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CC's Guide to Maplist Making

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  • CC's Guide to Maplist Making

    So, there's been a lot of talk about maplists lately, and rather than making a maplist myself, I've decided to make a guide to making maplists (you know: “If you give a man a fish...”). But just listing off all the maps would be rather boring, so I'm going to editorialize a bit to keep myself entertained. Anyway, here's what I think one should keep in mind when making a maplist:

    Order: Obviously, when you make a maplist, the order of the maps is going to be important. In fact, the order of the maps is pretty much the only thing you do when you make a maplist (other than decide which maps to include and exclude, *cough* Hamyong). But I'm not bringing this up because I care about the order; I'm bringing it up because I care about gameplay. You see, the TG server has a bad habit of crashing, so the first few maps are going to be played again and again whenever the server resets. Also, those maps near the end will be played less because (unfortunately) the server often crashes before it gets to them. So it makes sense to place fun maps which everyone likes near the beginning and leave Daquing Oilfields for the end. Of course, the “fun maps” will rapidly become less fun as they are played every time the server resets.

    Setting: When I talk about the setting of a map I am talking about all the things that go into a map: environment, factions, vehicles, and stuff. While the “stuff” is less important, you should consider the other three things when designing a maplist. To help you do this, I will be pigeonholing the maps into simple categories like “jungle” and “desert”. And if that wasn't enough, I'll also further simplify things by listing the (important) vehicles available on each map. This way, people with little to no familiarity with PR can still have the fun and exciting experience of making a maplist. Still, only the greatest of maplist makers will remember to consider the order of settings: does one put three forest maps together, or does one alternate PLA vs. British maps with USMC vs. MEC.? And how do the vehicles fit in, would it be good to have two armor maps back to back? A true maplist master will create a delicate balance of variety.

    Length: To calculate the precise length of a particular map multiply the map size by ticket count and then divide by the gross skill of the players (look for my skill calculating tutorial on WeGame), and remember to add 13.37 extra skill for each player wearing a TG tag. If you find that too complicated, you can follow the general rule of thumb that big map + lots of tickets = long game. And if that's still too complicated, I'll go ahead and arbitrarily group all the maps into “long”, “medium”, and “short” categories. Don't worry, it doesn't take a degree in advanced gaming mathematics to make a good maplist; you just don't want to put too many long maps in a row.

    Balance: A balanced maplist is one in which the maps are not all biased towards one team. You see, despite the best efforts of the PR team, some maps give one team a minor (or major) advantage over the other. So it's important to make sure that both teams have maps biased in their favor. Also important is the fact that the teams switch sides after every round; so the NATO team in the first game would become the CATA team in the second while the first CATA team would become the NATO team during the second round (in case you don't know, NATO is composed of the heroic warriors of the USMC and Great Britian while CATA is cesspool of cowardly, leprous, inbred, slave-conscripts from the PLA, MEC, Insurgents, and Militia). To help sort things out, I'll note which maps are balanced and which aren't.

    Besides the four factors I have mentioned, there is also one more extremely important consideration, namely: my opinion. And to make extra sure you know what I think, I will be inserting little blurbs of Charity Case wisdom throughout the rest of the post.

    On to the maps!

    Al Basra
    Setting: Desert/Urban, British vs. Insurgent, APCs and tanks for British, molotovs and Optimus Prime for the Insurgents
    Length: Medium
    Balance: 64 player is pro-Insurgent, 32 player is pro-British
    CC Says: The 64 player layer is broken and the 32 player layer isn't much better. Wait for .8 before you try and put this in rotation.

    Al Kufrah Oilfield
    Setting: Desert, British vs. MEC, very armor heavy
    Length: Medium
    Balance: Pro-British
    CC Says: This map is OK if you're in a tank, otherwise, it sucks. The glitchy collision mesh on the Challenger 2 means it can take about twice as many hits as the T-90, biasing this map heavily in favor of the Brits. Now that the RARDEN is no longer a flaming pile of poo, they should really change the vehicle setup on this map so that it is 4 T-90s and 2 BTRs vs 4 Challengers and 2 Warriors. Still, even with the fixes, this map will remain uninspired since all the tanks do is drive around the edge of the map and all the infantry do is rush the flags.

