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  • The cycle

    I am writing this to help define a type of cycle that i feel the best squads (and squad leaders) deploy. In my experience with PR i have found out that the solo vanilla rush does work in some instances, wherein all of a sudden you find your self on enemy rear flank and you take them all down with head shots and grenades while afterwards eliminating their rally. However, that sense of pride and skill that you feel afterwards can really stress the hell out of someone trying to lead a squad. To be fair though, why shouldn't you dispatch from your squads rally and focus upon what YOU need to do to fight THEM, you have experienced your self that working merely as a semi member can cause you to be most effective. Being solo minded, you can walk around towards a flank while the squad laboriously tries to attack from some other angle, going off on your own and ignoring the confusion and clutter of the squads attempted team based play.

    Think about it. Your squad leader is attempting to orchestrate some type of team play, be it setting up in a specific location and watching out towards defined enemy approach points, or maneuvering to attack from a specific direction. To follow the squad leader means you have to become part of what comes down to control... you must let your self be controlled by them.
    There, you are assigned a kit, an order and command, you may be told to "go prone NOW!" and if you don't go prone when the leader asks you to then you find that he might become a bit hostile to you. Next you are engaged by enemies and you find a bit of frustration from the squad leader, not a lot of frustration just a quick comment about how your inability to go prone might have disadvantaged the squad in some manner. In most cases your faith in leadership diminishes, for you would rather attribute the stress which the squad leader feels to his own problems rather then accept a bit of responsibility.
    You might wonder to your self how this person can care so much, it's just a game. You recall the instances in which you have, without any leadership or subordinates other then your self, eliminated entire squads and achieved objects by your self which some squad leader might try to achieve with a whole squad and spend 20 tickets on. Also, how many times have you found that your whole "organized squad" is taken out by 1 or 2 guys on your flank with grenades... LONE WOLF IT and you will survive rather then die within the confusion created by the SL...

    Now, it is my personal opinion that many people do want to work as a team but that they find them selves easily become more lone wolfed out. I have come to find some of the most common "minior insubordinations" and i would like to present a list of them.

    1. Switching kits and not taking requested kit.
    2. Moving the opposite direction of squad leader, moving by ones self to an objective that you project your self without any info to the squad.
    3. lagging your damn ass off and not moving towards the squad leader requested position EXACTLY when he asks you to.
    4. Not withdrawing, rushing forward TOWARDS enemies when the squad leader asks for withdrawal.

    These 4 are the most common and most frustrating for me personally when squad leader.
    I don't really ask for much, i don't want to control every action of a person. However there are a few very key behaviors which inhibit both the squad, and unknowingly to most, the individual. Because of this i have been led to make this post which i hope helps those who find them selves "Lightly insubordinate" to perhaps re think their single mindedness. Please keep in mind that many of the people i squad lead are new to the server or PR, i don't squad lead many regulars... So these following guidelines are usually followed innately with a IHS or some other skilled group, yet they are simple enough that any DAMN Pubbie vanilla wash out should be able to follow...

    What follows is an idea i have about a "cycle" which all successful squads should follow. This cycle was created with two things in mind. The first was to allow nearly any random squad to work together most effectively no matter how familiar or unfamiliar the members are to each other, all the while working to make the squad orders as uncomplicated as possible. Second, to allow the squad members to be able to "unleash" their lone wolf ninja abilities. This second point is key. You wont find me disagreeing that a solo troop can do wonders ( at least in terms of 'flanky flank' and medium range combat, however at long range a solo troop suxs major balls / other genitals). However, the squad leader does have a role to play, and that role at the very base should be to control when the wolves are released. For in truth, you cannot control a wild wolf or any other type of aggressive animal very well.. But you can cage him and bring him to the pits, and the unleash him upon some poor sod he has never met before, allowing him to let loose all that pent up aggression where you want it to go.
    So to recap, We want squad orders to help the squad as best as possible with requiring the least amount of mental work from the members as possible. The second is that when the engagement is about to begin (from stealth) or when the engagement has begun (engaged contacts) we want the members to be able to think for them selves and not have to worry about taking complex commands in such a dynamic situation. A quick side note, a good squad can handle the dynamic orders and when matched with a good SL can follow these to be most effective, but that is asking to much from the average untrained / 'on the verge of insubordination after one death' player.

