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  • New Shader Effects

    What is your take on the new going blind effect when shot at?

    From what I have seen this is a nifty idea but it goes on to fast and to often.
    It feels to me like you only have to shot in the general direction to blind the enemy and I'm seeing alot more full-auto mode being used now.

    Before when you got shot at it was all bout staing calm and aiming, now it about shooting as fast as you can in the general direction of the enemy before he manages to blind you.

    TG-E1st TacticalGamer European Division |




  • #2
    Re: New Shader Effects

    I for one absolutely love it. It simulates not wanting to be shot IRL, now you aren't going to poke your head out for fear of being blinded for a few seconds.

    I didn't join a squad once and this guy named Nardini took me into the back room and beat me with a sock of oranges.

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    • #3
      Re: New Shader Effects

      I think it detracts from gameplay honestly. Everyone's heard my opinion on being a medic with the new effects, but it reaches beyond that. The newest in the line of "cheap tactics" is to shoot near someone to blind them and then take your time in shooting at them. Hell, even with my horrendous aim, it makes life a lot easier.

      In addition to that, the fact that you go blurry when you shoot around yourself is kinda off. In the sense of reality, i pose this: if someone shoots at you, you might not be ready, which is the cause for the suppression effects. But if youre firing your own gun, you've obviously braced for it and know its coming, so theres no real reason you should go all haywire, is there?

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      • #4
        Re: New Shader Effects

        i dont like it. it pretty much means who ever shoots first wins the fire fight.

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        • #5
          Re: New Shader Effects

          Picture yourself below a solid concrete wall being fired upon by automatic gun fire. You hear the bullets hitting all around you. You look for a way out of this mess but damn if you can't actually see anything. So you blindly pick a direction throw smoke for cover and run for it hoping for the best.

          Can you imagine what the poor soldier on D-Day would experience if you went blind every time bullets hit the ground near you? Just imagine that in a game, not real life. Could you even do a Normandy landing with this kind of suppression effect? I don't think you could.

          It's a good feature I think but it really needs to be tweaked and improved.
          .
          "Young gamers assault while Older gamers flank."
          "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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          • #6
            Re: New Shader Effects

            It looks cool is about all I can say positvely at the moment. I think I get where the Devs are coming from in what they are trying to simulate but I have to agree with Ferris here.

            1) Lol its ruined my game shooting wise. Before I wasn't bothered if my opponent got the first shot in when engaged at medium to long range (200 -400 with assault rifle) as people were still struggling with the accuracy. I took my time and 'plink' hopefully dropped my target. Now I have to ensure I get the first shot in to some degree. Its not as simple as that but you get my drift. I practiced for a long time with the last patch's weapons to try and improve my shooting. This would approximate training in effect and therefore should have a benefit. Now people can effectively pin you down with a rifle by bracketing you like a mortar and gradually walking their fire on to target. You are stuck in a dizzy black and white haze as the suppression effect gradually gets worse and worse and closer and closer.

            2) Its made CQB more spammy and a ballet of mad, spinny, shooty death.

            If I go to clear a room (there are going to be more enterable buildings in 0.8 apparently) I want to see a benefit from controlled swift aggression. Before I enter I have an idea where my targets are and once over the threshhold I would like to do my business in 3 round burst or double taps thus minimising the chance of hitting any fiendlies clearing the room with me.

            The fact that I can suppress myself with grenades and firing into nearby walls means that I am far better off lining up with the door, closing my eyes and charging in on full auto before spining round and round and round screaming "Here's Johnny" whilst weeping silently inside.

            All that said I don't hate it and I like most everything else about the patch a lot, so wjhat do I know.


            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New Shader Effects

              I personally love it. I'm not one to get the first shot off. I usually get shot at first then respond. I'm finding now that what I learned in the military is working in this game. I was taught when reacting to being shot at to use double tap, dash, down. What that is, is you shot a bunch a round towards where you are being shot from, run a bit and go prone. This actually works in game. I'm able to turn their vision blurry by shooting at them, move out of the way, clear up my vision and make more accurate shots.

              Now mind you this has only work when against one on one. It also worked when that one on one was lone me vs a Vodnik 50.


              A good leader requires both character and strategy. If he is to be without one, let it be strategy. - General Rick Hilliar, Former Canadian Chief of Defence

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              • #8
                Re: New Shader Effects

                I find it annoying personally, it needs to be toned down a bit IMO. A person leading a squad I was in (can't remember names - sorry!) was pointing out that the effect is similar to squinting through your eyelashes to stop dirt/grit flying up into your eyes. I just think that it makes long range combat a bit hit and miss. Eg. I was being a marksman on Qwai, on the roof of govt. office, and I saw a USMC soldier, lined up on his head, he saw me, fired, blinded me, killed me. It really makes first shot win.
                |TG-Irr| westyfield

                Sig pic by Sonic, avatar by Chalcas. Thanks!
                Irregular since 2007.

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                • #9
                  Re: New Shader Effects

                  Certainly if you are in a one-on-one contest, yes, you can get screwed up by it.

                  But when you have mates backing you up with suppressive fire as well then I didn't find it a problem to deal with.

                  If you start seeing stars, get behind cover while your buddies get the nerve to return fire, when they have some fire down, you can popup your head and join in.

