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  • Bullet Drops

    I started this thread over in the PR forums and it has helped me figure out how these things work. It was not quite how people have explained it to me.

    Originally posted by privetB View Post
    generally you can say:
    sniper = 600m
    marksman = 600m
    LMG = 350m
    assault rifle = 300m
    SMG = 100m
    pistol= 50m

    I think it is described in the manual at which range the guns are zeroed. But i am not sure at which range pistols and mps are ranged (those i wrote are from arma 2 lol)
    This is not super helpful in lieu of some later posts explaining the PR physics.



    Originally posted by Jonny
    Wrong.

    They follow a parabolic trajectory whose starting velocity is parallel to the barrel of the rifle (discounting deviation). It is NOT a 'linear' drop.





    I have attempted to add realistic ballistics into PR, along with help from Nedlands, CAS-117, Mosquill and Zangoo. We discovered that the tracer rounds start at a different velocity to the non tracer rounds, and that it is too much of a difference to be acceptable. The difference is so great that either one of the realistic gravity or quadratic viscous drag force make the tracers follow a noticably different trajectory to the non tracer rounds.

    The DEVs do not approve of any of the workarounds that have been found to this day, and zeroing only some of the guns is not acceptable, apparently.




    Some of the work we did went into the wookie sniper mod, if you want to see some decent ballistics.
    This was referring to some preconceived notions about PR physics people had.



    Originally posted by [R-CON]nedlands1
    Nope. The weapons in the game aren't really "zeroed" as such (see diagram below). The whole "zeroing" thing is an arbitrary way of saying that you need to take into bullet drop at that range. In general the deviation has much greater influence on hitting your target than bullet drop.

    very helpful diagram


    Originally posted by [R-CON]nedlands1 View Post
    Yes. Bullets drop for all distances unless the gravity modifier for the projectile is set to zero in which case the projectile doesn't drop at all (unless you shoot downwards of course). The only weapons with a gravity modifier of zero, that come to mind, are the guided missiles. Most weapons have a fairly low gravity modifier, decent muzzle velocities and lots of deviation which makes the drop hard to see. Bullets come out of the centre of the screen, for most weapons, and the crosshairs/ironsight have been aligned with the centre of the screen as well. I represented this on the lower part of the diagram. Both the point of aim (red line) and the path of the projectile (black line) originate from the same point.

    The whole "weapon X is zeroed to Y meters" in PR has nothing to do with real world zeroing. It's just an opinion that the drop is negligible up to that range.

    I hope I answered your question.
    THIS. This made it click finally for me.

    http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-...let-drops.html
    |TG-Irr| Dreadnought
    sigpic


    If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One --
    I am become Death, the shatterer of Worlds.

    -J. Robert Oppenheimer, lead scientist of Manhattan Project quoting Bhagavad Gita

  • #2
    Re: Bullet Drops

    Actually the diagram is also wrong, the bullet actually goes in a straight path up to the 'zeroed' point then starts to drop.

    Like so:
    Attached Files
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bullet Drops

      nedlands is wrong. There is no drop until the zero range, afterwards they follow a parabolic curve as shown in Snooggum's diagram.

      Grab an MG on an open map and start shooting, you can see where it starts to drop (300m)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bullet Drops

        sigh back to square 1.
        |TG-Irr| Dreadnought
        sigpic


        If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One --
        I am become Death, the shatterer of Worlds.

        -J. Robert Oppenheimer, lead scientist of Manhattan Project quoting Bhagavad Gita

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bullet Drops

          Nedlands has been working on the ballistics for PR for years (literally.)

          The tracers that you see in-game are considerably 'heavier' than the regular rounds that you fire (and cannot see their flight path.) They have a slower muzzle velocity, they decelerate faster and therefore drop faster. Deceleration of bullets occurs very strangely in BF2, leading to the perception that the bullets travel in a straight path, then drop to the ground.

          There is *some* drop, as Nedland's diagram for the MP5 zeroed at 100m shows. The drop at 100m is <5cm, which is less than two inches for those of you who might be metric-illiterate. Two inches at 100m is unnoticeable, but as I already stated, it drops significantly after that.

          I wouldn't be quick to call Nedlands incorrect if I haven't been spending hundreds of hours dicking around with vBF2 ballistics.

          -REad
          ;)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bullet Drops

            Originally posted by ReadMenace View Post
            Nedlands has been working on the ballistics for PR for years (literally.)

            The tracers that you see in-game are considerably 'heavier' than the regular rounds that you fire (and cannot see their flight path.) They have a slower muzzle velocity, they decelerate faster and therefore drop faster. Deceleration of bullets occurs very strangely in BF2, leading to the perception that the bullets travel in a straight path, then drop to the ground.

            There is *some* drop, as Nedland's diagram for the MP5 zeroed at 100m shows. The drop at 100m is <5cm, which is less than two inches for those of you who might be metric-illiterate. Two inches at 100m is unnoticeable, but as I already stated, it drops significantly after that.

            I wouldn't be quick to call Nedlands incorrect if I haven't been spending hundreds of hours dicking around with vBF2 ballistics.

