats was very Similar to Fools Road however instead of blowing up the bridge between the southern part of Village and the British Main. I saw some MEC players with shoulder AA missiles on the rock insland between LZ 1 and 2, and APC's, infantry firing at the blackhawks/locking on the moment they were occupied on the carrier and shooting at the carrier itself. I understand that the MEC has to secure both LZ's before the USMC gets there but at the same time....the USMC's have to make it to the LZ's and or the other flags, and they only way they can do that is to be able to safely leave the carrier. (its a choke point)

    I don't want to belabor this, but, its kind of frustrating getting shot on the carrier which is an uncap and or getting into a BH that is immediately locked onto, on the carrier and shot down once it lifts off.

    I was just curious if anyone else had any comments and or suggestion, i wasn't sure if it was appropriate here or in the after action reports....
    Isn't that effectively spawn camping the UCB? As the TG Server rules don't allow bomb/strafing runs over a land based UCB, I would have thought that effectively doing the same thing by locking up and firing on aircraft still over the UCB would make this a No-Go.


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    • #3
      Re: Official Ruling on Zatar Wetlands

      Randy - we can look into this but I think you need to change the title of the thread - it is extremely misleading.

      "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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      • #4
        Re: Official Ruling on Zatar Wetlands

        I've played as MEC on this map once since .7 came out, and what you were describing was a problem. We happened to be extremely well organized and rolled quickly to the LZs. We got AA guns and vodniks up on the hills east & west and the choppers could barely even get off the carrier to maneuver. IMO the problem could be fixed by simply moving the carrier back a bit.

        The one other time I played the map was as USMC and I really enjoyed the it. The gameplay has improved tremendously over the old .6 version where the MEC commonly pushed the US back to the airport. If the carrier would just be moved back a bit, the map would be excellent regardless of which side was quicker on the draw in the beginning.

        ~Pilot

        |
        |

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        • #5
          Re: Official Ruling on Zatar Wetlands

          If they're shooting at Blackhawks as they leave the carrier they are intentionally base camping and need to be reported. Period.

          GroundedPilot, what you described I would not allow.

          I didn't join a squad once and this guy named Nardini took me into the back room and beat me with a sock of oranges.

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          • #6
            Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

            I must say I really enjoyed the way the map is setup, so much so that I posted something about it in the PR Tactics thread in the BF2 Mission and Tactics Forum.

            I Feel that the USMC team should be given the 2 LZ's or atleast 1 of them with a Temporary Spawn point. That would cut down on the AA locks on the Carrier and the shooting of the Seahawks off of the carrier.

            This version of the map is great. I hope i can play it again soon.
            Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
            Level II Volunteer FireFighter
            Level I HazMat Technician
            NYS EMT-B
            Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

            sigpic




            Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
            RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
            Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
            Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
            We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

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            • #7
              Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

              The Carrier should be moved out another 200m. Problem solved :-/
              Skud


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              • #8
                Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

                We had some similar carrier "camping" on Jabal early this morning as well. The MEC had an AA emplacement somewhere on the shoreline and were firing at the carrier (fairly accurately - killed me twice). Since it was the end of the round and we were losing sorely I didn't make much of an issue of it.

                I believe the carrier is a lot further out on Jabal than on Zatar, so moving it further from shore might reduce the problem but not entirely correct it.

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                • #9
                  Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

                  The carrier should be up in the top right of the map. Where the letters "NE" are imprinted. The hills in that area should be a "no-go" area for the MEC, and would kill them if they got close. That way, blackhawks and Littlebirds have the freedom to take off and venture to wherever they want. If they get shot down while in transit, that's the game.

                  How hard would it be to modify the map?
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

                    not possible to move the carrier on zatar without some major revamping.....

                    the map is kind of interesting, but probably wont be sticking around for next release (or any of the vanilla maps)

                    i think you guys will be pleased with the next wave of PR maps, much more PR goodness without the terrible vanilla map design.

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                    • #11
                      Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

                      shame, I quite like Zatar even if it doesnt quite play out evenly, it is at least something pretty different to other maps


                      I would not attack traffic approaching the first two landing sites, blow them up as they land or pass over the flag if you like.




                      For the USMC CO I would like to see orders for 1 heli per squad only. The nature of the map requires a massively parallel operation instead of a conventional serial attack. Mobility & diversity is the strength that must be exploited to win this map.

                      Theres 7 helis, if 4 of those squads fail and crash that leaves each of the other 3 squads in helis to assault a seperate flag and so divide the MEC defences

                      9 squads in total or roughly 3 or 4 per squad is a good idea. 2 squads could be purely ground forces and that leaves each squad also able to set a RP still.

                      3 of those 7 helis are attack helis but they have the ability to carry the squad leader back to his troops with an officer kit and quickly reestablish a rally point. I think thats even more important then their attack ability which is severely limited by their lack of armour anyway


                      ^^ All that is a bit much to ask of a pub team which is not the maps fault, assault maps always require more cordination from the attackers.
                      We should play this map as a scrim map before it disappears into the mists of time


                      If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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                      • #12
                        Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

                        Originally posted by fuzzhead View Post
                        not possible to move the carrier on zatar without some major revamping.....

                        the map is kind of interesting, but probably wont be sticking around for next release (or any of the vanilla maps)

                        i think you guys will be pleased with the next wave of PR maps, much more PR goodness without the terrible vanilla map design.
                        fuzzhead, you just made my day. I hate the freaking vanilla maps.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

                          Originally posted by fuzzhead View Post
                          not possible to move the carrier on zatar without some major revamping.....
                          Hmm, do you mean they would have to decompile (probably not even possible) and recompile the map to be able to move models? Can't they just spawn a second carrier through script in the north east corner as suggested before?

                          Problem with this map is that it provokes spawnraping/UCB camping... last time I played the map we were being raped by a firebase + AA gun just south west of the carrier :(.
                          Xfire: Iaintyourm8 | Ingame: GhostDog | Steam: Zuigmijnballen

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                          • #14
                            Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

                            What I do not understand is that PR has had so many Great maps in the past, and yet, they have been discarded. Operation Pheonix, Muttrah, Steel Thunder, Helmand (Which, with a little revamping could be aweosme) etc. Why remove these maps?

                            They were good maps...PR needs more maps if maps such as Daqing Oilfields and Zatar wetlands are going to be removed. PR has 17-18 maps right now, including that ghastly Hamgyong map. With a little revamping of so many PR maps that have been "thrown away" we could easily have 26-28 good maps. I really wish that some of these maps make a comeback.
                            Last edited by Catraphact; 01-25-2008, 09:42 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: What is the official Ruling for Zatar?

                              Amen.
                              sigpic


                              Do you really want invincible bears running around raping your churches and burning your women?

                              Intel i7 3930k @ 4.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 2x GTX 570 1gb, OCZ Vertex 3 120 gig SSD

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