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  • Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

    Proof:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...er/8007565.stm

    So less qq'ing about headshots being non fatal already!
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    Pride/Shame of the PLA

  • #2
    Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

    Not sure how this is related to PR....but interesting nonetheless.
    Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
    Level II Volunteer FireFighter
    Level I HazMat Technician
    NYS EMT-B
    Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

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    Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
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    Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
    Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
    We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

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    • #3
      Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

      Pretty lucky guy. But what i think hes getting at Randy was that some people were arguing about headshots not always being fatal, which in some case as this vid shows, is sometimes true. But i would say 90% of the time headshots are fatal except for few small cases such as this.
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      Do you really want invincible bears running around raping your churches and burning your women?

      Intel i7 3930k @ 4.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 2x GTX 570 1gb, OCZ Vertex 3 120 gig SSD

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      • #4
        Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/odd_head_...qRLj_kknXtiBIF

        I think I win this battle.

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        • #5
          Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

          Originally posted by gijoe View Post
          Pretty lucky guy. But what i think hes getting at Randy was that some people were arguing about headshots not always being fatal, which in some case as this vid shows, is sometimes true. But i would say 90% of the time headshots are fatal except for few small cases such as this.

          Gotcha. I figured that as much, but what people also have to remember and as you pointed out and as commie pointed out that there is a difference between actual reality and a video game called Project Reality. If people want to complain about headshots in PR they should play a round of ARMA where its one death, make them wait 50 minutes before the round is over........

          then we will see what complaints they have. Imagine waiting 2hrs for a round of kashan or any other map for that matter, to end because you got a head shot in the first 30mins, or shot and bled out and were unable to be revived?
          Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
          Level II Volunteer FireFighter
          Level I HazMat Technician
          NYS EMT-B
          Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

          sigpic




          Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
          RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
          Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
          Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
          We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

            Even according to those news stories, I think you're actually arguing against your own point.

            Those are the exception, not the rule.

            As it states in both stories, they were "extremely lucky" and people around them were "astonished".

            Being shot in the head is not something most people would walk away from.

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            • #7
              Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

              Just stick that eppy in the bullet hole and you're good to go.

              Seriously though, it's just part of the game mechanic. You can't have a medic squad ferrying wounded players back to base while a SL with the Surgeon kit does a 10 hour brain surgery mini-game. Just because something's based on realism doesn't mean it should be entirely realistic :).

              I didn't join a squad once and this guy named Nardini took me into the back room and beat me with a sock of oranges.

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              • #8
                Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

                Speaking of medics ferrying squads. There should be an item in the medics kit that lets them drag the body. It would be realistic, and within reasonable. You can pull the wounded over the hill onto the safe side, you can pull the wounded out of the river you can pull the wounded inside the building, etc.

                It would be like the resuscitation with the hands, but it shows a grabbing motion.

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                • #9
                  Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

                  Originally posted by Axis_Sniper View Post
                  Speaking of medics ferrying squads. There should be an item in the medics kit that lets them drag the body. It would be realistic, and within reasonable. You can pull the wounded over the hill onto the safe side, you can pull the wounded out of the river you can pull the wounded inside the building, etc.

                  It would be like the resuscitation with the hands, but it shows a grabbing motion.
                  I don't know if the bf2 engine permits that. However it is possible in ARMA.
                  Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                  Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                  Level I HazMat Technician
                  NYS EMT-B
                  Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

                  sigpic




                  Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
                  RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
                  Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
                  Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
                  We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

                    I think it's possible. If you're capable of pushing the body with the resuscitation with the hands, you can probably put that physic into a infinte value which forces the body to move in one direction or another.

                    Of course I am speaking out of my ass and have no idea what I am blabbering on about. :)

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                    • #11
                      Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

                      Penetrating gunshots are almost always fatal. However, since cranial fragmentation(and thus the recurring insult to the brain) can be limited if the gunshot came from smaller weapons such as pistols, I'd say survival could be a possibility. This especially applies if the damage is unilobar and non-fragmented(1).

                      Final mortality rate numbers are difficult to come by though, since not much research about this has been published. The prognosis is based on the patients initial Glasgow Coma Scale(GCS) number, a way of assessing the conciousness of a patient.