    So i have created a cycle or routine for PR squads to follow that i hope will allow more pubbie squads to be more effective.

    1. General orders are given from COM / SL. These include, flags to take, positions to move to, objectives such as FB to build or destroy, enemy squads to engage, or places to defend.

    2. Squad then moves with the squad leader to desired location, or holds depending on orders. Squad leader makes sure that all members stay subordinate until the right moment, holding and observing when told to, and taking cover / concealing when told to.

    3. Squad arrives at objective and begins the task, attack, build or what ever.

    4. All squad members regroup upon SL commands and we return to phase 1.
    (this last one is most important, god damn nothing is more annoying then having a squad all spread the hell out and displaced when you want to regroup and re attack)

    It is at phase 3 which we want to let the players "think for them selves more", and it is during phase 3 which we find the most dynamic situations occur, and thus it is hardest to give orders during this time. But, no matter the instance, the squad member must withdraw and regroup when told and not wait 3-5 min until they start moving. As soon as you hear your squad leader ask you to regroup you should be moving towards him / his move marker (never met a female SL yet). If this one rule is not followed then the squad is no more then a spawn point for lone wolves.

    To imagine this cycle being used just think plainly and read the following words.

    Squad leader tells his squad what kits to get and where we are going, going to FLAG A.
    Squad leader tells his squad that we will wait at location B before attacking flag A.
    All members arrive at B and hold.. squad leader surveys.
    Contacts are made, phase 3 is initiated and squad members engage at their own will.
    Enemy squad is eliminated, or friendly squad begins to become overrun, squad leader orders all members to regroup at location C.
    All members arrive at location C.
    Squad leader and members observe and see contacts at a distance.
    Squad leader commands members to engage targets at their own will.
    ...
    ...
    repeat and rinse ( i like a little dirt before i wash up )

    So... There are many reasons to use this cycle the main one being that re grouping the squad is the most effective order that can be given, and also the one that it seems pubbies have the hardest time understanding. I don't care how bad your members suck, or how crappy of a SL you are, if you can group your squad up at a designated location, and then from that location proceed to attack or move or what ever, you will be more effective.
    I would like to ask the entire TG PR community to work on getting people in their squads to practice more regrouping. Let the beasts out to play for a bit and when the objective is complete, or when the beasts actually turn out to be lame ducks who don't realize when they hear enemy fire to their left that there are enemies on their left, then have them REGROUP, and try again.

    It's not hard to regroup... I don't care if you are in the middle of shooting some dude 150 meters away, withdraw and regroup with your squad, define a new angle of approach with your SL, or lay in wait with squad for an ambush to attack enemies who chase you- these things will make you better. All in all, you don't have to keep shooting at enemies when you see them. Be mobile, be creative, and keep it simple. I'm making a new rule for anyone who joins my squad, you have 10 seconds to start regrouping with SL When SL asks for regroup, and if you don't start moving to SL within that 10 seconds without a damn good reason you will be removed without any comment other then to regroup with squad leader when asked.
    Personally, i don't care to much about kits... WE must help teach the PR community how effective regrouping can be.

    Imagine a field, a empty open field. The squad is a ball, a ball composed of other smaller balls. This ball moves about the field and then at certain locations the smaller balls detach, they come out and move towards a common direction upon their own path. After some time all the balls regroup at some position and make a dense squad ball again. This squad ball moves to another location and then again, the smaller balls come out of it and head towards a common direction...
    Rinse and repeat.

    http://www.makingakilling.co.uk/home.html
    listen close
    to the rat-tat-tat-
    as the metal flies,
    we should know as fact:
    that unearthly demons
    are part of our pack,
    and as we engage you
    in battle we pass.

  • #2
    Re: The cycle

    Wow, that is a ton of text...

    Squad leading for me is a fluid experience that is based on squad members skills, presence and communication. The basic premise the Army teaches - shoot move and communicate. For me, you check with the commander for oders, depending if he is alive or not, and move on. Recently, there is a lack of that. From there, you make sure the squad stays together and cohisive, and you move out.

