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  • Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

    So, I'm thinking about making a map for PR. And I'd like to base it on Qwai River, since that is one of my favorite maps. What I want from you all is your opinions on Qwai. What works, what doesn't work? Which objectives and terrain features are good, which are bad? What makes Qwai Qwai, if you know what I mean?

    Also, how does this area look as a basis for a map?
    http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=2...41156&t=k&z=15

  • #2
    Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

    i like how the map makes good use of inf AND assets. the us have great manoeuvrability with the lb;s strykers and humvees yet the Chinese have more fire-power with the tanks and their apc's

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    • #3
      Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

      Qwai seems like the perfect balance of all the terrain types in the game. There's a little bit of everything and not too much of any one type.
      That and what Browna said are the two defining point of Qwai as I see it.

      The place you are looking at Charity... that sure seems like a wide river. If you're standing on one bank do you think the other bank will draw ? Or be hidden in fog ?

      Do you have elevation data ? Im assuming this country is kind of flat since its near the coast.

      |

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      • #4
        Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

        I like how the Chinese have firepower, but the US has maneuverability. Big chokepoints on maps is also awesome

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        • #5
          Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

          -Infantry is an absolute MUST to capture flags (generally have some protection from enemy while on flag [The large room at mine, the walls of Govt, the buildings of Processing, the debris on estate and the elevation differences of temple, etc]

          -Assets are best used for area control and defense, rather than overall area capture

          -Mix of fighting areas (Industrial-Govt Office; Sparse forest-Estate, hills of Fishing Village, etc) make for interesting fights on different stages of the game.

          -Maneuverability and Offensive/Anti-Infantry power (US) VS. Great Defensive power and more firepower (PLA)

          -Multiple chokepoints of every area and an alternative for them (Bridges/Waterway; Mines entrance/Forest to the NW; etc)

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          • #6
            Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

            - a few chokepoints for vehicles (and inf) to pass by

            - urban (govt center area), hilly (west of fishing), flat/open settings(fields) -- give a good mixture of combat and not just one setting. Especially different settings for flag locations.

            - smaller map (getting to flags doesn't require APCs or transport.. but it does help)

            - not a lot of assets; few assets for support make them better used (look at ramiel with APCs)

            - no tank on tank combat or APCs with TOW rockets that NEED to take down the other enemy APC. I absolutely think it's horrible for a team when a tank or APC squad think it's more important to go off in the middle of no where to hopefully kill a tank instead of supporting a squad. Qwai is so small, that the Stykers/Tanks/TOWs are always nearby to help and not forever away.



            Summary: Small map for easy to cross. Different terrain with different objectives (Think mine area to faculty to fishing village.. all are slightly urban, but have unique settings to place them in). Don't make a lot of assets, please. I'd love to see a map of two humvess and two Stykers as the assets. I'm sure we'd get some good supporting groups on that map. Also, make sure that there is a deffinite path on some locations. Think Archer, Fools Road & Qwai (where the first two are too big of a map compared to Qwai).


            Hope it turns out great. Loved to see it when it does and hope I helped a bit. =P
            "If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the people to gather wood, divide the work, and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea."
            -Antoine De Saint-Exupery

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

              I think that if you want to make a map, you will have to find another place than that. In some places, the river is over 600 meters wide. The entire thing is about 3600x3600 meters. While there are maps like Qinling and Kashan that have such a large area, they are mostly open with little detail. This map would require about as much area, but with Qwai-level detail, which will take like several years to make.


              Qwai is OK. A lot of people like the asymmetry in the PLA's heavier assets vs the US Army's lighter assets, but this just doesn't work when skilled people are running TOWs. As Marine demonstrates nearly every round of Qwai, the Chinese Armor hardly gets anywhere before being destroyed. The same goes for APCs. When those are down, then all TOW focus is on trucks until the armor comes back. Then what you have is PLA without assets and the US with TOWs, APCs, Logistics trucks, transport trucks, transport helicopters, scout helicopters that act like attack helicopters because the people flying them are tards.

              The infantry fighting is awesome, though.
              Waldo II

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              • #8
                Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

                I like the processing facility as it is, great defensive positions, boat ramp, guard towers, etc. The temple is the Chinese equivalent I suppose, also pretty easy to defend and well setup with the woods around it. I wish there was a little more room to attack the flag on the east, perhaps widen the woods towards the water to allow for more room to hide after getting dropped off via littlebird. A trail up that hill might also be nice for covert boat insertions.
                The Estate flag is fun to defend but never seems to be a flag when I play. Adding a second or even a third construction building might allow for more CQB fighting to take place there.
                I wish the mine was more of a mine, lol. Having an underground complex like the tunnel on Koselisk would be sweet. That is probably my least favorite area on the map. Too high up for the river to come into play, and false advertisement on the mine.

                I like the Chinese tanks+APC's, and feel they TOW's make a good balance between the 2, but a bad TOW squad makes it pretty un-fun for the USA side. Bringing LAV's on board might allow some heavier counter-fire to the Chinese APC's, perhaps trade out a TOW for 2 LAV's? -would be interesting.

