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  • What do you need in a Commander?

    Today I played commander twice, and I got to thinking "What does a SL need from me? When am I too annoying?"

    So I guess I'll pose a few questions and mebbe get a few suggestions so that the quaility of commanding on TG improves overall.

    What do you need/want from the commander? (information, orders, etc)

    What don't you need/want from the commander?( how much talking, too many orders, spelling with mine markers, etc)

    How much should TeamSpeak be used with in game VOIP while commanding?

    Are there maps where a commander is utterly useless?

    I'm still trying to find my niche in the game, and it feel like commanding might be a decent fit for me. I don't try and force the squads to do what I want, I instead inform them of what I need, what other squads need, and encourage them to ask me for support, or even suggest tactics themselves. The Good Lord knows I'm not near the best player out there, but I know I'm good at coordination, so I figured Commander is a decent role fer me to fill.



    Thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: What do you need in a Commander?

    What do you need/want from the commander?
    To bring the big picture and it's relevance to the indivual squads, and conversly, to manage and compartmentalize/prioritize the big picture and keep it from distracting squads.

    What don't you need/want from the commander?
    Specific orders unless the round is in danger of being lost. Non-critical chat.

    How much should TeamSpeak be used with in game VOIP while commanding?
    Very little if not critical, if you have the time to type it, use that instead.

    Are there maps where a commander is utterly useless?
    Fast maps, Inf maps (sunset city for example) consider my first point. If the "big picture" is not to big for a SL to handle, then a Commander ends up being less efficent.
    Big maps like kashan and Kolzeg need commanders, the map is too big for a SL to keep tabs on. The best maps for commanders are maps where squads can be given an area of responsibility and let the comm worry about the flanks.

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    • #3
      Re: What do you need in a Commander?

      What do you need/want from the commander? (information, orders, etc)
      All enemy movement that he knows of, and information about what the squads around my squad are doing (ie: if my squad will be on our own). Relaying support request (logistics, CAS or armour support).

      What don't you need/want from the commander?( how much talking, too many orders, spelling with mine markers, etc)
      Keep it relevant for the squad you are talking to, if you are talking about how the squads suck and cant even do something simple you should be shutting up.

      How much should TeamSpeak be used with in game VOIP while commanding?
      As much as possible since its better then in game VoiP so everything you would use the all squads key for use teamspeak.

      Are there maps where a commander is utterly useless?
      As above
      If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks



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      • #4
        Re: What do you need in a Commander?

        What do you need/want from the commander? (information, orders, etc)
        Ballz - at least the willingness to give orders, Which can be hard becuase we have a lot of squad leaders used to doing it on there own. Just remember your the head honcho, but remeber to be flexible and move on the fly. As far as comms go rember I've got people talking to me so please first thing out of your mouth I want to hear is "comms to 1 or comm to squad 2" ect.

        What don't you need/want from the commander?( how much talking, too many orders, spelling with mine markers, etc) Never ever ever use all viop unless your wanting to talk to all the squads.

        How much should TeamSpeak be used with in game VOIP while commanding?
        Depends on the situation, I would say always hop on teamspeak and see if your team is using coordination channels. Alot of times even though someone isnt in the commanders slot, There is usually a defacto commander on TS if were heavly coordinated EX. Cougar

        Are there maps where a commander is utterly useless?
        None always usefull I would use my above statment as a good guide to when commanders are not needed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What do you need in a Commander?

          Let me preface this by saying you did a good job yesterday and I'm glad you stepped up and that you're starting to enjoy the commander role, as I feel there's always a lack of one around (or a decent one).


          What do you need/want from the commander? (information, orders, etc):

          For information, I prefer if you have coordinates of any enemy armor or troops that aren't marked (though you should mark them). I find that if the commander is marking the information passed in on the map, that it helps out with reshaping how my squad attacks a certain area. However, I don't use them all the time due to them being out-of-date. So a confirmation of whether or not an area is clear and to keep markers up to date would be nice.