            -REad
            Alright, his diagram is very misleading (due to the length and height being very disproportionate). You can treat the bullet as having no drop up the max effective range and then assume there is noticeable drop thereafter (as per my diagram).
            |TG-6th|Snooggums

            Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bullet Drops

              REad, if we have ballistics in PR already, explain to me all the talk of adding them? Is the gravity reduced or something like that making it less noticable?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bullet Drops

                From what i've read on the subject the ballistics we have in PR aren't realitistic and it will be ver hard to make them like that since tracer and ball rounds travel differently in BF2. Until it is figured out how to be done I think the compromise is a low bullet drop and make everything smaller so the racers aren't super misleading about where the rounds are.

                The way the drop is now its barely noticeable to me and at over 300 meters deviation is more noticeable on anything other than a sniper rifle than the drop.
                |TG-69th|chrisweb89


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bullet Drops

                  Originally posted by Sandiford View Post
                  REad, if we have ballistics in PR already, explain to me all the talk of adding them? Is the gravity reduced or something like that making it less noticable?
                  We have vBF2 ballistics. Nedlands has been (and I quote myself here,) "dicking around," with realistic ballistics. As has been stated several times in this thread, and innumerable times on the PR forums, tracers behave differently than standard rounds, postponing the implementation of ballistics from PR.

                  So, here is where I explain the talk of adding them:
                  The current ballistics -- as demonstrated by both Nedlands & Snoogums drawings -- are not realistic, so there is desire for them to be more realistic.

                  Understand now?

                  -REad
                  ;)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bullet Drops

                    Originally posted by ReadMenace View Post
                    We have vBF2 ballistics. Nedlands has been (and I quote myself here,) "dicking around," with realistic ballistics. As has been stated several times in this thread, and innumerable times on the PR forums, tracers behave differently than standard rounds, postponing the implementation of ballistics from PR.

                    So, here is where I explain the talk of adding them:
                    The current ballistics -- as demonstrated by both Nedlands & Snoogums drawings -- are not realistic, so there is desire for them to be more realistic.

                    Understand now?

                    -REad
                    Why is it difficult to make tracers and bullets the same? It would seem that would be simpler to code than the way it currently is.
                    |TG-Irr| Dreadnought
                    sigpic


                    If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One --
                    I am become Death, the shatterer of Worlds.

                    -J. Robert Oppenheimer, lead scientist of Manhattan Project quoting Bhagavad Gita

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bullet Drops

                      Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                      Why is it difficult to make tracers and bullets the same? It would seem that would be simpler to code than the way it currently is.
                      Hard coded. Tracers always move slower than ball. Similar to the RoF issue.

                      -REad
                      ;)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bullet Drops

                        Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                        Why is it difficult to make tracers and bullets the same? It would seem that would be simpler to code than the way it currently is.
                        Truly spoken from someone who doesn't know much about the BF2 engine.
                        Waldo II

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bullet Drops

                          Realistic Ballistics aren't linear. I.E. go along a straight line then drop. I think.

                          the Arma2 website has the realistic ballistics diagram I think.

                          Basically, the place that you call something zeroed would be the place the sights were designed to hit on that mark. Remembering that the sights and muzzle aren't the same.

                          In CQC situations, 50m away for example, with a rifle like the M4 you might find that the bullet will hit a bit lower than the sight. I think.

                          The M4A1, I think that's the carbine version? Or is that just the complete name of the M4, idk. Correct me if necessary. I think it's meant to be effective to 400m. So that should mean that the bullet trajectory, I think that's what it's called, crosses the sight line at 400m on that arc diagram? So that means in RL ranges below that aren't pinpoint on the sight, like PR? I've just confused myself.

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bullet Drops

                            Originally posted by ReadMenace View Post
                            Hard coded. Tracers always move slower than ball. Similar to the RoF issue.

                            -REad
                            Ah, I see, thanks.

                            Originally posted by Waldo_II View Post
                            Truly spoken from someone who doesn't know much about the BF2 engine.
                            I know a good bit about programming, just not about what is and isn't mod-able with BF2. It would be more complicated to produce bullets from one physics module then select other rounds to be tracers and come from a separate physics module. That is if you were starting from scratch. I figured modders had access to this and all it would mean to remove the difference would be to port everything through the same physics module. However, as was explained above, they don't.

                            To someone who did not know dev's don't have access, it looks like a simple case of removal of functionality and rerouting.
                            |TG-Irr| Dreadnought
                            sigpic


                            If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One --
                            I am become Death, the shatterer of Worlds.

                            -J. Robert Oppenheimer, lead scientist of Manhattan Project quoting Bhagavad Gita

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bullet Drops

                              Originally posted by ReadMenace View Post
                              We have vBF2 ballistics. Nedlands has been (and I quote myself here,) "dicking around," with realistic ballistics. As has been stated several times in this thread, and innumerable times on the PR forums, tracers behave differently than standard rounds, postponing the implementation of ballistics from PR.
                              Yeah, tracers start at 75% velocity, therefor dropping more per distance than normal rounds, I know that bit.

                              Originally posted by ReadMenace View Post
                              So, here is where I explain the talk of adding them:
                              The current ballistics -- as demonstrated by both Nedlands & Snoogums drawings -- are not realistic, so there is desire for them to be more realistic.

                              Understand now?
                              No, because no one has said what we have now. Is the gravity modifier reduced, or is it something else?

                              Comment

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