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  • One minute commanders

    I'm writing here about an increasingly poor trend in PR. More and more we see people going commander just to deploy a spawn and then leaving. I've done it too and I see why it is done, but it is a trend that fosters poor gameplay. There is already a mindset amongst many players that the co is something you just use when you want something. People do not give sit-reps, people do not coordinate.

    When I ask a CO to assign 2 squads that are defending a flag a different role/sector/duty, they often seem baffled by the idea.

    The main cause of the problem imo is that rounds are too long. No one Co's Kashan for 4 hours. I myself stopped co-ing since the games were made so much longer.

    I really hope the devs would do something about this so that the co stops being everybodys bitch. No CO should equal lss at any time. I would like to see that you cannot request ANY kits if you don't have a co.

    I also would like to see a 2 hour time limit for all the maps, or lower tickets for the long maps.
    Last edited by BigGaayAl; 08-06-2008, 09:02 AM.

  • #2
    Re: One minute commanders

    Might I suggest the project reality suggestions and feedback forums?
    But yes, I do hate it when people step in for a minute as CO to put something down. When I SL and a CO appears, I often take him for granted. After pressing V and repeating the same question over and over again, I pull up my caps lock screen only to realize i'm talking to noone... I can understand people on Kashan stepping out of the CO position for an hour or two though.

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    • #3
      Re: One minute commanders

      Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
      I'm writitng here about an increasingly poor trend in PR. More and more we see people going commander just to deploy a spawn and then leaving. I've done it too and I see why it is done, but it is a trend that fosters poor gameplay. There is already a mindset amongst many players that the co is something you just use when you want something. People do not give sit-reps, people do not coordinate.
      Yes many people do not give situational reports in my oppinion you should tell the CO every time something changes. If the commander is getting flooded with information he will probably tell you. For example if my squad is defending a flag and we havent had contact with the enemy for a while and we suddenly run into enemies I tell the commander ' Squad x here, encountered enemies at location y. Situation under control.'
      That way the commander knows what is going on and he can inform the other squad in the area. If everyone gives the commander a sitrep whenever something changes the commander have a much better view of the battlefield and that way some orders that do not make sence could be avoided.

      Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
      When I ask a CO to assign 2 squads that are defending a flag a different role/sector/duty, they often seem baffled by the idea.
      If you try this as a CO many times the squads do not understand what there role is so i have stopped doing this and just give general orders like squad 1 and 2 defend the rest attack flag X.

      Also if people started doing as I have suggested above I know I would have more fun commanding and therefore also do it more often, but since this no one gives sitreps when something happens its not fun commanding because you dont have a clue of whats going on at the front. one map I was commanding a few days ago we lost a flag without ever being told that they had hostiles in the area. I didnt even know they were being attacked. Thats the way most squadleaders act so its not fun to command because you cant command if you dont know what is going on.
      If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks



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      • #4
        Re: One minute commanders

        One minute commanders is something that will be history in PR 0.8.

        Our change here is that you won't need Commander approval to build a Forward Outpost IF your team doesn't have a Commander, BUT you will still need an approval if you DO have a Commander.
        realitymod.com/forum/f245-june-2008/40984-gameplay-deployable-assets.html

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        • #5
          Re: One minute commanders

          Wow kjepper I didn't know that. This change will make things a lot worse. It is going to kill the co role even further and make it more like Arma; no chain of command at all. This is THE very best element in BF2/PR in my opinion. They should do the opposite; not even a RP should be deployable without a co.

          I didn' post this in the PR forums because you just get flamed by the incrowd over there without really being listened to imo. Discussions here are much better, and enough devs read here.

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          • #6
            Re: One minute commanders

            Think about it like this: there are other good reasons to have a good cmdr. What we don't need is the constant shouting in the team chat saying "SOMEONE GO COMMANDER" every 10s until someone against his will goes cmdr just to approve things that aren't thought out and can be very annoying.

            If you have a good cmdr, you will have to follow his plan wrt the logistics, if you don't have one for whatever reason, you can still play the game having decent squad leaders (without some other assets like CAS markers, area attacks, easy coordination between squads, etc). At least the spawn points will be defined, which is a major issue if not.

            Now, there are some other changes to the cmdr role that we didn't talk about yet, so have some faith in the DEV team that want a strong cmdr position like you ;)
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: One minute commanders

              HEY DON't SAY NOBODY COMMANDS KASHAN FOR 4H!!

              i did that once... we leeetet so much... we had US oupost capped after 3h, but then the USMC all kept coming to it, we had a bunker there, and there the game ended with 0 tickets for USMC^^

              -i'll never command so long again, i had an headache after that.

              Life's too short to live it fast.




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              • #8
                Re: One minute commanders

                I doubt we will see any commanders in 0.8 with this change... not sure if this is good or bad because lately I haven't seen many good commanders.