    Target, move, engage and move again. That is it.

    More complex maneuver eludes the man making corrections on the field and fighting to the win.

    I think leadership on the field is something you cannot quantify or qualify - it is in the moment and with the value of good leadership and good squad members.

    T
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The cycle

      "Target, move, engage and move again. That is it."

      what i am saying is that you cannot move and target if you squad is spread out 300 meters. you need to have the squad at least 100m of SL in orde.r to "target"... What is the use of having 6 squad members if only 3 of them can look towards the target
      listen close
      to the rat-tat-tat-
      as the metal flies,
      we should know as fact:
      that unearthly demons
      are part of our pack,
      and as we engage you
      in battle we pass.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The cycle

        I like your "ball" analogy, I try to think of my squad as a square/rectangle... so that people cover the sides appropriately. When I stop my squad (to re-evaluate an approach, talk to CO, drink, etc) I wish my squad members would each look in different (N,S,E,W) directions so that all angles are covered.

        Any of u guys ever tried using a "scout" out on point? It has to be someone that understands the SL's movement patterns and can pick out a smart approach to a target.

        -I was playing Mestia as Brits a few days ago, & asked a guy to lead us "covertly" to the west tower...and the moron connects the dots from our main to the west tower...not even considering that the enemies inside the tower could see us 400m away and again at 100m away...all because he was too stupid to lead us there under the constant cover of the trees. "Situational awareness" seems to be something you just understand or you don't...and the people that DON'T get it, don't read these forums unfortunately.
        |TG-X|WAREHOUSE

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The cycle

          interesting analysis, especially the emphasis you place on regrouping after a defeat, which requires squad leader charisma more than anything if the members happen to be new. I don't know if overall success is that complicated though - get mildly intelligent, communicative people in your squad, define your overall objective or purpose as a unit, and then let the tactics fall on your player's experience. It's almost always counter productive to micro-manage the men in your squad beyond the "move here" "you three flank that" kind of thing.

          yea, the new guys make mistakes (we all do, me more than others maybe) but they learn; someone always says after the heat blows over "hey man, we need compass direction and distance or relative location when you identify a threat" or "don't fire grenade launchers in close spaces at targets 40m away" etc.

          Originally posted by O=T-M-A-N=O View Post
          More complex maneuver eludes the man making corrections on the field and fighting to the win.
          T
          Stay together, communicate, don't give up.

          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The cycle

            Originally posted by w.WAREHOUSE View Post
            Any of u guys ever tried using a "scout" out on point? It has to be someone that understands the SL's movement patterns and can pick out a smart approach to a target.

            -I was playing Mestia as Brits a few days ago, & asked a guy to lead us "covertly" to the west tower...and the moron connects the dots from our main to the west tower...not even considering that the enemies inside the tower could see us 400m away and again at 100m away...all because he was too stupid to lead us there under the constant cover of the trees. "Situational awareness" seems to be something you just understand or you don't...and the people that DON'T get it, don't read these forums unfortunately.
            In light of this post and what T-M-A-N said i would like to rephrase my self, or in other words evolve the idea. It is important first to know where i am coming from and it relates to the team stacking thread and issue slightly, but only in ways which are good.

            First, a small story of little billy. (you can skip this if not interested)
            I was firsted introduced to BF-2 back when vanilla was in beta. I played some MMORPG and was itching for FPS, so i somehow came across bf-2. I played the beta and loved the map, it felt like a mix between CS and ghost recon and i loved it. I stopped playing the beta because my computer sux bad back then and then one day i saw the game was released, i got it considering that i had recently purchased a new computer (a main reason being to play bf-2). I played it at first, random servers, this and that until i was familiar with each map. However, i soon noticed three things.
            1, there was absolutely no team work used, it was quite literally a mob rush with SL as spawn, which was more like an unconscious fact to the SL, sometimes he just noticed that others spawned near him and it was a welcome sight most of the time.
            2, people really sucked at using assets, no over exaggerating this, from tanks and APC to helicopter and jets, most folk really sucked big time, they were no match and could be outsmarted easily.
            3, No one would respond to voip or even chat unless it was **** talking, and i mix this with people were real courteous dicks (TKing / hogging and not being rude).