    Assault on Mestia
    Setting: Forest, British vs Militia, primarily infantry but with a few APCs
    Length: Short to medium
    Balance: Pro-British
    CC Says: This is a small map with intense, close-quarters infantry combat. The forest environment seriously limits vehicle maneuverability so the APCs aren't too dangerous. Still, the British have the advantage assuming they don't split their forces up at the beginning. And the Militia really need a commander for bunkers and fire bases if they hope to win. This was once a map which everyone enjoyed, but it has since become overplayed (like every other map). The 16 player layer is a possible seeder map once the last bit of life has sucked from Ejod and Quai 16.

    Bi Ming
    Setting: Forest, British vs PLA, pure infantry goodness
    Length: Short to medium
    Balance: Fairly balanced, maybe a little pro-British
    CC Says: I could tell you where the M95 is, but then Skud would have to kill me (and you).

    Daqing Oilfields
    Setting: EAs perverse version of China (read:forest/industrial), USMC vs PLA, infantry and APCs
    Length: Medium
    Balance: Balanced
    CC Says: I don't play this one that often, and neither should you. It looks balanced on paper, but the US always seem to win. Certainly a lot more balanced than .7, when the US could set up massive batteries of AA guns overlooking East Oilfield.

    EJOD Desert
    Setting: Desert/Urban, USMC vs MEC, infantry and APCs
    Length: Medium
    Balance: Pretty balanced
    CC Says: Some love it, some hate it, I kind of like it. While the G3 is not so hot in the urban environments, the MEC should be able to lay the smack down with their BTRs (keyword: should). Rushing the city center is always a good idea, as long as you leave four guys behind to cap the early flags. I really wish they would take the Sunset City approach with this one and turn the whole Gardens/West City/East City/Ruins blob into one big CP. The 16 player layer is good for seeding (as if I have to tell you that).

    Fools Road
    Setting: Forest, British vs Militia, a very infantry friendly map with British APCs vs Militia tanks
    Length: Medium to long
    Balance: Pro-British?
    CC Says: One of the best looking maps in my opinion. It's a shame that the dense forests make this map unplayable for people with low-end computers. This map was firmly biased towards the British before the rule change to the bridge outside of the British main. I haven't played it enough since then to judge if things have changed, but I bet it's still pretty biased. The CP groups are a little nonsensical, I would prefer if they did it like Mestia and had the Militia hold most of the flags at the beginning. Oh, and bring back the BRDM Spandrel.

    Gulf of Oman
    Setting: Desert/Suburban, USMC vs MEC, Helicopters and APCs for the USMC, ridiculous amounts of armor for the MEC
    Length: Medium
    Balance: Serious balance issues
    CC Says: Ever since the BF2 demo, the USMC has been continuously assaulting this unhappy beach. But PR spices up this dull map by giving the MEC team about 20 tanks.

    Hills of Hamgyong
    Setting: The Invasion of Normandy (except in China), USMC vs PLA, pure infantry badness
    Length: Hideously short
    Balance: Very pro-PLA
    CC Says: I'm pretty sure Spamyong was made back in .4 or .5, when general infantry were not armed with telescopic lasers. Now the USMC get vaporized by the Chinese defenders. Also, the PLA get a JDAM just in case the marines make it up the hill. Do not put this map in rotation.

    Jabal Al-Burj
    Setting: Desert/Mountains, USMC vs MEC, Helicopters and APCs for the marines, APCs and lots of Vodnicks for the MEC
    Length: Medium to long
    Balance: A little pro-MEC
    CC Says: A smart MEC team should have no problem defeating the US. The key is to rush the Dam CP instead of West Beach. Then, once you have dam, you take East Beach. Never take West Beach; no one's given a crap about West Beach since .6. Still, the map is not too imbalanced, and a organized US team should have a good chance at winning. Like it or not, this map is a classic and should be included in all maplists.

    Kashan Desert
    Setting: Desert, USMC vs MEC, massive combined arms
    Length: Long
    Balance: Balanced
    CC Says: All three layers of this map are good for something. Personally I like the 16 and 32 player layers best, but the jet whores gotta have their Kashan 64. In case you don't know, the 16 player layer is jeeps, support trucks, and transport helicopters only, the 32p has all vehicles except jets, and the 64p has all vehicles except attack helicopters. I'm biased towards the 32p layer because the attack helos aren't as uber as the jets and they seat two people, so there are (hopefully) fewer people lounging around the main. Make sure not to put this map back to back with another long one.

