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  • Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

    Yo guys i was reading a thread on the PR forums about whether rally points should be kept or not.

    http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-...ly-points.html

    I personally think that rally points are annoying and spoil the game. There have been 2 many times when a squad have been on a flag, my squad kill em all with ease, only to find out 1 min later when flag has gone grey that were all dead. from the other squad sniping us from their RP. This then turns into a slug fest/rally-hunt once both sides have rough ideas of the rally points location. The CP then seem ignored till one of the of the rally points is destroyed.
    AND I HATE BEING KILLED. Having that 1 Death. That one death of shame in your score is just horrible.

    i think the removal of rally points will seriously encourage covering fire, and correct use of kits. For example right now the support kit, dnt really pin any thing down for more then 4 seconds, cause the guy your shooting at aint scared to die. cause he can spawn in again 50 meters away and be back up on the front line in 40 seconds and snipe the support gunner cause he now knows where he is.
    How ever if the support got the kill, and the bad guy had to spawn back at the main/firebase, This would then give the surviving squad a chance to cap, and then lay down an ambush for the the enemy reinforcements.

    From rally's being removed proper tactics would start being used. Squads would have to be organised, And Value their lives. to complete their objective, This would also make objectives for more important to cap and defend since the squad wouldnt be able to spawn back on rally within a mater of seconds. I think this would also make fire fights last longer( as in not geting, killed, spawn at rally, kill ,dead again spawn at rally, and so on. This would mean you'd have to pop up take 2 shots get down. cover fire, scare the enemy, and the Better squad/better used tactics would win.

    Also ppl will say but it would take to long to get up the line again. but this is what will make players value their lives and, the crazy slugfest will end at CP's if not end completely cause squads wont be running into each other at knife fighting range blasting eachother at full auto.

    Anywhoo, i think if any ppl like the idea of no RP's we could try have an organised night at TG and both teams agree not to lay down rp's and see how that works out :)
    PR ingame name - |TG-Irr| SilverJohn

  • #2
    Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

    i think the rally points are supposed to symbolise were your squad (part of a bigger brattalion) would recive reinforcemnts correct me if im wrong but i removing the rally points is a bad ides especialy on the larger maps like kashan desert were it would take 5 mins just to get back to were you origionly died

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

      Sounds nice....

      Too intense though, for most... Something needs to represent the "presence" of more force then simply 32 players, i guess spawning is supposed to. And i say this only because there must be a reason for the spawn, for games like CS do not have it, so i says the spawn tries to portray the presence of "more force".

      Perhaps a longer timer between rally placements?
      Or maybe something funny and fishy like, SM can only spawn at rally if SL is within 50 meters of the rally, while SL can spawn any time he likes?

      This would at least force squads to move as a unit if they wanted to spawn...

      lol...

      Not sure, but there may be room for change + betterment, an alas i know betterment is nay a word but for this gleen it's working, you.
      listen close
      to the rat-tat-tat-
      as the metal flies,
      we should know as fact:
      that unearthly demons
      are part of our pack,
      and as we engage you
      in battle we pass.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

        Ivan i disagree with you.

        Think of this. Kashan Desert. You have jets/armor and helis all around you. If all vehicles are in use, you now half to hoof it for 5 min just to get up to the front. Plus u have to dodge bllets from snipers/jets/helos/vehicles. Teams could sit 500m away from a CP and just watch as people start running out to get to the CP, they are easy picking.

        However you have a CP to the west of North bunker and everyone is coming from Main. That one squad has the chance of flanking the enemy without being seen due to a hidden rally.

        Sure its a PIA hunting a rally point, but if you know there is one out there. Stay at the CP and fend off attacks until you know for sure where the Rally is(you would know this due to the direction the E is coming from).

        You have to look at this from both points. Yes, no RP's better covering fire, more tactics. No RP's "CP Raping" due to people not being able to spawn anywhere but there, or a Bunker if the commander can get out. If you want to chance RP's change them so that they have to be placed further away from a CP or have to be within a certain distance from another RP(but this again kills the chance of a flanking team spawning).

        I am not completely saying No to this idea, it just needs to be thought out more.