            So, i was somewhat up set. Soon though, i found the TG server and i could tell the difference, the huge difference. I had SL who were talking on the mic when i joined their squads! There was a rule for assets! i knew instantly this helped organize things and that this rule existed to help tactical gameplay! AHh yes it was good.
            However, fate seemed not to shine on little billy during these times. On one map i made a spec ops mission into the enemy main to steal an APC, i got the apc was was running and saw an AT dude and shot him... Jets start to try to bomb me but i made it out of the main, i started shooting at them. Then i hear someone say in chat that i am camping and i get banned. So i stopped playing on TG. After this, i found a similar server called FULLCONTACTWAR, i joined here and noticed a difference as well. This server was primarily composed of extremely good players on one side, and a few good mixed with noobs on the other. I loved it! The team stacking was EPIC, i loved it for real. I was getting my ass kicked, hit from places i didn't even see it coming. I was not very social at this point in time and i did not talk on the mic much (except with milo bomb... we would sing power rangers and pwn everyone and our squads mates would wonder how gay we were and then see our awesome killing ratios and they had to believe in the magic) so i was in my self led to try to fight these superior players whom dominated the other team so bad it was not even funny.
            One of the first things that i employed to become better was the use of the defense markers, i noticed they were hardly ever used, hell back in the begging i seriously never found SLS who would put markers on any place except flags... I knew these markers were important, so i thought about it. I started running cover fire squads where i would sit back and put markers on buildings and spots and just shoot my endless 50-cal ammo and tank rounds or chopper rounds. Back then, you could spot enemies at a distance simply my attempting a spot, i would then put a marker on them and start shooting... Yes... No one understood what i was doing, people tried to get my kicked and all for mis using asset. These markers were so underused though i felt like i had some good information to bring to the FULLCONTACTWAR community. So i joined their forums. I made a post about how good i thought the players on the server were and how i was glad to have some challenge to learn to become better! I was always on the underdog team it seemed. One thing about this server is that it was very stacked by people who were in similar clans and played together nearly every day, they naturally worked as a real squad due to the friendships they developed. I wanted to somewhat implement this with random pubbies, so i knew i needed to change the way i squad lead. I started running an BILLY INF squad and teaching tactics to people. "Stick together" "move to markers" "when i put an attack order it means there are enemies there" and these types of things. It was an anomaly but seemed to catch on. In bf-2 it seemed like squad members were always "closer" then they are in PR, but this is because of the 15 sec respawn and the smaller maps. However all in all i feel like over the year and a half (add a little more) that the game changed, many people started using tactics (same squad attacking same flag... asset based squads), i became interested in the helicopter and sort of lost my self in that, hell i remember playing before people realized that you could move the missile. I became good with a gunner and solo gunning, it was fun. I would use markers to mark flags and strafe them at a distance with rockets, all that fun. Once i started flying the chopper the began to become very.. standardized. After you play all of the roles in as many ways is possible you start to see the limits of the game, the limits of use. The behavior begins to become standardized within a small field of variance and every time an instance occurs you have seen it before... subtle details and probability helps shape the rest (only retrospectively! In the moment the men count!). I then heard about "project reality", the main draw towards it was that i read that assets took a long time to spawn and that there was more teamwork. I tried it out and... well... the rest is history sort of... One thing i noticed though was that there was so much more room then bf-2 for tactics to work, in fact i still believe that even as the player base and game stands now we have only scratched the surface in terms of organized tactical team play. PR is a great game as a sport in my eyes. The Squad Play is very tight, yet it still has a "CS" feel to it wherein it feels kinda sporty, fast paced enough to work easily with and slow enough for the range of tactical possibilities to be quite large.

            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Thats the end of the story of little billy, and this is just to give you a slight perspective of where i am coming from.

            My main goal is the following. Ignore the team stacking issue, realize that it is a bar to compare ones own action towards and that the challenge can be used to increase ones skill and learn! We are not here as leet haxers to dominate the noobs, there is so much room to learn in this game, from the social aspect of the squads to the game engine and play styles.
            The second is to find a set of simple rules that can be used when leading a squad the will help non regulars and people new to PR work togethor as a good squad.

