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A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

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  • A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

    A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

    Last night I was on tacticalgamers on Jabal, first on one team as a CO (on Kashan responsive and mostly effective) then I got teamswitched and somebdoy else became CO. He quickly complained how none of the squads was responsive and my squadleader complained in VOIP how he is a retard and that commanding is a 2 way street and that we shouldnt follow the orders he accepted from the CO

    Well it is not, you want your commander to give good orders, keep him informed. You are about to go somwhere, tell your CO, you want to set up a firebase because you found 2 crates, inform your CO.

    If you have a disagreement with your orders tell your concerns to the CO. If you want to make a suggestion do so. Eventually the CO will respond to your input, eventually he has good reasons to insist on his orders based on info you the SL do not have.

    Even if the commander is new to commanding and makes bad decisions, follow orders anyway. If the team cooperates and loses he might learn from his errors and be a better CO
    In the future, if the team gives him a hard time he will be put off commanding again.

    http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f142...ommanding.html


  • #2
    Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

    AMEN!!!!!!

    Seriously though, good post.



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    • #3
      Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

      Originally posted by Golgo13 View Post
      Even if the commander is new to commanding and makes bad decisions, follow orders anyway. If the team cooperates and loses he might learn from his errors and be a better CO
      In the future, if the team gives him a hard time he will be put off commanding again.
      if you dont understand strategy dont command?

      'you cant fly helis yet, but hop in them and keep at it!'

      'sure take the a10, its ok if we lose it on the runway'

      commander is an asset like everything else. dont waste it. i mean god we had a commander complain that i refused to follow his orders to baserape the enemies main. i refuse to sacrifice my fun and the fun of 5 other people because someone wants to command without taking the time to understand strategy.

      now if its a commander who has a good strat, ill run with it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

        Originally posted by viper759 View Post
        now if its a commander who has a good strat, ill run with it.
        Be careful here. If a commander issues an honest order that does not break any rules, then it is your duty to follow it, even if you don't agree with or understand it.

        If someone does not like or agree with that, they are playing on the wrong server.

        Failure to obey CO orders at TG can and will result in kicks and/or bans.

        3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

          Originally posted by viper759 View Post
          if you dont understand strategy dont command?

          'you cant fly helis yet, but hop in them and keep at it!'

          'sure take the a10, its ok if we lose it on the runway'

          commander is an asset like everything else. dont waste it. i mean god we had a commander complain that i refused to follow his orders to baserape the enemies main. i refuse to sacrifice my fun and the fun of 5 other people because someone wants to command without taking the time to understand strategy.

          now if its a commander who has a good strat, ill run with it.
          ummm.......you might want to pay particular attention to what tempus said, and read over the primer and the SOP's and the rules also in regards to the TG PR Server and the rest of the servers.

          If the commander gives you an order, you will run with it no matter how far he makes you run.

          if that order was on the TG server than baseraping the main isn't allowed so you can also explain to him how TG Don't play that. But other than that if the commander asks you to jump you ask how high?, And if he asks to you to run you say how far? And if he asks you to build, you say Bunker? FOB? Sandbags? Where?
          Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
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          • #6
            Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

            Originally posted by Tempus View Post
            Failure to obey CO orders at TG can and will result in kicks and/or bans.
            please make it harder to get voted in as CO, or not let one be allowed until X percentage of the team from the last map was in. ive had several instances where the following happens.

            'commander we need to build a firebase here so the team can spawn in attack the bunker.'

            'ill approve the build order once you cap the bunker'

            'ive got visual on a squad and apcs at the bunker, we'd need support from armor or hat / lat. none are available right now.'

            'just do it, squad 2 and 4 might be on the way'


            in the above actual conversation , the commander didnt care that my squad would just be running to our deaths. i see it all the time, players are just chess pieces, who cares if they have fun?


            commanders get a rule protection against 'bad' players who question them. players dont get a rule protection against bad commanders.


            Edit: as a quick thought, ive seen in house squads not follow dumb commander orders. if you can convince them, then you could convince everyone else to run to their deaths at will.
            Last edited by viper759; 11-03-2008, 05:44 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

              Originally posted by viper759 View Post
              please make it harder to get voted in as CO, or not let one be allowed until X percentage of the team from the last map was in. ive had several instances where the following happens.

