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AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

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  • AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

    I'll try and be diplomatic about this but I have noticed a massive increase in the use of anti armour weapons against infantry in the last couple of weeks, often by TG regulars or at least by regular visitors. Can we try and stamp this out a bit guys. Whilst it's no longer against the rules to use heavy anti tank weapons against infantry it used to be, the rule was dropped as I understand it because it was so difficult to enforce. That doesn't mean we should all start doing it. C,mon that sort of lame, cheap tactic is the stuff of lower grade vanilla style servers. People come to TG for the mature, tactical game play. Most people I know that play regularly really dislike that sort of thing, lets not sink to that level if we can help it. If you see someone in your squad doin it remind them about the primer and if they are doing it regularly report them under the realism rule.

    Sorry its a pet peeve of mine and the last few days have been horrendous.



  • #2
    Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

    You think that's bad? I've played some games where almost EVERYONE had a friggin rocket launcher, and there were only infantry on most of those maps. I didn't stay playing on those games for long. I do agree with what you've said.
    The beatings will continue untill morale improves.

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    • #3
      Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

      I've seen more of this now that the CO trucks can drop big ammo crates. Cheap kills unless fired at a bunker/house... but I sure do love watching snipers get blasted by heavy anti-tank rounds! :)
      |TG-X|WAREHOUSE

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      • #4
        Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

        I think the restrictions on the hat are enough that if I can I'll take the shot, it wouldnt be my primary purpose but just for honesty I'll admit I have done it and same with rpg or more so even

        If its considered too easy to obtain a hat rocket maybe its cost could be bumped up in some way so that only 2 hat rockets per crate were available maybe.
        That way it wouldnt be a case of players fighting with one hand behind their back to qualify as honourable.

        A sniper should be able to counter a hat kit I think or probably a few other things


        Insurgents over using rpg will inevitably lead the allies back to the source of their ammo, the cache. So long as theres a reasonable balance in the game, Im happy enough with that situation


        If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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        • #5
          Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

          Insurgents using the RPG's is ok in my book as they are usually outguned on most maps to some degree, at least asset wise and well they are naughty insurgents. It's the persisitent use of conventional forces heavy anti tank weapons on infantry that I think goes against what TG is about. It's cheap, not realistic and degrades the level of gameplay.


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          • #6
            Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

            Cover = no AT death

            Though I do understand where you are comming from.
            doYouEvenLuftwaffe

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            • #7
              Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

              Check out this declassified AAR of USMC operations in Afghanistan.
              http://www.michaelyon-online.com/the...e-mountain.htm

              Let me just pull out one of the more interesting points of data on slide 25:
              Two vehicles were attacked with volleys of RPGs when they established a support by fire position. At this point the enemy massed to over 250 fighters. The platoon was engaged by 12-14 PK machineguns and over 100 RPGs.
              So at least when it comes to Insurgency maps, I think it's quite reasonable to use AT weapons in large numbers vs. Infantry.


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              • #8
                Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

                Granted, it's frustrating being blown into oblivion by a rocket, but to me it's not different than being killed by a HEAT round from a tank, an arty strike or a .50 on a jeep. It's all part of the game.

                Here are some situations where anti-tank weaponry is used to great effect against infantry in real life:

                Die, sniper, die!


                Killing the bad guys in a firefight


                Up close and personal - javelin vs. taliban


                Firing a javelin on a taliban mg position


                EDIT: Here's an AT-4 being used against Taliban infantry in Afghanistan

                There are a ton more (watch Ross Kemp in Afghanistan to see the javelin spam used by the British there), and I realize these are javelins, but the point is that it is not un-realistic to use AT weaponry on infantry - it is common practice.

                "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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                • #9
                  Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

                  the LAW (the American L-AT) which was first implemented I believe in the Vietnam War, served as both a weapon against lightly armored vehicles, and also as a way to destroy pillboxes and it was also used against infantry.
                  Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                  Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                  Level I HazMat Technician
                  NYS EMT-B
                  Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

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                  Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
                  RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
                  Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
                  Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
                  We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

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                  • #10
                    Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

                    If it is possible to make every heavy AT rocket fired to cost one ticket, it may make some think twice. Of course it would also mean more anger towards players who are not proficient or irresponsible.
                    |TG-12th| Namebot

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                    • #11
                      Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

                      These are often isolated incidents where heavy firepower is used to dig out an entrenched enemy where more conventional weapons have failed. If someone can find footage of a UK infantryman firing an anti armour weapon 10-15 times in a row against infantry without once attempting to use his primary weapon, his rifle, then I will ring the MOD for the video of his court martial. The cost would be astronomical and they would be held to account for it.

                      It is a comparison of convenience I am afraid. Doing it once in a round is perhaps understandable and justifiable, doing it repeatedly with no intention of using your primary weapon or using the AT weapon in question for it's primary purpose is lame, indicative of a poor player who happily uses cheap tactics. I am disappointed that my argument is falling on deaf ears to an extent. Amazing to think we used to have this as a rule not long ago, how times have changed.


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                      • #12
                        Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

                        Originally posted by d1sp0sabl3h3r0 View Post
                        it is not un-realistic to use at weaponry on infantry - it is common practice.
                        qft.
                        Before the effect one believes in different causes than one does after the effect.

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                        • #13
                          Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

                          I hate getting killed by rockets, but I do like killing with them. Better yet, kill the guy with the rocket and take his kit so he can't do it again.

                          Sometimes you have to use what you've got, and a gun is a gun, even if it shoots a rocket, imo.

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                          • #14
                            Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

                            Honestly I have haven't been HAT sniped in what seems like months. Doesn't seem like it's a common thing to me?
                            |TG-X|Turkish

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                            • #15
                              Re: AT vs Infantry, killin' the TG way

                              Wicks, that is simply not fair. It is not falling on deaf ears.

                              The preponderance of the evidence is that AT weapons are used on infantry on a daily basis. We promote playing as realistically as possible, yet we wish to create and enforce rules that restrict player's ability to utilize the weaponry in the game because it is deemed "cheap"?

                              Now, before anyone starts with the "there goes disposable again, why is he an admin" line of thought, I ask you not to read between the lines and put words in my mouth. There are instances where tactics utilized in the game are cheap and unrealistic and need to be monitored and restricted. Tactics such as driving around trying to run people over. If people were to look at the reality of things, consider the damage done to a vehicle when it strikes a 200lb object going 30mph. How many times can this be done and still have an operable vehicle? Running people over in a forklift? Please.

                              However, why are we looking to restrict usage of a weapon against specific targets? The developers of PR have already made H-AT more difficult to use against infantry, why are we looking to add more restrictions? As far as spamming goes, watch those videos. A majority of the time those troops are firing from a well defended and supplied position. They have access to more than one rocket and they use them.

                              However, again, the use of AT weaponry against infantry is not unrealistic. When real soldiers are in a fight for their lives, I'm pretty certain they don't give a crap how much each one of those missiles cost, they're going to use as many as they need to to destroy the enemy and protect themselves and their friends. There isn't one instance in any of those videos where an officer is yelling at the troops not to fire the rocket because it costs too much.

                              And again, why is it such a big deal to be killed by AT? Can anyone explain why this is so much worse than being shot by a sniper, blown up by an IED, killed by an enemy tank or apc, or killed by an attack helicopter hovering out of sight above the clouds? The end result is going to be the same - you are dead. There isn't much you can do as a grunt with a rifle against the tank or attack chopper, but you can put one between the eyes of the AT guy before he shoots you.
                              Last edited by disposableHero; 02-12-2009, 02:43 PM. Reason: removed some redundency

                              "You milsim guys are ruining the game."

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