                Love commanding myself and I often step up, but it 's no fun if SL 's don't respond and give you no intel. Maps like Kashan 64 and Qinling 64 shouldn't even be played without a Co... it 's like playing half the game.
                Xfire: Iaintyourm8 | Ingame: GhostDog | Steam: Zuigmijnballen

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                • #9
                  Re: One minute commanders

                  The problem with the CO job is, much like in real life, its a desk job. Not many people want to do Kashan, because it can be summed up in my two sentance play:

                  "Okay, S1, here, S2, here, S3, here..."
                  *Sit, wait, repeat*
                  -Fin

                  The only way one can be a CO to the best potential is not to fight. The only way it (PR in this case) can be as fun as it can be, is if one fights.

                  I had a really big urge to be CO, but was overridden by memories of being ignored. The SLs are as much to blame as the one min COs are. Someone has to do it, but its no fun alone, if you know what I mean... not dirty at all.

                  §Sirsolo

                  P.S. Once I get back, Im COing Kashan for 4....nvm, 2 hours at most. Since we will have won by then.. given good SLs.
                  Last edited by sirsolo; 08-06-2008, 12:44 PM.
                  |TG-Irr|Sirsolo since 18OCT08.

                  Carpe Diem

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                  • #10
                    Re: One minute commanders

                    so that the co stops being everybodys bitch
                    not even a RP should be deployable without a co.
                    That would be great but meanwhile I agree with them removing the requirement for 1 min co for bunkers since he can remove them later if it goes against his gameplan

                    I want the co remote demolish to apply to rally points. That way when co says pull back from the uncappable flag there is no confusion as to when that happens :D
                    They could add a delay to the demolish like the build to reduce overuse or misuse


                    Heres why having a proper commander is good




                    The problem with the CO job is, much like in real life, its a desk job
                    If you can turn the game around, that position should be fairly attractive compared to ending up being repeatedly spawn killed like happens often if your team is a disorganised mess


                    If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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                    • #11
                      Re: One minute commanders

                      No one should be allowed to even move, love around, etc. until a commander is accepted and then if that comm. quits, everyone is frozen again until a new one takes the postion. I realize that this could be abused, but no solution is perfect.

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                      • #12
                        Re: One minute commanders

                        I do think that we are being a little overdramatic.
                        These solutions are comparable to "Very bad men whom started WWs" (Scale wise)

                        Games are going to happen without COs, and everything that is within any game WILL be abused by someone at somepoint. Im sure that we have ALL left and joined the squad to override the cannon warmup.

                        Heres the benefit of having a CO: Bad or Good, we stil have a higher chance to win with one.
                        If hes good, then the answer is obvious. If hes bad, then we can do what is natural, and ignore the fool, do our own thing, and still have Firebases/bunkers.

                        Just.. try to imagine a game freezing every time both teams dont have a CO. Imagine having a tactically placed RP being destroyed by a pubbie CO, because "What I say goes"
                        Imagine the balance issues that a lack of CO would cause for a team.

                        Lastly, as a side note from all Ive been saying, everyone blames a CO for a bad game. Nobody (in the COs shoes) likes that. So maybe the problem is with us? Edit: Neat... there was randomly a Facebook link here... My bad (? Im as confused as you are Creepin)

                        §Sirsolo
                        Last edited by sirsolo; 08-06-2008, 03:30 PM.
                        |TG-Irr|Sirsolo since 18OCT08.

                        Carpe Diem

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: One minute commanders

                          i don't get the facebook link u put there...


                          and the freezing part: bull**** i don't know how wonderful you imagined it beeing or did u think at all?

                          Life's too short to live it fast.




                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: One minute commanders

                            Originally posted by dbzao View Post
                            Think about it like this: there are other good reasons to have a good cmdr. What we don't need is the constant shouting in the team chat saying "SOMEONE GO COMMANDER" every 10s until someone against his will goes cmdr just to approve things that aren't thought out and can be very annoying.

                            If you have a good cmdr, you will have to follow his plan wrt the logistics, if you don't have one for whatever reason, you can still play the game having decent squad leaders (without some other assets like CAS markers, area attacks, easy coordination between squads, etc). At least the spawn points will be defined, which is a major issue if not.

                            Now, there are some other changes to the cmdr role that we didn't talk about yet, so have some faith in the DEV team that want a strong cmdr position like you ;)
                            Well thank you. To be honest I hadn't thought of it like that. Is kind of a 'lesser of two evils' solution you are proposing here, but perhaps it is necessary when faced with the reality of the population/roundlength.

                            I would watch a bush for a whole round for a commander that tries to really organise his team. I love it when a commander doesn't just say "2&3 attack this flag", but something like "2 attack from the west, 3 is in a tough firefight on the east side of the flag and has drawn them away".

                            Commanding is even harder though on the air maps due to the 3dimensional aspect. You have virtually no intel as a CO to understand an incredibly complex situation. I wouldn't know how to go about it on such maps, let alone 4 hours :p.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: One minute commanders

                              Dont worry you will be surprised by more than just "Assets Deployable without Commander" in v0.8..

                              So just wait and see how it all plays out upon release.

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