        Sorry if I have offended, I respect you as a person and gamer(through our times on PR and ArmA)

        Agnew

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

          I think the ideas behind taking out rally points that you have given certainly sound appropriate Ivan, but this is still a game, and the respawn times are supposed to promote staying alive. It's a hard balance between realism and enjoyable gameplay, one that is constantly being discussed here and at prmm.com.

          The best compromise that ive seen for this is a map like EJOD dessert (16) where there simply isnt enough space between flags to place rallies within the city. Once you get into the huge maps like kashan and even Qwai River, a lack of rallies would be detrimental to moral and playability. I would like to see some more small urban conflicts where the tactics you described above could be used.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

            The Rally Points are vital to PR. It simulates a larger battlefield than you're really on. Think of it this way: It seems like an epic defense when you kill 36 guys but really that's just 1 squad 6 times. But by numbers you and your squad defended against a platoon...

            It's an important Gameplay mechanic.

            Go play arma if you want no respawns...
            Skud


            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

              Originally posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post
              The Rally Points are vital to PR. It simulates a larger battlefield than you're really on. Think of it this way: It seems like an epic defense when you kill 36 guys but really that's just 1 squad 6 times. But by numbers you and your squad defended against a platoon...

              It's an important Gameplay mechanic.

              Go play arma if you want no respawns...
              completely agree with your statement skud, its essential the the mod and premise of the game.
              Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
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              • #8
                Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

                Originally posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post

                Go play arma if you want no respawns...
                Funny you should mention that...Ivan is one of the better ARMA players I've had the pleasure of squadding up with.
                sigpic
                |TG-1st|Grunt
                ARMA Admin (retired)
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                • #9
                  Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

                  I hate rally points, in fact I destroy them as soon as I see one.

                  Seriosuly though: people are already calling this a "walking simulator". Now I don't agree with that, but without the rally points this game would be very slow.
                  snǝɹʎɥ⊥

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

                    Originally posted by Ivan_the_bad View Post
                    I personally think that rally points are annoying and spoil the game.
                    I am assuming your views are colored by our experience last night on Fools road; running around in the hills north of the depot either hunting for a RP or desparately trying to save/move ours.

                    That experience was rather unlike the effect that RP are supposed to represent (larger number of troops) or at least it felt that way. Most likely because even though we were on defence, we were spending most of our time roaming empty hillsides looking for a magical soldier dispenser. (which for the record we did find and destroy, though it took forever) Since our focus was on the RP, not directly on the defense of the flag(though in practical terms, one helps the other) the illusion of "reality" was kinda missing.

                    However, it is only rarely when I feel that way and the removal of the RP would grind the game down to a pace that would not be much fun...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

                      Originally posted by Ivan_the_bad View Post
                      Yo guys i was reading a thread on the PR forums about whether rally points should be kept or not.

                      http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-...ly-points.html

                      I personally think that rally points are annoying and spoil the game. There have been 2 many times when a squad have been on a flag, my squad kill em all with ease, only to find out 1 min later when flag has gone grey that were all dead. from the other squad sniping us from their RP. This then turns into a slug fest/rally-hunt once both sides have rough ideas of the rally points location. The CP then seem ignored till one of the of the rally points is destroyed.
                      AND I HATE BEING KILLED. Having that 1 Death. That one death of shame in your score is just horrible.
                      I think that half the people over at reality mod on the forums are whacked. They want the devs to incorporate gun jams, etc. That's crazy talk. This is, at the end of the day, supposed to be an enjoyable game.

                      Originally posted by Ivan_the_bad View Post
                      i think the removal of rally points will seriously encourage covering fire, and correct use of kits. For example right now the support kit, dnt really pin any thing down for more then 4 seconds, cause the guy your shooting at aint scared to die. cause he can spawn in again 50 meters away and be back up on the front line in 40 seconds and snipe the support gunner cause he now knows where he is.
                      How ever if the support got the kill, and the bad guy had to spawn back at the main/firebase, This would then give the surviving squad a chance to cap, and then lay down an ambush for the the enemy reinforcements.
                      I agree that covering fire doesn't work just yet, and so do the devs. They're going to fix that in the next release (I hope, at least Fuzzhead said they were).

