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  • Commanders

    Hey guys,

    As we feared, there has been a severe shortage of commanders since 0.8 came out. The commander position is much more than asset building, so even though we can build most everything without one, they play a HUGE role in developing strategy, coordination, marking of enemy locations, organizing transports, and more.

    I obviously don't want to command every round I play, so I often ask people why they don't pick the commander position. The overwhelming response I get is that they are new to CO'ing and whenever they try they get yelled at and put-down for being bad. It's a tough job at times, but the only way to get more (and better) commanders is to let them gain experience. So here's my request:

    - If you are interested in being the CO, start on one of the easier maps. At the beginning of the round, make a statement to your squad leaders that you are new and ask for constructive critique, especially if you say or order something that doesn't make sense. Also, the CO obviously needs to be well versed on the rules of TG and 0.8, so read them over several times. If you have questions about the CO screen, then ask (since most of that isn't explained well in the manual and is best learned "on the job").

    - And to all the squad leaders and squad members, I ask that you be patient and helpful when you have a new commander. If you ignore his orders or rip his head off because he's not perfect, then there's a good chance he'll never try again and we'll continue to have a shortage.

    Thoughts/advice/inputs?





  • #2
    Re: Commanders

    Aye, but the fact that it is a much more boring role now isn't helping either. I try when I can, but it's often a very menial job for a game that is supposed to be fun.


    Community, not corporation!

    TG-Irr BetterDeadThanRe(D)

    Xfire-BetterDeadThanRed1

    Irregs PR CO

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    • #3
      Re: Commanders

      Keep in mind that COs are exempt from the SM kick on the server... We appreciate the job they do, and don't want to interrupt any strategy they've put into play.

      3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Commanders

        I used to like being CO, untill 0.7. I haven't really co'ed since. I find it boring on the long maps, and weirdly sitting in the command post irritates me. It's oring enough as is, now I can't even drive a truck somewhere.

        Another problem is feedback and input from SL's. If we want more co's, we must rely less on TS coordination, and more on the co. Many games with good coordination are done on ts now, often keeping the co out of the loop, and not even informing him of the cooperation going on.

        So for the SL's out there;

        -Give sitreps everytime your situation changes, or you change your objective
        -Ask for help/backup in advance, because the co needs time to organise help.
        -Respect your CO even if he is a noob. Even If I get angry and w lose, I always thank the person for going CO and tell him he has done a good Job.
        -At the end of the round, discuss tactics with the CO, tell him what you he might have done better, and what was succesfull.
        -Object if you want, and explain why you object, but obey, any order.

        *
        Suggestions for CO position:
        -Let him out of that box
        -bring logistics timer to zero; havin no co is an advantage for building now
        -Lower area attack time to about 40 minutes
        -Give hime some intel gathering tool. Perhaps like a UAV that only reveals enemy vehicles, but not infantry.

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        • #5
          Re: Commanders

          Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
          I used to like being CO, untill 0.7. I haven't really co'ed since. I find it boring on the long maps, and weirdly sitting in the command post irritates me. It's oring enough as is, now I can't even drive a truck somewhere.

          Another problem is feedback and input from SL's. If we want more co's, we must rely less on TS coordination, and more on the co. Many games with good coordination are done on ts now, often keeping the co out of the loop, and not even informing him of the cooperation going on.

          So for the SL's out there;

          -Give sitreps everytime your situation changes, or you change your objective
          -Ask for help/backup in advance, because the co needs time to organise help.
          -Respect your CO even if he is a noob. Even If I get angry and w lose, I always thank the person for going CO and tell him he has done a good Job.
          -At the end of the round, discuss tactics with the CO, tell him what you he might have done better, and what was succesfull.
          -Object if you want, and explain why you object, but obey, any order.