                      This table(1) is suggestive of mortality rates based on GCS-score. GCS is usually scored 1-12, but in this study they divided patients in A-D, with the D group being the largest and the one with the most patients(i.e most patients have a low GCS-score and thus a very high mortality rate). 59 patients were from Group A (22.3%), 32 from Group B (12%), 49 from Group C (18.5%), and 125 from Group D (47.2%).


                      Bihempspheric bullet trajectory. Both temporal lobes are affected. Severe, multifocal fragmentation.

                      In addition to the GCS-score, the degree of cranial fracture is also a determining factor in assessing the outcome of patients. Skull fracture will lead to fragmentation of bone into the brain, which severely lowers the prognosis. One study shows that shots to the head with either a 7.65 mm (pistol) or a ·38 special (revolver) results in severe cranial fracture in 82% of cases(2). These are small weapons compared to the rifles used in PR. The degree of tissue destruction depends, as you might expect, on the projectile used and the strength of the weapon(3).

                      That said, there are multiple case reports(though few studies) reporting surviving patients with little or no neurological symptoms post trauma. Most of these are suicide attempts, generally attempted with small arms(pistols or similar).

                      For a conclusive mortality rate I'd want to talk to army neurosurgeons from war zones, but I've no idea where these guys publishes their articles(if they do publish anything). However, what is certain is that it would be absolutely impossible to "revive", i.e operate, on a soldier shot in the head in the field. All patients shot in the head would suffer from cranial herniation, which would result in either temporary or permanent neurological symptoms involving cranial nerve affection and loss of conciousness. The fact that headshot soldiers in PR die instantly probably reflect both the fact that they would almost certainly die and the fact that even if they didn't, it'd be months or years until they could return to the battlefield.


                      References
                      1 - Roberto S. Martins M.D., *, M. G. Siqueira M.D.*, M. T. S. Santos M.D.*, N. Zanon-Collange M.D.* and O. J. S. Moraes M.D.Prognostic factors and treatment of penetrating gunshot wounds to the head. Trauma 2001. Department of Neurosurgery, Hospital Santa Marcelina, São Paulo, SP, Brazil

                      2 - P. Betz, a, , D. Stiefelb, R. Hausmanna and W. Eisenmengerc, Fractures at the base of the skull in gunshots to the head, Forensic Science Journal Volume 86, Issue 3, 5 May 1997, Pages 155-161.

                      3 - Constantin Stuehmer DDS, , , Katrin S. Blum MD, Horst Kokemueller MD, DDS‡, Frank Tavassol MD, DDS§, Kai Hendrik Bormann DDS, Nils-Claudius Gellrich MD, DDS and Martin Rücker MD, DDS, Influence of Different Types of Guns, Projectiles, and Propellants on Patterns of Injury to the Viscerocranium, Journal of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery
                      Volume 67, Issue 4, April 2009, Pages 775-781.


                      - having fun on the battlefield, the "TG way"



                      'Not How Many But Where'

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                      • #12
                        Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

                        Thats a pretty lucky soldier there!
                        PR ingame name - |TG-Irr| SilverJohn

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                        • #13
                          Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

                          Would you like some tea officer??

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                          • #14
                            Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

                            Originally posted by Axis_Sniper View Post
                            I think it's possible. If you're capable of pushing the body with the resuscitation with the hands, you can probably put that physic into a infinte value which forces the body to move in one direction or another.

                            Of course I am speaking out of my ass and have no idea what I am blabbering on about. :)
                            If it could be done that would be great...although would you just give the medic the ability, or would you give it to every kit? Seems kinda unrealistic that a medic can drag someone around but a normal rifleman can't.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Why Headshots =/= Instant Kill

                              Personally, and this is just me rambling, but there really isn't a need for it, it might be one thing if PR was based around teams working as platoons/companies, but with only squad size units for the most part working together, there really isn't enough time so to speak to run out, pick someone up and ferry them back, you have smoke which gives you ample cover and you have the tools and a mic to tell the person you are using the epi on which way they need to head back for cover.

                              Being able to drag/pick someone up could and would most likely in PR, and IMHO add an additional person who needs to be revived.
                              Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                              Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                              Level I HazMat Technician
                              NYS EMT-B
                              Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

                              sigpic




                              Bring On Project Reality 1.0!!!
                              RSS Feeds:Bamboo | | 9/11 - Never Forget |
                              Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
                              Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
                              We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."

                              Comment

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