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Opinions from CAS pilots

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  • Opinions from CAS pilots

    I may or may not be making a large-scale tutorial on the subject of calling in CAS, so I may or may not need some input from the guys in the air.

    I may or may not be working out the section, which may or may not exist, about what to write/what to say when calling in CAS. I need to know what order of information you want, and how to get your attention in team chat. In calling in an airstrike, there are these parts that must be in the line of text
    • Target - "Bradley AAV"
    • Lased or not - "LASED"
    • Grid - "Alpha 6 keypad 1" or "A6k1"
    • Type of ordnance - "Guns" "Bombs" "LGMs" "Hydra strafe"
    • Attention grabber - "CAS: AIRSTRIKE...." "FROGFOOT...."

    What I need to know is your opinions on what you want to be in the line of text exactly. I mean what should be in caps, what should come first, second, third, last, etc.

    I need your response to look like this
    • Name
    • Example line of text
    • Reasoning behind it

    • Waldo_II
    • CAS: AIRSTRIKE with BOMBS, Bradley AAV, LASED, Alpha 6 keypad 1
    • The all-caps at the beginning is to get my attention, it stands out from the rest of the crap. The location is at the end so I can find that easily. I don't care so much for the order of ordnance, target type, and laser status, but just so long as it is in there. It is important that the gird location be typed out in full because it is easier to find and recognize.

    Please keep discussion to a minimum, please use the format. If you don't know how to make a list, quote me, look at how I did it, and then you can delete the quote and do how I did it. If you never do CAS, this thread does not apply to you.
    Waldo II

  • #2
    Re: Opinions from CAS pilots


    location first allows the target to be marked and put the aircraft in route while the rest of the information is being processed. target type and munitions and allows the pilot to determine the munitions to use and whether the target will escape.
    |TG-12th| Namebot


    • #3
      Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

      I'm looking for a little more information, Namebot. "Grid/targettype/lazed" doesn't tell me nearly as much as "CAS: AIRSTRIKE with BOMBS, Bradley AAV, LASED, Alpha 6 keypad 1" in terms of what you are looking for. Does it matter if the grid is a6k1 or written out in full? What kind of punctuation do you want separating bits of information? Do you want just "a6k1 bradley aav lazed?" it seems to me that would get lost in the mess that chat usually is.

      I'm looking for a lot of information here, not the bare minimums.
      Waldo II


      • #4
        Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

        Short and simple.

        Location, Target Type, Lased.

        Pilot decides on ordinance required.

        | |


        • #5
          Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

          Honestly, if I was in a jet such as an A-10 I'd prefer a recommendation from the ground troops as to what ordnance to use rather than a set thing or nothing at all. For example, add onto your standard thing:

          "Infantry spread out, strafe target southwest-to-northeast, northwest side of mountain range"


          • #6
            Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

            That's too much to type out. I get more advanced FACing than what I posted only when I have direct comms with the FAC.

            | |


            • #7
              Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

              Hm. You could shorten it pretty easily. "sw-ne strafe, nw mountainside"


              • #8
                Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

                Tank lazed a6k8
                I'm looking at the text 50% of the time that im flying
                and i know what to do for what target type
                but then again u might want to tell me if something friendly is being lazed because my bombs like to hit friendly targets over enemy


                • #9
                  Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

                  • Preferred layout: CALL: Target, Lase, CONDITIONALS*, Location**; AA Threat***
                  • Quick Call: CAS TARGET: Tank, Lased, D4k5
                  • Quick Call 2: CAS TARGET: IFV, Lased, E5k3; AA 300m SW
                  • Long Call: CAS TARGET: Inf, No Lase, Spread N to S 25m, Delta 5 key 1; AA clear
                  • Long Call 2: CAS TARGET: Tank, Lased, BOMB, Echo 4 key 7; AA in area
                  • The most important things a pilot needs to know are encompassed in this call layout.

                    It's a bit extensive to type a full call, but a Quickened version is good for getting the most information out in the shortest text. The pilot can tell his target is ready and waiting, where it is, and whether AA is a threat. If AA was a threat, he can adjust his angle of approach, or his ordnance, or whether it is recommended he pop flares.

                    The Long version is good for when time allows the extra information to be sent. It reduces the chance for a miscalled location, and therefore less of a chance for your CAS to get shot down or to waste ammunition on nothingness.

                    The Conditional section allows the call to be fine-tuned to avoid friendly casualties, to avoid partially missing the target, or over-expending ammunition on a run.

                    The AA Threat section should be included in ALL calls, if at all possible. If you do not list the condition of AA, you should realise you are telling the pilot that AA is UNKNOWN at the time, and recommend that he be cautious. If you call 'AA clear' you are telling the pilot that there is no need to pop flares, as there is no AA around this area. If you call 'AA in area' or 'AA possible North' you are telling the pilot that he should be careful because you have a good idea that there is AA in the area, but cannot pinpoint it. If you call a specific AA area 'AA 300m NW' you are letting the pilot know that it is sure, if not EXTREMELY LIKELY, for there to be AA in that area. He should adjust his angle accordingly to avoid Line-of-Sight with the AA, or use another ordnance to avoid harm.

                  *OPTIONAL: conditionals are recommending of ordnance (CAPS), direction of approach (CAPS), strafe range, any other threats to be known.
                  **For quick calls, such as when you are under fire or the target will soon be out of range, shorthand location is acceptable as long as you are sure that the grid you are calling is right. When you have time, I prefer having a full location call to ensure you know what you are calling on.
                  ***MANDATORY: AA threats should ALWAYS be called, whether you know of it's existance or not

                  Preferably, a kill confirm should follow (CAS: Target down/CAS: Target wounded).