          *
          Suggestions for CO position:
          -Let him out of that box
          -bring logistics timer to zero; havin no co is an advantage for building now
          -Lower area attack time to about 40 minutes
          -Give hime some intel gathering tool. Perhaps like a UAV that only reveals enemy vehicles, but not infantry.
          This is Project REALITY. Did you know that in reality they have UAV's on standby that reveal everything? Did you know that the commander doesn't sit a Command Post all day and that the CP is destroyable in real life? Give the commander something interesting to do besides order the squads around especially like Kashan. I think I would die commanding for 5 hours on Kashan. I find the commander job extremely...boring. It does not provide action and I do not get that satisfaction a game is supposed to provide.

          Anyway I totally agree for Al. My rant has ended.:icon_eek:

          BTW Tempus: When did that start?

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          • #6
            Re: Commanders

            i agree with al..............let the comm have a uav type function...say on a 10-15 min timer if they stay in comm post...its terrible to comm now
            Gerardnm

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            • #7
              Re: Commanders

              Originally posted by Mr_Fighter_99 View Post
              This is Project REALITY. Did you know that in reality they have UAV's on standby that reveal everything? Did you know that the commander doesn't sit a Command Post all day and that the CP is destroyable in real life?
              1. In Real Life, UAVs are used for scouting missions to locate things such as enemy armor positions and other fortified areas. UAVs don't reveal anything. It is kind of disgusting the way Vanilla Bf2 portrayed the use of the UAV. They are also generally not used over a battlezone (unless it's a UAV carrying ordinance to take out a target).

              2. I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but I'm pretty sure the CO does stay at a fairly guarded Command Post coordinating squads and giving orders. And then the CP moves up as land is taken.

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              • #8
                Re: Commanders

                Originally posted by Mr_Fighter_99 View Post
                This is Project REALITY. Did you know that in reality they have UAV's on standby that reveal everything? Did you know that the commander doesn't sit a Command Post all day and that the CP is destroyable in real life? Give the commander something interesting to do besides order the squads around especially like Kashan. I think I would die commanding for 5 hours on Kashan. I find the commander job extremely...boring. It does not provide action and I do not get that satisfaction a game is supposed to provide.

                Anyway I totally agree for Al. My rant has ended.:icon_eek:

                BTW Tempus: When did that start?
                In reality the CO isn't on the front line hunting enemy squads. In reality the CO isn't driving a support truck around with supplies in the back to take to the front line to build structures.

                In reality the CO is behind his troops, observing the flow of the battle, utilizing the intel provided from communications with his front line troops and controlling the battle.

                I'd say the CO role now is pretty realistic.

                The problem is that most players have the attention span of a gnat and can't stand not being in the action.

                I think we should write a script that looks at chat, finds the first player that complains about not having a CO on their team, and forces that player to be CO. That would rock.

                "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Commanders

                  I havent been CO lately since I just needed to get a feel for how the game plays with all the changes. I am starting to feel that I have a decent understanding of the changes and therefore might start to CO some more. Currently I think the CO represents the HHC of a battalion. Coordinating intelligence, supplies, planning. I can see the advantages of having a CO and therefore I think I will be starting to CO also. now that the whole game have slowed down I think that it is easier to convince squadleaders that they should try and work together instead of doing their own thing.

                  Originally posted by google
                  1. In Real Life, UAVs are used for scouting missions to locate things such as enemy armor positions and other fortified areas. UAVs don't reveal anything and are never used during a battle (unless it's a UAV carrying ordinance to take out a target).
                  I thought the americans had UAVs at company/battalion level. Normally the danish army is behind when it comes to introducing new equipment. The last team to be sent to Astan from the Danish army had UAV section operating 3 Raven UAVs. They are intended to scout ahead of the troops when they are advancing in an urban environment. That is my understanding of how they are to be used. Since I have not been trained to work with these I am not sure how they are incorporated into the Danish units.
                  If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks



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                  • #10
                    Re: Commanders

                    In response to some o the comments on my post.

                    It is certainly realistic that the co is away from the battlefield. When I used to co, I would normally be in my main, prone and looking on the map anyway. It is just that for me, looking at the co screen 2 hours is very dull. You can't even look around and see the sky. I find it boring that you cannot ever see any of the results of the fight in any way. All you see is colored dots moving, or disappearing.