            People who come to PR as usually very good at BF-2 i believe. As was said before, i think the TG server is full nearly all day because of the skilled players, people know they are going to get some intense combat here and the challenge lures them. I keep this in mind when considering what to expect out of the random pubbie or inexperianced player on the unstacked team. So i know these guys don't suck at CQC, i know they can take cover and shoot and flank and do everything that a squad leader could ever ask of them, but i also know that they DO NOT know how to do this on command nor in an orchestrated way.
            My thinking leads me to believe that if these players simply allow the squad leader to lead them into position, and then once in that position they can move as they will, that they may be used as an asset and slowly learn how to work as a team better. It's not asking much.

            I want to help people understand that the squad leader is not just another player, in PR situational awareness is a key issue! and it is this awareness which the SL is used for. We want to allow their awareness to help lead the squad in a way which he believes will allow the squad to be effective. If we don't want to serve him then we should not join the squad.
            The leader of course cannot be qualified or quantified, but a general rule of thumb can be used which will allow even poor leaders and inexperianced squads to be more successful.
            The squad leader should be used as the path towards an objective, and the definer of objectives. In an experienced squad he should also be allowed to choose plan of attack and other more complex commands (such as getting the squad to each watch a specific direction when holding, and to dispatch scouts to find path ways, things which i would love to ask of my squad but a pubbie they want results every time, and to do this habitually will annoy them and cause them to start to become insubordinate). However, i am not talking about squad leader from the perspective of someone who leads people they are very familiar with and can rely upon to follow this orders. The regular random who might not be a member of the forums, or may just be an inexperienced player whom is new to the server or not, it is these people that need to be led also. So i look on the map, VERY frequently, (like every 3 to 4 seconds in some cases) i watched how squads move. One of my favorite things to do is watch what happens to squads. I see them moving, there they are in a line, i look at who is in the squad and i see the people. Then i watched them change their movement, they obviously become engaged. They become engaged and they all start to spread out, they start to become confused and wanting to rush towards where the enemy is, they loose sight of the team aspect and while there are enemies near they seem to loose and sense of organization they had. So i want to counter this behavior with a simple rule of thumb to trust your SL to lead you to a place to attack and to lead you away from an engagement and regroup and re-attack, and to follow, if anything, this one rule of doing it when he requests.

            So to conclude... There are many good players on both teams here, many good SL and squads as well. However, once these games become played frequently and standardized we start to realize that new players and inexperianced people need a base to start from. I want to find a way to define a very simple set of rules that could be part of that base, simple rules at the individual squad level. This cycle is an attempt to find these rules, i have reduced it to three phases.

            1. Understand the plan given to you. (take flag, engage rally / FB, deep flank)
            2. move with your squad leader to his requested position.
            3. engage contacts with your own will and regroup on SL when requested.

            I feel that these are three guidelines that no SL is out of order to ask of his mates. If a squad member wont follow these simple three rules at all times, then they are most likely having an attitude or simply too inexperianced to be part of a squad.

            Keep in mind this is no attempt to quantify squad leading into a set of routines, it is only to paint a picture of a pattern that naturally emerges when a squad is doing good. It just so happens that the best squads are those in which the individual will of each member creates a synergism that they are familiar with. But you will notice if you check the map as much as i do that they follow the above pattern (watching some of the IHS inf squads is good training). Now, to get less fortunate individuals in line there are some key things we have to ask of them, and these three phases are something which they should remember. Use the pattern as a guideline, understand that a squad leader will let you think for your self and act on your own will MORE if you simply allow him the opportunity to control a small portion of your actions. Move with your squad leader, engage on your own when the **** goes down, regroup with your squad leader. You will find that following these rules will allow the SL to use the squad members more effectively. For example, a contact 400 meters away behind hills and hills of cover is not very important to a group of people who are down in the woods about to engage in CQC.. So when we allow the squad to regroup and attack from angels defined by the SL then the information within the squad becomes relevant to all people in it. We need to keep the information as relevant to the whole squad as possible, when you start having separate "lines of relevant Intel" flowing in a squad it starts to create insubordinate. However a good squad of course can use this to their advantage, with separate groups acting as dispatchements.. .buts thats a bit too much to ask of a pubbie, because once they die any semblance of tactically working they might have shown will be shot.