                      I don't think anyone, ok, most players, runs around without regard for their life. However, on the PR battlefield, where death can come from anywhere and at an incredible distance, dying is just part of playing.

                      Originally posted by Ivan_the_bad View Post
                      From rally's being removed proper tactics would start being used. Squads would have to be organised, And Value their lives. to complete their objective, This would also make objectives for more important to cap and defend since the squad wouldnt be able to spawn back on rally within a mater of seconds. I think this would also make fire fights last longer( as in not geting, killed, spawn at rally, kill ,dead again spawn at rally, and so on. This would mean you'd have to pop up take 2 shots get down. cover fire, scare the enemy, and the Better squad/better used tactics would win.
                      What determines victories now, then? Better tactics and strategies. Let's be honest, rally points are a tool available to the SL and effective placement and usage is just as valuable of a tactic as a flanking maneuver on an entrenched enemy position. Realistic or not, RPs do serve their purpose in the game.

                      Originally posted by Ivan_the_bad View Post
                      Also ppl will say but it would take to long to get up the line again. but this is what will make players value their lives and, the crazy slugfest will end at CP's if not end completely cause squads wont be running into each other at knife fighting range blasting eachother at full auto.
                      All I have to say is two words: desert map. If your squad is wiped out from a CP on a desert map, you will *never* regain control with a foot soldier.

                      Originally posted by Ivan_the_bad View Post
                      Anywhoo, i think if any ppl like the idea of no RP's we could try have an organised night at TG and both teams agree not to lay down rp's and see how that works out :)
                      Nope - not gonna happen, and there is no way it would work anyway. Besides, I don't think you won't find 64 players who all think RPs are a bad idea.

                      Also, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that the battles we play out on each map is not an army of 32 soldiers against 32 soldiers. It is really close to 1000 soldiers slugging it out over some small piece of territory. In reality, there is no way that you would try to assault a point with 6 soldiers and expect them take and hold it. The RP system is in place to supplement the inability to realistically have the proper number of soldiers involved in the fight.

                      Let's not try to make PR into ArmA or ArmA into PR or FH2 into PR or anything else. Let each game stand on it's own and if there are enough aspects about a game that a player doesn't like, then I would suggest moving on to another title instead of trying to change one in to something it's not.

                      I'm not trying to be rude, and I've squadded with Ivan and think he's a great player, but let's face the facts here: RPs are an essential tactical as well as game play element in PR and to remove them would be a huge mistake.

                      "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

                        "walking simulator"

                        Don't let simply the mentioning of subjective qualifier distract you from what may be there, for walking brings much it seems, and in that is all that you may act towards in PR..
                        listen close
                        to the rat-tat-tat-
                        as the metal flies,
                        we should know as fact:
                        that unearthly demons
                        are part of our pack,
                        and as we engage you
                        in battle we pass.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

                          You are so P.C. dispo. Are you running for election in 2008?
                          On a side note, I think the spawning off of APC's better simulated bringing in re-enforcements. Would be interesting to see how PRM played out with only APC (or Black Hawk) spawn points instead of RP's...
                          |TG-X|WAREHOUSE

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

                            Originally posted by w.WAREHOUSE View Post
                            You are so P.C. dispo. Are you running for election in 2008?
                            On a side note, I think the spawning off of APC's better simulated bringing in re-enforcements. Would be interesting to see how PRM played out with only APC (or Black Hawk) spawn points instead of RP's...
                            We would just have the hidden APCs in ditches like we did before because they would be too valuable to use to transport troops.
                            |TG-6th|Snooggums

                            Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Rally Points: Wanted or Unwanted

                              Originally posted by w.WAREHOUSE View Post
                              You are so P.C. dispo. Are you running for election in 2008?
                              On a side note, I think the spawning off of APC's better simulated bringing in re-enforcements. Would be interesting to see how PRM played out with only APC (or Black Hawk) spawn points instead of RP's...
                              Maybe I should....


                              I just don't want this to turn into a flame war. The thread on the PRM forums has enough name calling and childish behavior we don't need it here, too.

                              "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

                              Comment

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