              'commander we need to build a firebase here so the team can spawn in attack the bunker.'

              'ill approve the build order once you cap the bunker'

              'ive got visual on a squad and apcs at the bunker, we'd need support from armor or hat / lat. none are available right now.'

              'just do it, squad 2 and 4 might be on the way'


              in the above actual conversation , the commander didnt care that my squad would just be running to our deaths. i see it all the time, players are just chess pieces, who cares if they have fun?


              commanders get a rule protection against 'bad' players who question them. players dont get a rule protection against bad commanders.


              Edit: as a quick thought, ive seen in house squads not follow dumb commander orders. if you can convince them, then you could convince everyone else to run to their deaths at will.
              In that case, try to explain your situation more clearly, and tell him what will happen if you follow his orders. The commander never knows your exact situation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

                I have read and understand the rules, but as a practical matter in-game, if the CO gives foolish orders he will be ignored.
                I know that SL don't have full situational awareness but if my MEC squad is defending East Beach and I get an order to leave it empty and drive over to West beach ( Jabal ), I will explain that East is the bleed and all the other details, but I won't move until relieved by another force.
                Most of the experienced players I have run into would not obey that order.
                But I have found that truly stupid COs are few and far between and what a CO needs most is feedback from his SL.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

                  Originally posted by Golgo13 View Post
                  Even if the commander is new to commanding and makes bad decisions, follow orders anyway.
                  you can't be serious. i hope you're not.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

                    Well, short of a completely obvious plot to lose the round intentionaly I'd say bad commanding is better than no commanding. Really, is it so hard to follow orders... Most orders lead to a gun battle anyways.

                    Every master plan has its flaws - it's your job as an SL to make gentle suggestions and if they don't get through to the commander you eat the s#$% sandwich and follow the order. I'm not a saint about following what I find is a stupid order, but I do it in time with my personal agenda. IE: the order might be point C instead of point B. But I still do it, or divide the squad up, or something creative to appease the leadership and assess the situation for myself in a reasonable amount of time.

                    Outright refusing an order makes another squad have to pick up the slack and throws the game off worse than if you had just followed it in the first place. Orders usually come up by proximity to the objective. If my squad has to hop a helo and fly 6 or 7 grids over when you were only 2 grids away - that's just sillyness by all accounts.

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                    • #11
                      Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

                      Originally posted by CoronadoSeal View Post
                      you can't be serious. i hope you're not.
                      He is serious, and so are the admins. Following orders is NOT optional. Period.

                      As mentioned above, and 1000 times before, the SL can explain his situation to the CO and see if that helps in the CO's decision making. But the final decision is the CO's.

                      3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

                        Originally posted by viper759 View Post
                        Edit: as a quick thought, ive seen in house squads not follow dumb commander orders. if you can convince them, then you could convince everyone else to run to their deaths at will.

                        Is this part really necessary? Is this going to turn into another IHS flame thread? I've seen enough of those lately. This has absolutely nothing to do with your post.

                        "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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                        • #13
                          Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

                          An in-house squad punched me in the stomach and stole my lunch money. Then it stuffed me in my locker.

                          QQ


                          Haikus are easy.
                          But sometimes they don't make sense.
                          Refrigerator.

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                          • #14
                            Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

                            Originally posted by caffeine View Post
                            An in-house squad punched me in the stomach and stole my lunch money. Then it stuffed me in my locker.

                            QQ
                            Just remember son, all bullies are cowards on the inside!

                            | |

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                            • #15
                              Re: A chain of command is NOT a democracy.

                              in the above actual conversation , the commander didnt care that my squad would just be running to our deaths. i see it all the time, players are just chess pieces, who cares if they have fun?
                              Explain it to your CO as best as you can. 99% of the time they will understand the difficulty of the situation. The other 1% I will use my squad members as chess pieces and move them between the enemy and me. Plus when you are faced with an impossible objective it is your time to shine as squad leader!

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