          For orders, a good sense of who's defending and who's attacking can go a long way. Additionally, if more than one squad is attacking, try to have them attack from different flanks and to issue which flank the squad is taking (I always do this in my squad regardless, but it'd be nice to hear the commander organize it). Don't try and micromanage that order though; tell them the side and let the SL manage it from there. Also, if you can provide transport for any squad, tell them someone is underway and set waypoints up for where they are going. I always appreciate when I hear the commander say "so and so is on their way to pick you up." instead of a chopper randomly flying in and landing while my squad is still on a defensive stance around the pick-up zone. Furthermore, if we're moving, the SL doesn't always have the best route to the place they are moving (and if they are getting transport anyway..you should have probably told them where they are going as it's probably far away), so if you know of any activity in the area, it's best to redirect their drop zone location out of harms way or at least inform them of their decision.




          What don't you need/want from the commander?( how much talking, too many orders, spelling with mine markers, etc):

          What I absolutely CANNOT stand is the all-chat from a commander. Don't use it. Ever. You can talk to multiple squads by highlighting them all and pressing B. If you're talking does not involve my squad at all, don't let me hear it. I'm doing a lot of coordination and talking in my squad and on top of that I get a bunch of people spouting off things on TS; I don't need a third party in my ear. I can't tell you how many times I've missed what someone has said thanks to the commander not knowing how to use the B key. The only time I can really think of using V is if we're all in one area or it's at the beginning or ending of a game for greetings and thanks.

          Out of date markers are always bad. If you have someone near a marker that's been up for a couple of minutes, ask if it's still good. Additionally, a lot of the same marker freaks me out. Unless there is a crap load of infantry in one area (like 1.5-2 squads spotted), try to not use that many infantry markers on one spot as they will be out-of-date soon enough.




          How much should TeamSpeak be used with in game VOIP while commanding?:

          This goes back to the chatterbox. If it's vital to all squads, then say it in TS. What I can't stand is constant chatter on TS about small things. Vital information should be passed and that's it. On top of that, not always is the SL or squadmembers are in TS, thus you don't know who you are talking to. So if it's vital and involves everyone (say.. our last flag is about to be taken and we need to make a full scale retreat), use it. Otherwise, use the B key.




          Are there maps where a commander is utterly useless?:

          None. Even in the small infantry maps a commander is extremely helpful if used properly. Think of it as attacking one objective with multiple squads. Coordinate them, guard/attack the flanks, and identify enemies. However, on smaller maps, giving the SL a bit more say on the situation is always best. This goes back to the original point, act like you're attacking one objective with multiple squads (and for the most part you are).

          I don't think I need to discuss how vital a commander is on large scale maps. Without one, your team is going to be a can of worms.



          Conclusively, this is just what I like in a commander and other SLs might have different preferences. Give me an order and a direction and my squad will do it. Tell me a side to attack and I'll maneuver them to support the attack. Tell me enemy armor is coming to us and we'll hide or take it down. Just don't tell me what you're saying to other squads. Lastly, you won't always find a cooperative squad when you're commanding. Work around them (and report them if they are not following your orders) and you should be fine.
          "If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the people to gather wood, divide the work, and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea."
          -Antoine De Saint-Exupery

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What do you need in a Commander?

            Thanks for the replies guys! I'll take it all into advisement. It's good to get more than one opinion on the issue!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What do you need in a Commander?

              Originally posted by Scarface6174 View Post
              Today I played commander twice, and I got to thinking "What does a SL need from me?



              *ill will try and answer the questions you have asked later or tomorrow.*
              Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
              Level II Volunteer FireFighter
              Level I HazMat Technician
              NYS EMT-B
              Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

              sigpic




              Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
              RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
              Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
              Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
              We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What do you need in a Commander?

                What do you need/want from the commander? (information, orders, etc)

                I need him to coordinate squads and relay me any important info other SLs may give him. Squads 1 and 3 attack, 2 and 4 defend. I also need him to put markers on the map (APC, Tank, Firebase) and clean them after a while. A map with 10 tanks spotted doesn't help me. I need CO to assign assets and keep it organized. If a squad made for APCs has all the APCs avaiable to them it's more likely they'll succeed.