            Follow your SL to the position to approach target from, approach target on your will, regroup on SL when asked. Keep the squad as one unit, not 2, 3 or 6 separate groups.

            I encourage any novice squad leaders who might want to give it a try, attempt to squad lead and attempted to create this pattern. Don't worry about knowing the best place to attack from or what kits to take or fire teams or any of that... just learn to group the squad up and unleash it and then regroup it.

            I feel if we can really standardize this base with the newer / more inexperianced players that the skill for everyone on the server can start to increase. Once the squad is together, the lessons of situational awareness can begin to be taught, and that is quite a different topic! and one that is far more complex then these simple move commands.

            As an ending note i must say one thing. Some people are better then you at killing... Some people are smarter then you and better at hunting and stalking you. Portables squad comes to mind... Realize that by your self you cannot take these squads down, and that within your own squad the failure of that might not be due simply to the squad leader sucking... your own skills and crappy situational awareness and sheer stupidity might come into play.. Sound is the big one, learn to recognize distance and direction of sound and your skill will raise drastically.
            listen close
            to the rat-tat-tat-
            as the metal flies,
            we should know as fact:
            that unearthly demons
            are part of our pack,
            and as we engage you
            in battle we pass.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The cycle

              Originally posted by Paine View Post
              interesting analysis, especially the emphasis you place on regrouping after a defeat, which requires squad leader charisma more than anything if the members happen to be new. I don't know if overall success is that complicated though - get mildly intelligent, communicative people in your squad, define your overall objective or purpose as a unit, and then let the tactics fall on your player's experience. It's almost always counter productive to micro-manage the men in your squad beyond the "move here" "you three flank that" kind of thing.

              yea, the new guys make mistakes (we all do, me more than others maybe) but they learn; someone always says after the heat blows over "hey man, we need compass direction and distance or relative location when you identify a threat" or "don't fire grenade launchers in close spaces at targets 40m away" etc.
              Paine, i know i present my self in a terse way, but if you cannot see through this what i am saying is exactly as you have said. I am in no way advocated complexity, i am advocating that "move here" and "you guys attack" thing is the base level which should be easily enforced. I am not advocating micromanagement at all. Not sure where you are getting this. As for mildly intelligent players, yes i feel most people are actually quite intelligent in PR- however! They will still get insubordinate once the hunting starts... Durring this hunting they need to trust that the SL knows how to keep them alive and fighting, they need to regroup on him when requested.
              listen close
              to the rat-tat-tat-
              as the metal flies,
              we should know as fact:
              that unearthly demons
              are part of our pack,
              and as we engage you
              in battle we pass.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The cycle

                I need an advil now, but I like your posts :)
                |TG-X|WAREHOUSE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The cycle

                  Natural Reader is your friend!

                  http://www.naturalreaders.com/

                  (only if you get the pay version)
                  listen close
                  to the rat-tat-tat-
                  as the metal flies,
                  we should know as fact:
                  that unearthly demons
                  are part of our pack,
                  and as we engage you
                  in battle we pass.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The cycle

                    Originally posted by billyinorganic View Post
                    Paine, i know i present my self in a terse way, but if you cannot see through this what i am saying is exactly as you have said. I am in no way advocated complexity, i am advocating that "move here" and "you guys attack" thing is the base level which should be easily enforced. I am not advocating micromanagement at all. Not sure where you are getting this. As for mildly intelligent players, yes i feel most people are actually quite intelligent in PR- however! They will still get insubordinate once the hunting starts... Durring this hunting they need to trust that the SL knows how to keep them alive and fighting, they need to regroup on him when requested.
                    aye, well taken.
                    Stay together, communicate, don't give up.

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The cycle

                      If you can type that fast, you should write an ebook or something :D


                      In my experience with PR i have found out that the solo vanilla rush does work in some instances, wherein all of a sudden you find your self on enemy rear flank and you take them all down with head shots and grenades while afterwards eliminating their rally.
                      What often works well is some random guy attacking the enemy from behind them, from a direction nothing to do with a flag, chokepoint, etc.