                    This is not a critique or anything. I am just investigating why for me the CO position has lost all it's appeal.

                    It would help a lot if SL's talked a lot to you. It would help a lot if your squads really allowed you to make a battle plan etc. That could be fascinating to me. Yet I never have the feeling as a co that I actually steer or infuelnce the battle in a serious way. You are really just a facilitator, accepting requests, putting things on the map etc.

                    I usually try to make the CO more part of the battle. But it is hard. He gets so little intel from the battlefield. I do not think CO's at the moment ever have decisive influence on the battle outcome or on how it develops.

                    Another aspect is that PR is more and more a KDR-based game. Most fights now are decided by that, and it somewhat downplays the importance of gaining territory, and perhaps too the role of the co, as it focuses more on the individual skil of soldiers/squads.

                    I love RTS games. So I do like playing a game from a top-down perspective, focusing on the big picture. PR co-ing just isn't triggering that interest for the moment, so I will just stick to SL-ing. I wish the CO could in some way be more visually in the battle then just the dull map with dots. It would be great to have a top down view with a fog of war element to it. So that you could see what your squads could see, and not more. I would enjoy setting up a nice attack, If only I could see it happen, and not just see a pile of dots.

                    No sure if I went off topic here. Interesting thread.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Commanders

                      I love to CO when I get info from the SLs. Sometimes it just takes a reminder given to the SLs to give you an update. That is what I do. I even went so far as threatening to report a SL for not giving me info.(and yes I knew he could speak English and had a mic)

                      It would be nice for the CO to have a UAV he could at least see a video of the ground with. No special infrared or sensors just plain visual. Or even have a pilot fly a predator with 2 hellfire on it, that the CO can see with. I could see one of those being used nicely over the bunkers on Kashin.

                      It would also be nice if the CO could talk and give orders to individual squads before the start of the map. It would make the start of the map much more organized


                      A good leader requires both character and strategy. If he is to be without one, let it be strategy. - General Rick Hilliar, Former Canadian Chief of Defence

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                      • #12
                        Re: Commanders

                        Haven't commanded much lately, but in 0.75 my major issue was that most squads seldom followed orders, and if they did, it would take far too long. Whenever I squadlead I generally follow CO orders, even if they may seem slightly stupid at the time, because I know commanders are supposed to have the bigger picture in mind.

                        Having SLs questioning certain orders are alright at times, but when every squadleader thinks he can do the job better, and thus refuses to follow orders, I tend to resign fairly quickly.


                        - having fun on the battlefield, the "TG way"



                        'Not How Many But Where'

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                        • #13
                          Re: Commanders

                          I've found COs without VOIP very in-affective, in my experiences.

                          But, incentive for stepping up to CO could be a nice easy job where you can eat dinner or your meal. Or test some new strategies.
                          |TG|
                          ||||


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                          • #14
                            Re: Commanders



                            this is what happens when liquid is a bored commander :/

                            Life's too short to live it fast.




                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Commanders

                              Originally posted by Tempus View Post
                              Keep in mind that COs are exempt from the SM kick on the server... We appreciate the job they do, and don't want to interrupt any strategy they've put into play.
                              wow, put that on the loading screen I reckon. But is there any rule against a bad CO.

                              I sometimes deliver crates to the front line as a co but generally I dont co now because I dont really want to just look at the map so if a co doesnt command at all they should really resign but Im not sure if theres a rule about that


                              Co could be great fun but only if the team follows through on his decisions and tells him whats happening.
                              Dont troops carry cameras on their heads now, I think some limited access to the satellite view (extreme zoom 50m radius ) might be a good half way house


                              I'd go co if the trailer moved, could fire rockets and construct things like a mobile construction yard :row__572:

                              bring logistics timer to zero; havin no co is an advantage for building now
                              Yes I noticed that unfortunately, it was kinda the reverse last version where co deployed fastest so I whizzed round and dropped 4 bases on the way to the front line :icon_lol:


                              If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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