                What don't you need/want from the commander?( how much talking, too many orders, spelling with mine markers, etc)

                Micro management. Let the SL deal with his squad members. "Squad 1, I want you to attack". I know I have to attack. Leave the Hows and Where Froms to me, just tell me what to do and I'll get it done. May take a while, depending on the map and assets available, but rest assured once you give me the order I'll follow it. Also, COs that speak to all the squads at once are bad. I used to do that a lot, but I found out I can talk to squad individually by selecting them and pressing B. It helps. A lot.

                How much should TeamSpeak be used with in game VOIP while commanding?

                TS is good for inter-squad coordination IMO. If I have a TOW squad member on TS with me, I can relay info to him faster than I could in game (by passing it to the CO and then to the TOW squad).

                Are there maps where a commander is utterly useless?

                One of the problems I see with the new system is that COs are useless most of the time. People will apply just to do arty drops and then leave, but I think that a team with a CO doing his job right has a lot more advantage over the ones without. The CO can make sure vehicles are being well used by the right squads, that there are people attacking and defending at the same time, etc. In other words, I see the CO as an organizer. And in PR, IMO, the most organized team winz.
                |TG-69th|Kevlar



                "Oh I know I don't think I see what I see what I'm thinking."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What do you need in a Commander?

                  What do you need/want from the commander? (information, orders, etc)

                  I prefer, having a CO with a mic, who speaks clearly and has a sense of what is needed/suggested of the map and the task at hand. Even if the CO doesn't speak english that well, but talks as clear and as loud (not shouting loud) it is a plus.

                  A CO who doesn't give orders or ask squads what they're plan is, isn't going to be an effective CO. A CO who at the start of the round or even in the middle who doesn't update the players as to what assets or specific kits squads are able to allocate won't have the full attention of the team. I tend say this to every squad, and also type it out so squad members can read, and squad leaders who maybe didn't hear me can read as well.

                  It is also very important especially on certain maps that the CO tells the SL's to not have their players spawn back at the carrier, or that the SL's update the commander if someone needs transportation. I have been on TS before as a CO and have witnessed SL's bypass me and just tell the Transport Helo squad that so and so needs a pick up.........

                  The above is rude, and shouldn't happen, same thing goes with enemy contact, the reason there is a CO is so a SL of either a TOW or infantry squad etc, can relay info that the CO can then update on the screen and let the other squads know. There is a reason why in real life all RTO's don't have communications with every unit in the military, certain units have access and certain don't it wouldn't be helpful if a Squad Leader had access to Nuclear Submarine Channels and mistakenly spotted something that looked like a nuclear weapon and voila, world war 3 could start over a cylinder thin oil drum.

                  A CO should be interested in doing what he has applied for, that's really the nuts and bolts behind it, he/she shouldn't look at it as being a boring tedious job, he should have the want to do it, or even if its the middle of a round and things are not going as smoothly as one thinks they should, someone volunteering to CO can really pull the team together and get everyone on the same page. The CO sets the tone for the round, and having a CO can be an advantage, and it can also be a disadvantage, but rarely have I ever seen it as a disadvantage.

                  A CO also needs SL's who are willing to listen, to follow orders, and to defend or even stay at the main base if they are in a transport squad. You could be the best CO in the world and be giving out orders for everyone and marking the map etc, but if you do not have willing SL's who want to listen to you and also share their input, then you will only get so far outside your main base.

                  SL's shouldn't be all about attacking, if you are tasked to defend you should accept it, not moan and groan, remember the CO holds all the cards, show him the same respect he would show you.

                  Also cleaning up the screen while playing CO is important, remove contact markers as needed. Let the team know if you are going to use one of the various symbols as something else.
                  For Example on Ramiel: AAV = Weapons cache.
                  Let the team know, it takes 2 seconds to type that in team chat, that way, everyone is on the same page.

                  CO's should get sit reps when needed, and also update every squad or certain squads in particular AO's as needed. Telling an armor squad that a enemy attack chopper or enemy armor/H-AT is in the area is always a worthwhile heads up.

                  I like to be the CO when I can using the officer kit, its something that I picked up way back when, you were required to have it, and it has stuck with me, but that's just something I prefer to do, some people don't care what kit they are using, just don't CO with an enemy specialty kit, that is not how the kit should be used, stuck inside a box just so it can be kept from the enemy.