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                  • #10
                    Re: New Shader Effects

                    Overdone but a step in the right direction. I wouldn't mind it if it happened when you were actually hit (damage or not) or from grenades, or if it was a little less blurry from just fire near you. I agree that first shot wins, so now I just toss a bullet at the enemy, then line my shot up like before.
                    |TG-6th|Snooggums

                    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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                    • #11
                      Re: New Shader Effects

                      I like it thou it should be toned down a bit, irl im still abel to fire my rifle when being shot at. but i like it because as masterjack says you can use reallife tactics now, also before this pacht i almost never used fire and manuver, but now you can spilt your sq up in fireteams and move up like the realworld.

                      the thing about your own bullet giving blur, if its posible that should disapear, even the effekt from sq mates bullets would be nice otherwise you cant clear buildings very efficiently.

                      so in essen it should be less extreme

                      BTW: why wont my sig not show?
                      If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks



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                      • #12
                        Re: New Shader Effects

                        Well lets think about this for a minute, Gentlemen. I see a lot of you saying that who shoots first, wins. Isn't that the way it should be? Isn't that the way it is in real life combat? If you are not paying attention and someone gets the drop on you, and their aim is true, by all rights, you should be dead. You have to re-think your movement strategies (if you have them) and act more like a real soldier. You can't just run around with no cover or you will get fired on, blinded/suppressed and killed. That is the way it is in real life. True, some of the maps make this sort of thing a crap shoot, like when trying to take back the Gas Station from USMC Main on EJOD, but that is the situation and in RL it would require some armored transport to make it across. You are just going to have to keep these things in mind guys. The old run and gun tactics don't work as well when all it takes is a few near misses to turn you into a scared, confused monkey with a rifle not knowing where to go or what to do. Move with your squad, stay in cover or concealment as much as possible. If you come under fire and are suppressed, your SL should direct the other members of the squad to fire on the enemy so you can move to better cover/get revived, etc.

                        This is a hefty dose of reality in Project Reality. You can't play like it's vanilla BF2 anymore and it pay off as well as it did before. I must admit that I don't like the suppression effects when I am pinned down and there is no one to help me, but when I have backup and can suppress the enemy in turn, it is a very realistic game dynamic. Don't just say it's a crap change in the game without thinking it through a bit. There are ways to use all of this to your advantage and like Masterjack said, real military tactics do seem to work better now since this aspect of the game has changed to a more realistic effect. True, you don't go blind when fired on in RL, but there is no way for the game to instill fear for your life in a player. There is no way to make you panic because you are right on the edge of death and you know it's coming. The respawns and constantly dying and being revived have dulled our sense of realistic death and we have no fear of charging a tank to put C4 on it, or running across open ground with a whole squad of enemies firing on you. This effect simulates that fear and confusion and artificially instills the loss of coherent thought and action. It's not perfect, but I think it's one of the best compromises I have seen, short of having a no respawn server which is sort of impossible on a 64 player map in BF2.
                        Last edited by Elwenil; 03-20-2008, 04:56 PM. Reason: Typos :/

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                        • #13
                          Re: New Shader Effects

                          I dislike it because even if I am behind some sort of barrier/bunker/whatever, and an APC shoots anywhere near by....I am blind. I have seen a ton of Humvee Rush and Empty out to clear flags. Go in with the .50cal blazing from a distance, blind everyone, get in keep shooting in circles to keep them blinded, have your troops jump out and pick people off. Great idea, easily exploited, would like to see it tweaked.

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                          • #14
                            Re: New Shader Effects

                            Tell you what, if there is a .50 cal firing at me, my ass is hitting the dirt and my head is down PRONTO.

                            Originally posted by Drayu View Post
                            I dislike it because even if I am behind some sort of barrier/bunker/whatever, and an APC shoots anywhere near by....I am blind. I have seen a ton of Humvee Rush and Empty out to clear flags. Go in with the .50cal blazing from a distance, blind everyone, get in keep shooting in circles to keep them blinded, have your troops jump out and pick people off. Great idea, easily exploited, would like to see it tweaked.
                            I believe these are called tactics. Suppress the enemy, move in to flank and eliminate the threat.


                            The effects are fine. The only change I'd like to see is if it didn't happen from your own weapon fire, but I doubt that is possible. Even with that minor irritant, it still works well.

                            "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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                            • #15
                              Re: New Shader Effects

                              Good points Elwenil but I don't think anyone is suggesting it's a crap change lol.

                              The semi-serious point I was trying to make was that if you have practiced your shooting skills this is generally reflected in the game. This would be the simulated equivalent of being a well drilled, battlehardened soldier. Therefore in the past I have held my nerve and hoped that my shooting ability (lol or lack of) would allow me to get the first shot on target, the round that counts as it were. I still move, look for cover etc.

                              I am not discounting the value of suppressive fire and I think that this is an excellent attempt to simulate it. What I am trying to say is that there is a danger that this effect exagerrates the effectiveness of a poor marksmans rounds down range at you.

                              In essence the game is in danger of removing my ability to choose to hold my ground and trust in my ability to shoot to prevail. I appreciate that this is a lean towards realism that I for one welcome but surely in real life would I not have the option to go toe to toe, as it were, with my opponent. Admittedly this would probably be stupid and possibly fatal but it would be an option.

                              I have no rl military experience therefore I do not profess to be an expert on this but this is still a simulation. A simulation that should offer choices. What I am querying is the enforced nature of this. In a sense it levels the playing field in an unnatural way don't you think. We often hear and read of troops overcoming a situation/opponent by outshooting them, by having superior training. If anybody who can hit the ground in your general vicinty can blind you it seems a little wrong to me. Do well trained troops close their eyes when fired upon? I know this is not the intended simulated effect but this is how it is represented in game. This is where I think it is a little too heavy. In a way it is the same argument as the deviation one that surrounded the last patch. Maybe the proximity that triggers the effect could be reduced so that only really effective fire has this effect, I am unsure of the currect radius that triggers it.

                              Still good points made by all and it a valid argument either way. Must say though that I am loving the patch as a whole.


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