                The Chinese attack helo is pretty soft. I wish it could match the littlebird better in armor. I also wish the Chinese had some form of a transport helo to match the mobility of the USA team. This would really throw off the balance of the map though.

                I wish the last flag when attacking the Chinese main was different, with spawn points in the complex like the USA team. Perhaps you could double the size of the vehicle base and make the cap radius only available if you are inside the perimeter of the walls.

                Overall, I love the map the way it is! It might be fun to play some other variants of a good thing, however. Good luck!
                |TG-X|WAREHOUSE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

                  Regarding the location of the new map, I really like that split in the river down on the south side. Incorporating some kind of island would be awesome.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

                    Originally posted by google View Post
                    Regarding the location of the new map, I really like that split in the river down on the south side. Incorporating some kind of island would be awesome.
                    Make it like an island fortress?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

                      It's a good map. US has manuverabililty with TOW humvees and 2 transport LBs while China has firepower with Tanks, APCs, and the slightly better WASP Gunship.

                      Only bad thing is the random placement of the CPs are terrible.
                      Reedible

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                      • #12
                        Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

                        Originally posted by w.WAREHOUSE View Post
                        I like the processing facility as it is, great defensive positions, boat ramp, guard towers, etc. The temple is the Chinese equivalent I suppose, also pretty easy to defend and well setup with the woods around it. I wish there was a little more room to attack the flag on the east, perhaps widen the woods towards the water to allow for more room to hide after getting dropped off via littlebird. A trail up that hill might also be nice for covert boat insertions.
                        The Estate flag is fun to defend but never seems to be a flag when I play. Adding a second or even a third construction building might allow for more CQB fighting to take place there.
                        I wish the mine was more of a mine, lol. Having an underground complex like the tunnel on Koselisk would be sweet. That is probably my least favorite area on the map. Too high up for the river to come into play, and false advertisement on the mine.

                        I like the Chinese tanks+APC's, and feel they TOW's make a good balance between the 2, but a bad TOW squad makes it pretty un-fun for the USA side. Bringing LAV's on board might allow some heavier counter-fire to the Chinese APC's, perhaps trade out a TOW for 2 LAV's? -would be interesting.

                        The Chinese attack helo is pretty soft. I wish it could match the littlebird better in armor. I also wish the Chinese had some form of a transport helo to match the mobility of the USA team. This would really throw off the balance of the map though.

                        I wish the last flag when attacking the Chinese main was different, with spawn points in the complex like the USA team. Perhaps you could double the size of the vehicle base and make the cap radius only available if you are inside the perimeter of the walls.

                        Overall, I love the map the way it is! It might be fun to play some other variants of a good thing, however. Good luck!
                        I agree with warehouse here except I would get rid of the Strikers and Tows and replace them with Bradleys.


                        A good leader requires both character and strategy. If he is to be without one, let it be strategy. - General Rick Hilliar, Former Canadian Chief of Defence

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

                          change jdam / mortars from 1 hour to 30 min mortars, helpfull to attack other flag and not waiting / sitting around till it comes (temple is hard to attack without mortars for example)



                          | | | |

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                          • #14
                            Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

                            Originally posted by Masterjack View Post
                            I agree with warehouse here except I would get rid of the Strikers and Tows and replace them with Bradleys.
                            I second the motion for Bradleys, They're a great way to maintain asymmetry without handicapping one side or the other. Currently, the TOW's are the absolute deciding factor on Qwai: if the TOW's succeed, the US wins, if the TOW fails, the PLA wins. Having TOW equipped bradleys would allow the US to fight PLA apc's head on, and survive tank encounters without resorting to dirty tactics.

                            As for the rest of the map design. Things I like about Qwai...
                            • Asymmetric Assets
                            • Strategic role of the bridges and river crossings
                            • Combination of Urban, Forested, and Open combat


                            Things I do not like about Qwai...
                            • View distance too low
                            • TOW / Tank balance (see above)
                            • Some of the new AAS v3 objectives are boring


                            Keeping these things in mind, one question I have for you is What size map do you want to make? Keep in mind that if you go 2km size like Qwai you will have to really alter the fundamental design to impress the DEV's enough for them to approve it, since they already have Qwai. On the other hand, if you go 4km size, you will have to make certain changes, like having mandatory transport helicopters for both sides. This will affect one of the primary asymmetries of Qwai, the PLA's lack of air transport.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Likes/Dislikes on Qwai

                              I agree with Unedible: The randomness of some maps IS terrible. The fighting, most of the time, is way too spread out, one-sided, or just plain assets-only. That said, I -have- had great infantry battles on Qwai.

                              I think there are too many assets on Qwai. One LB, for scouting, would probably suffice for the U.S. Team. One TOW, one Striker, more humvees.

                              China: Two APCs. No tank. One helicopter. Maybe 3-4 FAVs and a few troop transports?

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