    Operation Ghost Train
    Setting: Jungle, British vs PLA, infantry and one APC per side
    Length: Short
    Balance: a little pro-PLA
    CC Says: If you like grass, or thunder, or frogs then this is the map for you. The combat is close-quarters and rewards stealth. I think the Chinese have a slight advantage because it's easier for them to get to Temple after capping North Bridge. The ticket bleed sets in very fast (too fast) on this map so it never takes too long. I think it would be nice if bleed was removed from the Temple and Train CPs.

    Qwai River
    Setting: Rural/Industrial, USMC vs PLA, Tanks, APCs, and a scout helo for the PLA, APCs, TOW HMMWVs, and Little Birds for the Marine Corps
    Length: Long
    Balance: Balanced
    CC Says: An enjoyable and very balanced map. The varied terrain and asymmetrical sides make it interesting. Unfortunately, it often turns into a camp-fest once one team is capped back to their second to last flag. I wouldn't mind if some slow ticket bleed was added once a side has been capped back to their last two flags. Qwai 16 also makes a decent seeder map, though I find it geographically biased towards the Marine Corps and for some reason people are always fighting over the eastern fields, which have no strategic value. Despite these minor problems, Qwai is definitely one of the best maps (if not the best). Although, I wouldn't mind if the fields were remapped with overgrowth so that you could actually hide in them (a pet peeve of mine).

    Road to Kyongan'Ni
    Setting: Rural/Forest, USMC vs PLA, infantry and light vehicles
    Length: Short to medium
    Balance: Pro-USMC
    CC Says: Although I find it uninspiring, Kyongan'Ni can feature some good infantry action. The two main points (Airdrop and Kyongan'Ni) are extremely defensible and you're guaranteed a hard-fought battle. Bizarrely, the USMC starts out with a 50 ticket lead, which makes things especially hard for the Chinese. This is not a good map, but it's not a bad one either.

    Seven Gates
    Setting: Forest/Mountains, British vs PLA, APCs for the Brits, impenetrable doom fortress for the Chinese
    Length: Short to medium
    Balance: Pro-Chinese
    CC Says: This is not a "fun map". Between the constant British HAT snipering and the Chinese River Fort (aka Sauron's Tower), there's something in here to displease everyone. This is really a shame because I used to find this map enjoyable, but the overwhelming Chinese advantage has taken the thrill out of it. You see, once the PLA deploys a bunker at River Fort, it is basically impossible for them to lose. I think putting a spawn delay on the Chinese support trucks would help the issue, but I'm not sure it would fix it.

    Sunset City
    Setting: Urban/Mountains, USMC vs PLA, infantry, light vehicles, and a boat!
    Length: Medium
    Balance: Pro-PLA
    CC Says: I like Sunset City, not because it's badly balanced or because it reminds me of vanilla, but because it brings back fond memories of pwning the 10th. If this map had some CPs like North Desert and Gas Station from Ejod, then it would be good, but in its current form the Chinese instantly cap the city and leave the marines defending their totally indefensible base. Still, I really like the one huge flag, so this map gets points for trying.

    The Battle for Qinling
    Setting: Forest/Mountains, British vs PLA, every vehicle imaginable (including the dirt bike)
    Length: Freakin' Long
    Balance: Pro-British
    CC Says: This map has issues. For one, it features the impenetrable Challenger 2. And for two, the Chinese are stuck with the J-10 (which probably predates the Wright Brothers). But the vehicle imbalances are quickly eclipsed by the massive lag this map generates. Still, on a map this big, the only deciding factor is teamwork, so either team can easily (but not quickly) win if they've got things together. I'm sure if the ticket count was knocked down from 600 to 450 no one would mind.

    Zatar Wetlands
    Setting: Wetlands/Mountains, USMC vs MEC, Hueys, TOW HMMWVs, and APCs for the US, APCs and Tanks for the MEC
    Length: Long
    Balance: Pro-MEC
    CC Says: This map is a vast improvement over Gulf of Oman, but that's not saying much. Like the other beach landing maps, the US really has to have things together to pull off a win. Otherwise, the MEC cap the US back to the beachhead and the game settles into a series of base rape accusations. Perhaps it's because my feeble mind cannot handle more than three flags in play, but this map seems pretty unfocused to me. Focused or not, you can expect a fairly long game every time this bad boy rolls around.

    And there you have it: everything you need to make the ultimate maplist. I know, I omitted a few things, but I seriously doubt that Bi Ming 16 will be the make or break factor. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed the read :D.
    Last edited by Charity Case; 07-11-2008, 01:24 AM. Reason: Crossed my "t"...