                      Most games, people will be walking towards a flag or cache and just looking in the same direction, turning ninja on them really shouldnt be hard and I advise headshots and grenades for concealing your true direction of fire as long as possible


                      what i am saying is that you cannot move and target if you squad is spread out 300 meters. you need to have the squad at least 100m of SL in orde.r to "target"
                      What they need is a common unifying point of fire. An attack marker should work, you dont all have to fire from the same point to be coordinated

                      I think you are refering to calling out degrees but if you just say north of squad leader 50m they can just work out where the enemy is themselves.


                      I like the idea of your cycle, the group should coordinate around a point. So long as they can avoid shooting each other then even random squad members can be usefull, as they close on that point it should be highly effective

                      I think the analogy of a fishing net being thrown into the water then drawn back in works?


                      [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fecy0Z87NUM[/media]

                      vs


                      http://www.youtube.com/v/8iC4C6NGPgg


                      If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The cycle

                        I often like to use a boxing type analogy when attacking a target particularly when you have split into fireteams of 2 or 3 members. Each team is a fist or style of punch. For example your face on element, i.e. the squad that is 'contact front' engaged is your jab. This team constantly 'jabs' at the opponent head on at range, keeping their head down and 'guard up'. Your second team is your right or left hook, flanking to hit them in an unprotected part of the 'body' of their squad. In a protracted firefight or assault it is often necessary to employ several feints and dummy flanks to break down your oppents defences. For example you may hit them head on at range to get them to keep their head down and effectively tie them up. You then feint a flank left by sending a couple of guys to probe that flank, maybe toss a grenade or two. They then with draw and repeat a commited assault from the right. All the time this is happening you are forcing your opponent to shift his stance and position in the ring as it were, thus exposing more vulnerabilities. You can continue the analogy into 'footwork' i.e. squad formation and movement. I find the simlpest most visually effective methods work best when tring to describe these tactics verbally.


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                        • #13
                          Re: The cycle

                          Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee, right Wick ??
                          ;)

                          |

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                          • #14
                            Re: The cycle

                            I like what you are saying Wickens, it is this type of imagery that PR is causing me to see and i am glad that you are seeing it also.
                            However, in a squad which is not willing to use fireteams or incapable the best thing to do is to get them into position and then let them handle it from there. Otherwise they are going to attempt the SL plan I (fireteam or what not) and when they start to die get frustrated because they are unfamiliar with the tactic.

                            As to Saber, i liked that video with the foot ball however that is not what i was speaking about entirely. What i was trying to describe is that the squad MOVES like that, close together to a certain point, after which the squad is released to proceed as they will towards some contact. So they would be bunched up and then when ordered they would begin to move and spread out in a line, like the fishing net. You hold the fishing net in a bunch before your throw it.

                            I know what i said might seem a bit complex but it is in fact really simple. The squad moves together until contacts are made or the destination point is reached, and then the squad members proceed as they wish to engage the contact or accomplish directive. However i must say that in long range maps like Kashan this does not always work well for it seems that inexperianced players don't know **** about cover. My personal approach is either to move in stealth very close and then engage, or sit far far back and observe so that i can provide intel for my guys out there fighting. I like to keep at least 1 other guy near me.

                            Yes.... having one part of the squad cover fire while the other flanks works very will, however if there is a hidden enemy element then you must realize that they will probably flank your suppression element. It is all quite interesting, i would like to map a custom map to do some fire-team/ assualt / secruity experiments. The map would be divided up into different regions representing different types of environments. One part would be all flat, one would be flat with cover like buildings, the next would be slightly hilly with trees, the last would be larger hills.

                            g;day
                            listen close
                            to the rat-tat-tat-
                            as the metal flies,
                            we should know as fact:
                            that unearthly demons
                            are part of our pack,
                            and as we engage you
                            in battle we pass.

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                            • #15
                              Re: The cycle

                              Billy great posts, though i have one question:

                              Do you think this Cycle will be occurring more on a monthly basis, or do you expect it to gain speed and occur ever 1 or 2 weeks? I just want to know so I am prepared.
                              Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                              Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                              Level I HazMat Technician
                              NYS EMT-B
                              Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

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