                  • #10
                    Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

                    Yes, telling the CAS pilot that an AAV was in the area or is in the area currently will allow the CAS pilot to be more prepared upon performing the actual CAS mission. So he won't get so spooked probably and if he does get locked, there is a good probability it is from that AAV.



                    • #11
                      Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

                      Originally posted by Berlancic View Post
                      Yes, telling the CAS pilot that an AAV was in the area or is in the area currently will allow the CAS pilot to be more prepared upon performing the actual CAS mission. So he won't get so spooked probably and if he does get locked, there is a good probability it is from that AAV.
                      I have had many-an-occasion where I was called into an attack run, and they decided to tell me that AA was around after I was already inbound for attack, or didn't at all, even though they knew.

                      I believe that this is one of the single biggest pieces of information you can give to any pilot, whether he chooses to use it or not. If you know a general location (300m NW of the Target), then the pilot can either work out an angle of attack that completely obscures himself of the AA for as long as possible (Flying E-W then turning S immediately after firing), or can hit from the opposite angle (Comes in SE, then pitches directly up after releasing payload), or can just decide he's going to play it safe on this one and drop the big bertha from way up high.

                      Preferably, any information that can be given to the pilot is a good thing; from there, he can choose what he will consider in his attack and discard the rest if necessary (IE, you may tell him it's an IFV, but he may personally categorize that as a target suitable for AGM along with any other vehicles, where as another pilot may prefer using guns and dumb-fire rockets to eliminate those slightly softer targets).


                      • #12
                        Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

                        im on hotel wifi in yosemite so cant make it detailed..

                        based on what im reading though, i agree and i personally like it short too. cause if u have too long of text it gets distracting.

                        Bradley moving lased g4k3
                        bradley hold lased g5k9 aa south

                        ordinance doesnt really mattered.. if its markered and moving so no lase its obviously a strafe.. and u wouldnt fire mavericks against inf. and if theres a jet then u would drop a bomb from 2000

                        note though.. most people that are registered in the tg community that end up lazing are pretty good with this. its when u have non regulars who just start spamming lazing target.

                        with hydra cas, i like it when people be more specific. well i guess it applies for jets too.
                        to say something like "inf beach g4k3 lazed West to east run.
                        if they are in bunkers then mention that. also i noticed some people are even giving micro grids which are awesome A4kp5.2

                        stuck on a mountain with no PR


                        • #13
                          Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

                          People expect to much out of CAS. Especially fixed wing. I have only flown the A10 on a TG server for one round and i must say the pressure is enormous, even landing is harder, because you know everyone is scrutinizing your moves. Whereas i can fly on a training server and feel no pressure. Dont mind it though.

                          I dont think typed CAS works, it takes too long to update. That whole round people were lazeing stuff, then literally shouting at me "Why didnt you hit the target!?!!??". So while flying, ive had to type "Where the hell was the target?" Then someone else starts lazeing and says something like AAV in i then have to ask have you lazed the AAV? Or was it even you calling the laze or are you just telling me theres an AAV while someone else called a laze?

                          Then you finally get someone who types in enemy bmp,G6K5. Then they laze, then you get there, theres no laze and at this point your out of flares (because i drop flares at random when flying over known hot spots...not alot of people realize your ment to flare on the way INTO a target, not when u get a lock warning) and have to RTB with them asking why you didnt fire.

                          End result i stopped responding to the typed instructions and only listened to people on TS. The way it should be. The amount of info you can cram into 5 seconds of TS speech is worth 1 minute of typeing.

                          All CAS calls should be done on TS or else through the commander who relays to your SL who relays to you, but ideally TS.


                          • #14
                            Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

                            Personally... all I care about is

                            "Target , condition of lase, grid & KP, approach direction"

                            Flare on the way in, once bomb released and on way out :)

                            The reason for this is that when flying, you don't want to have too much to consider, I much prefer to jsut have to read a short line of text then begin my run. If I have to read quite a large amount as a pilot it can be rpetty difficult to successfully fly and read at the same time especially if popel are typing up thigns like "Tank D3K3" and you see that about 5 times udnerneath pushing it off the screen.

                            keep it simple, keep it small and keep it accurate. That's all I ask for.


                            • #15
                              Re: Opinions from CAS pilots

                              If we are using a standard communication system we wouldnt need a text request for CAS. If youre reading these forums you should already know that the majority of our comms is on voice.

                              If my team is pinned down, say, holding South Beach, there is no time to type in a request. Im constantly switching between my map, cordinating my team and scanning for contacts.

                              The best example of this is actually South Beach. My team landed on the dock and we made our way to capture the beach when a sizable enemy force launched a counter attack. My team set up a defensive position and I quickly called CAS on TS.

                              "CAS sqd X"

                              "Sqd X this is CAS"

                              "CAS, Sqd X calling for immediate Air support at S Docks, Enmy Inf Sqd Xs 2 moving in from our N"

                              "Sqd X CAS is inbound"

                              "Rgr CAS, Marking our position with smoke, your air is clear, BRING THE RAIN!"

                              Quick and simple... gave the situation, estimate of enemy strength, whether the air was clear (AA or Anti Air) and marked our position so the CAS would be comfortable in their runs (not hitting friendlies).

                              Have some faith in your friends! Those that start a CAS sqd are not rookies, give them the info and they will decide how to handle it. I know that when I call in CAS Im not worried about their skill, give them a Sit Rep, estimate of enmy strength, if their air is clear or not and some faith that they will bring the Cav.




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