                  Also, having a SL in direct communications with a CAS SL is important, that way, if another SL has a laser designated target it, the info can be relayed to the CAS SL on the ground and the appropriate markers can be set and verified, this tactic worked very well in coordination with Bullseye as the Hydro Huey SL on the ground and =SKS=davemccr as a SL on the other side of Barracuda a week before .85 was released, we ended up losing the game, however the use of CAS and the appropriate markers were dead on target.

                  Also make sure the SL either uses a observe marker or an attack marker when setting a laser designated tartget that way, as CO you can tell the Armor or Air squad where the target is being laser designated.





                  What don't you need/want from the commander?( how much talking, too many orders, spelling with mine markers, etc)

                  You never want a CO to constantly talk on comm’s spamming constantly. Also having a CO who draws cutesy pictures with mine markers, is also not needed, if I wanted to see those pictures I would create a local server, go as CO and create my own, during a game, it will only distract and annoy players who are trying to play as a team. Having a CO who isn’t responsive to suggestions is also a negative for me, but that is just me, if I am the CO I like to have suggestions brought from SL’s and then I can use that suggestion right then and there, or put it in my pocket and save it for later in the round, or maybe not use it at all.

                  Speaking clearly, and non-abusive is also a plus, I don’t want to be nagged while in game, but I also don’t want a CO who doesn’t present some sort of authority. A CO should take a look at the whole picture and not feel obligated to automatically let a squad named APC to primaraily use the APC’s, if he feels that they are not being productive or using it to benefit the whole team then he should have the confidence to let another squad use it if they request and not feel shame if that squad disagrees. Same for Helicopters, he should have the confidence to tell pilots when to fly and when they cannot, because as we all know, people love to fly helicopters more so at times when they are not needed.

                  Though I don’t always agree, lately, I do understand the need to have a CO when an area attack is available, a CO should let the team know when one is available so it can be used promptly and then have another one ready in the next hour or 45 minutes or so, not using when its available can actually hurt the team later in the round.

                  Sometimes using the observe markers are also very beneficial, because you can have a SL hit page up and it doesn’t make that much of a sound, if a CO is going to use that option he has to tell the SL that it means to attack or defend, or move….and then it is at the SL’s discretion if he feels he needs to let his squad know what that order means.



                  How much should TeamSpeak be used with in game VOIP while commanding?

                  In game voip is the number one way to communicate, because lets face it, there is no use of talking to SL’s in the leadership channel who aren’t even on TS. However make sure if you want to speak to an individual squad that you click and highlight that squad, that way you can communicate directly with them and not clog up the comm’s. If a squad leader needs to speak to you, whether it is through the in game VOIP or on TS, make sure they ask first, I.E. “This is squad 3 CO”, or “This is squad 3, Urgent” or “Squad 3 requesting permission to speak” or “Squad 3 sit rep.” Telling the SL’s to communicate with you this way from the beginning will save a lot of confusion on VOIP and TS throughout the round.

                  Leadership channels are for SL’s, and CO’s, if you are in a coordination channel, ask for the SL’s to move up to leadership, it can cut sometimes half the amount of chatter, and can be extremely useful especially when talking to armor squads or helicopter squads, and in some cases you might resort to talking to a few specific squad leaders directly in Team speak, and save the talking to squad leaders through the game who are not on TS.

                  Team speak is a plus all around.

                  Are there maps where a commander is utterly useless?

                  Having a CO is never useless, if anything it’s a way to let the team know where enemy units might be, where Firebases might be and where CAS is needed and it also works to keep everyone aware of what other squad leaders have seen, instead of just typing in team chat, markers can be placed etc….
                  Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                  Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                  Level I HazMat Technician
                  NYS EMT-B
                  Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

                  sigpic




                  Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
                  RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
                  Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
                  Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
                  We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What do you need in a Commander?

                    Common sense, that is the only thing I want from a commander, common sense and balls to have a plan and stick to it.

                    I've lost count the number of times a commander has decided in his wisdom to order a squad or 2 away from a flag that was about to be greyed in our favour, just to intercept some enemy that was no immediate threat to the squad, the team, or the overall picture.