  • #2
    Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

    Somebody is bored and cant play PR....

    Nice post!


    • #3
      Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

      Good to see Im not the only one thats been bored lately...

      yeah nice job
      If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks


      • #4
        Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

        Nice work Charity, now if you could just put that into an Excel spreadsheet for me... :icon_lol:
        "I am actually looking forward to watching Jon and Kate plus 8." - Dirtboy


        • #5
          Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

          Alot of those map descriptions made me laugh.
          That was a great post!
          but i'd say operation ghost train is medium, because mestia is usually 30 mins, while ghost train can last a few hours if its a constant war over the bridges.
          And P.S. After having many xfire chats with you, your typing is a bit slow... how long did it take to write that? :P


          • #6
            Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

            Very nice job with those lists. It must have taken a long time.

            With great boredom comes great possibility.
            Waldo II


            • #7
              Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

              Very nice! And don't forget that you can send map list ideas to us admins and we will implement it for you!

              I didn't join a squad once and this guy named Nardini took me into the back room and beat me with a sock of oranges.


              • #8
                Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

                Excellent, excellent post CC!

                | |


                • #9
                  Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

                  Originally posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post
                  Somebody is bored and cant play PR....

                  Nice post!
                  LMAO so true...CC you nerd!
                  ...yet I find myself thinking.... I wish I had posted this! I love it!


                  • #10
                    Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

                    This post made me laugh my pants off. Regarding kyongyani, I recall the USMC having a huge disadvantage in .7. China would rush airdrop and the game would be over in minutes. Anyways, great post Charity! I can always count on you for a good laugh.


                    • #11
                      Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

                      Yep I agree with most of those comments, some commonly repeated tactics and mistakes unfortunately.

                      7 Gates is great if it actually progresses like its supposed to, no map is fun when stalled. UK APC (all of them) need to rush the fort right at the start firing lots of heat, high casualty rate but theres no alternative. Any delay or hesitation is failure :(

                      Sunset - Same with this one. I wish usmc would stop assaulting the city from the lower ground. Rush the mountain road and approach the city from the side, both or three sides even. Its played as the crow flys every time and the north approach is a fail. Being able to tell the future is boring in a game

                      Zatar - hydras head, just send two+ guys to every flag. Dont take the simple attack route to the closest flag (airport) as the crow flys, again :/

                      Its good that PR is challenging in the flag and map situation but its usually usmc who have the onus for clever tactics and they dont succeed usually:row__628:


                      If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.


                      • #12
                        Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

                        Kashan Desert - 64
                        EJOD Desert - 16
                        Jabal al Burj - 64
                        Qwai River - 64
                        Kashan Desert - 16
                        Fools Road - 64
                        Kufrah Oilfield - 64

                        This is part of the current map rotation. This is brutal to those with no more than 2 hours or so to play. The first listed map is at the end of the rotation, so anybody joining then or the map before is in for a long night. EJOD is the only break from long drawn out maps...not that thats a bad least not for me, I love these maps, and being able to play all my favorites (minus EJOD and Kufrah Oilfield) in a row would be amazing..

                        Now I just have to join at the right time ;)


                        • #13
                          Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

                          On Ejod's description you said that the map should be more like Sunset City with one big CP in the city and on Sunset City you said, that it should be more like Ejod since once the flag is captured all there is left is your main base.

                          Contradicting a bit.


                          • #14
                            Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

                            The two city flags could be amalgamated leaving gardens and ruins still. Then there is still desert and gas before it reaches a similar situation to sunset

                            Gas needs more cover, compared to north desert it is hard to defend

                            If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.


                            • #15
                              Re: CC's Guide to Maplist Making

                              Oultawz, reread my post again and you'll see that I say that the Gardens/West City/East City/Ruins CPs should be merged into one big CP, but I don't mention removing the Gas Station or North Desert CPs. Gas Station and North Desert prevent Ejod from becoming like Sunset City, where there's just one CP separating the two bases. Likewise, I say the Sunset should have some CPs like Gas Station and North Desert, which could serve as staging grounds and help focus the action. In any case, these are just my baseless, personal opinions.

                              Pwn3ge, the original post took me quite some time to write, not only because I type slow, but also because I'm pretty picky when it comes to wording and punctuation. But playing PR has trained me well, so I had no trouble sitting at my computer for four plus hours.

                              Thanks for the compliments guys, I'm glad you all enjoyed my post.




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