                    I always found a commander is largely redundant apart from putting markers down and asking for help from those without TS, CAS support is always easier to get if you speak directly on TS.

                    SL: XYZ We need a run on XXXX, Laze is up, squad 3, cheers.

                    It's great when a commander has a really good plan, and all squads are listening, and the markers are down, that is fantastic, but it's a rare occasion.

                    One of the best rounds with a commander we had was on the one with the river, a small village on the east, a flag north west and a flag south east. US start in the bottom left corner.

                    We had 2 squads in the village defending the flag and because of the commander, the defence worked fantastically, we put markers down, relayed to CO, CO dropped the markers, squads shifted accordingly to place fire, a large part was due to the CO as the other SL wasn't on TS, so the CO was relaying comms really well.

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                    • #11
                      Re: What do you need in a Commander?

                      Loads and loads of JDAMs :P
                      |TG| (:djames-d)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What do you need in a Commander?

                        If you are "too annoying" the squadleaders are not doing their job. How is the CO supposed to know that your squad cant float to point X because it is pinned down by enemy fire.

                        The squadleader needs to communicate his status to the CO what the squad is doing and communicate everytime his situation changes.

                        If the squad is moving out tell the co, if the squad is defending tell the CO, if the squad comes under fire or is being engaged tell the co. If the squad eliminated all resistance or is IDLE again tell the CO.

                        This will decrease the ammount of absurd orders.
                        If you do get a order of which you think you can not execute, maybe because you did not forward the CO all the relevant intel, update him on your situation and tell him what is going on instead of ingoring him, or hoping that your situation will change soon.

                        Now on to your question, what I need from the CO is to forward intelligence and issue orders, to avoid redundancy and IDLE time (too many/not enough squads attacking or defending), assign assets and generally coordinate the operation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What do you need in a Commander?

                          Originally posted by Golgo13 View Post
                          If you are "too annoying" the squadleaders are not doing their job. How is the CO supposed to know that your squad cant float to point X because it is pinned down by enemy fire.

                          The squadleader needs to communicate his status to the CO what the squad is doing and communicate everytime his situation changes.

                          If the squad is moving out tell the co, if the squad is defending tell the CO, if the squad comes under fire or is being engaged tell the co. If the squad eliminated all resistance or is IDLE again tell the CO.

                          This will decrease the ammount of absurd orders.
                          If you do get a order of which you think you can not execute, maybe because you did not forward the CO all the relevant intel, update him on your situation and tell him what is going on instead of ingoring him, or hoping that your situation will change soon.

                          Now on to your question, what I need from the CO is to forward intelligence and issue orders, to avoid redundancy and IDLE time (too many/not enough squads attacking or defending), assign assets and generally coordinate the operation.
                          Agreed. With all but the best teams there is too little chatter. As CO, I find myself twiddling my thumbs in most pub games.

                          That said: If there are 5+ squads led by great players, the opposite starts to be come into effect: Too much information!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What do you need in a Commander?

                            Sometimes too much chatter isn't a good thing, because you have to take into account that too much chatter can actually be distracting.

                            Now if the SL wants to keep updating the CO and the CO gives him permission to speak thats another thing, but SL's shouldn't constantly talk tot the CO, and the CO shouldn't constantly talk to all squads all the time......if I want the CO to constantly talk to me, ill give him my cell number, put him on speaker, and then put my headphones on and play the game.......or, go into another room for that matter.

                            Update the CO with SitReps, let the CO what is going on, but do so in a cordial manner, and everything should run smoothly. Sometimes even if I am the CO and we lose the round I am happy because all SL's did what they were supposed to and communicated how they were supposed to (Both on TS and in game).

                            Nothing is more frustrating than squad leaders who think they are above the CO, or who think they know all the answers....and yet round after round after round they never step into the CP.
                            Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                            Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                            Level I HazMat Technician
                            NYS EMT-B
                            Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

                            sigpic




                            Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
                            RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
                            Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
                            Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
                            We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What do you need in a Commander?

                              Simple: COMMITMENT

                              TG-E1st TacticalGamer European Division |



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